Not getting out coached....long.

#26
#26
I agree with the basis of this post. I think my main issue is that I'd still like to see/hear better reasoning as to why the QB and WR appear to be using two different playbooks.

There were at least 3 times last night that not only did the WRs run the wrong route, they didn't even look like they were expecting it to be a PASS PLAY. The one where Hancock got clocked by the 99 mph heater...everyone thought it was going to be a screen...except JC.

This team doesn't have the depth to compete with the big boys right now, but there is no reason it shouldn't have won 6 games (which it wont). I am a big CLK fan and will give him 3 full seasons to see us get to where we need to be, but I am afraid the reason we still see JC is because CLK sees that monstrous arm and those great physical tools in practice and is just waiting for that guy to appear during the game. It isn't going to happen.

This team isn't being outcoached in any aspect except what is going on with the QB/WR.

My biggest fear is that another 5-7 (or worse) season ends up costing us some recruits as the hype machine will not be working like it did last year.
 
#27
#27
Matthew_Sullivan said:
1. We have very limited talent. Think about this. A couple years ago we only brought in 3 four stars in, with one of em (at leashttp://www.volnation.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2765573t) already gone in EJAW. Fulmer let recruiting go and its obvious in many regions. (QB, OL, etc.)
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2005 class: Tennessee 4, Auburn 13, UCLA 26
2006 class: Tennessee 23, Auburn 10, UCLA 17
2007 class: Tennessee 3, Auburn 7, UCLA 40
2008 class: Tennessee 35, Auburn 20, UCLA 13
2009 class: Tennessee 10, Auburn 19, UCLA 14

Auburn might have a LITTLE more talent than us. We definitely have more talent than UCLA. Stop blaming it on talent.
 
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#28
#28
SpaceCoastVol said:
You forgot that CLK is an idiot for not putting in NS, in 3..2..1....
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Except for I don't think that. Unlike many fans I am very rational about my criticism. I am willing to criticize people I like, and I praise people I don't like. I see things how they are. I like Kiffin. I'm a Kiffin fan. That doesn't change the fact that he needs to figure some crap out. Especially special teams.
 
#29
#29
nbakerld said:
These are all related to coaching/discipline:

1 - We allowed 35 yards per kickoff return
2 - We missed a 39 yard field goal
3 - We had a 15 yard personal foul on a punt return
4 - We had a blocked XP
5 - We had a 27 yard punt
6 - We had a 36 yard punt
7 - Multiple drops by WR’s that got both hands on the ball.8 - There’s still constant confusion about pre-snap alignment, and routes.
9 - Brandon Warren yells at coaches on the sideline and goes back out there and lines up wrong on the goal line, costing us a delay of game penalty, and maybe the game because we settled for 3.9 - With the game (4:00 remaining) on the line we kickoff and we can only manage to get it to their 10 yard line, and then we allow them to go untouched (and unapproached) right up the middle again, for 52 yards
10 - The very next play Gerald Williams breaks outside contain and allows a 10 yard loss to turn into a 9 yard gain. This mistake pretty much ended the game.
11 - How many times did screens work against us? 6 times? 8 times? It was a lot.
12 - We let them off the hook on outside contain at least 5 times.
13 - Besides our 2 minute drill, we had 127 yards in the first 3 quarters. 41 of them came from the N-Gun, yet we only ran it once. I’m not saying it should be our primary offense, but do it until it doesn’t work. Nothing else was working.
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The coaches can't go out and do these things for the players. You can draw everything up perfectly, teach them technique 1000 times, but if the players are too inept/bull-headed/stupid/physically ungifted to do it, what is there left to do?
 
#31
#31
OHvol40 said:
The coaches can't go out and do these things for the players. You can draw everything up perfectly, teach them technique 1000 times, but if the players are too inept/bull-headed/stupid/physically ungifted to do it, what is there left to do?
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How come you can't blame those things on coaches. Our special teams have been atrocious all year. We have broken outside contain in critical moments several times this year. Both have been constant problems. If they aren't coaching problems, what are they?
 
#32
#32
nbakerld said:
Except for I don't think that. Unlike many fans I am very rational about my criticism. I am willing to criticize people I like, and I praise people I don't like. I see things how they are. I like Kiffin. I'm a Kiffin fan. That doesn't change the fact that he needs to figure some crap out. Especially special teams.
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That wasn't aimed at you... it was just my lame attempt at humor whilst awaiting the inevitable bashers to come out... Sorry. And FWIW, Kiffin was my desire when it was announced that PF was out. I think he is going to do great things here. If the fair weather fans will give him a chance.
 
#33
#33
SpaceCoastVol said:
That wasn't aimed at you... it was just my lame attempt at humor whilst awaiting the inevitable bashers to come out... Sorry. And FWIW, Kiffin was my desire when it was announced that PF was out. I think he is going to do great things here. If the fair weather fans will give him a chance.
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I don't know that criticizing a coach who doesn't win makes you fair weather. I thought fair weather was about the team. I'll follow the Vols every week. I'll root for Kiffin to do well no matter what. When he screws up, I'm going to point it out.

So many fans have crowned CLK as the next big thing in coaching, and they are totally fine with blaming everything on 20 year old kids, especially Crompton, but the second somebody criticizes our coach (who is a man, not a kid) all hell breaks loose.
 
#34
#34
OHvol40 said:
The coaches can't go out and do these things for the players. You can draw everything up perfectly, teach them technique 1000 times, but if the players are too inept/bull-headed/stupid/physically ungifted to do it, what is there left to do?
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nbakerld said:
How come you can't blame those things on coaches. Our special teams have been atrocious all year. We have broken outside contain in critical moments several times this year. Both have been constant problems. If they aren't coaching problems, what are they?
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I don't know what is hard to understand.:dunno:
 
#35
#35
I would like to credit Kiffin with the management of Crompton in this game. He didn't actually play that poorly. The box score doesn't show the missed throws, but it does show 259 yards, 2 TD's and no picks. If we had managed him like this against UCLA we would have won. So there have been some significant improvements.
 
#36
#36
OHvol40 said:
I don't know what is hard to understand.:dunno:
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Well, I'm not the one having trouble understanding. We have a player yell at a coach and then he goes out and lines up wrong possibly costing us the game, and you don't see this as a discipline problem? I don't know what is hard to understand.
 
#37
#37
23 4 stars or higher brought in by CPF from 2008-2006. (those would be his recruits that are still here. 10 of them have left the program already. So Phillip left lane with 13 four star or higher players and the rest 3 or lower. Over that time CPF brought in 5 five stars. Two of which are Walter Fisher and Kenny O Neal, JUCO players. And of those 23 4 stars, 11 never saw the field.

Kiffin in the less then one year he has been here has brought in 11 four stars or higher. 2 five stars including the number one player in the nation, which phillip never did. He already has 12 players committed for next year (not including Palardy, Micheal Taylor, and Fulton who I think should be 4 stars). So in two years (and not even a recruiting class complete) Kiffin has brought in equal talent with more room to add. and 9 of the four stars he has brought in have had playing time.

I know stars really dont matter, but i thought those were some interesting stats. You can see the difference in the recruiting already. And that shows what Fulmer brought in didnt exactly pan out.
 
#38
#38
nbakerld said:
2005 class: Tennessee 4, Auburn 13, UCLA 26
2006 class: Tennessee 23, Auburn 10, UCLA 17
2007 class: Tennessee 3, Auburn 7, UCLA 40
2008 class: Tennessee 35, Auburn 20, UCLA 13
2009 class: Tennessee 10, Auburn 19, UCLA 14

Auburn might have a LITTLE more talent than us. We definitely have more talent than UCLA. Stop blaming it on talent.
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A lot of the top players from those "excellent" classes are no longer with the team. We have/had former walk-ons at key positions (as hard as they may play). This is the talent mismatch.
 
#39
#39
nbakerld said:
How come you can't blame those things on coaches. Our special teams have been atrocious all year. We have broken outside contain in critical moments several times this year. Both have been constant problems. If they aren't coaching problems, what are they?
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They are called having a kicker that line drives kicks to the 15 yrd line problems.
 
#40
#40
VegasVol said:
Auburn has less recruited talent at OL, QB, RB, WR, DL, LB & DB. Every single position. They have not a single player on their entire starting roster that is considered a serious high-round NFL prospect. They can't even fill their scholarship spots at the moment. That freshman TB who gave us problems -- Kiffin didn't even offer him a scholarship. He was the 69th rated running back in the country. Excusing Kiffin's coaching failures as talent deficiencies is nonsense.
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It's not a question of stars and rankings. Guys can be highly rated and turn out to be terrible (Crompton). Auburn under Tubberville had better talent evaluation. This is something Fulmer and his staff slacked off on the last few years. By the way the Auburn players were making us miss on defense, I wouldn't say they were less talented. Any kid can be considered talented in the right system, and our system doesn't play to the strengths of some of the current guys we have. Bottom line, you're only as good a coach as you're players. And right now, both are suffering as a result.
 
#41
#41
agreed. Its gonna take a little time, I cant stand all the people freaking out already.

Cromton didnt play all that bad, yes he made a few mistakes. I will bet that if our veteran receivers would have caught those 6 or 7 passes that they dropped then the game could have played out different. About 3 of those dropped passes would have been first downs. Also, if Lincoln makes the field goal on first drive and that one extra point, then we win the game at the end.
 
#43
#43
Matthew_Sullivan said:
I have read alot of ppl saying we got out coached and i think its a load of crap.

1. We have very limited talent. Think about this. A couple years ago we only brought in 3 four stars in, with one of em (at least) already gone in EJAW. Fulmer let recruiting go and its obvious in many regions. (QB, OL, etc.)

2. There is only so much a coach can do. Once a player steps onto the field its all about the players. Kiffin could be the best coach in the world, but he cant play the game for Crompton (his new nickname is DII, where he sould be playing). Tonight, AU blitzed at CB leaving a WR all alone sprinting down the sideline. Literally everyone in the student section yalled and pointed. Crompton had plenty of time to scan the field too. He ended up throwing the ball across the middle for a small gain. It killed me and many others.

3. Talent, its obvious. We are serious lacking it. Depth is a serious issue and as the season goes on it will just get worse.

4. What you do if you were in CLK shoes. By all of what i have heard here on campus is that Crompton is in fact the best QB we have. I mean we have a good stable of RBs but we cant run the ball everytime. Idk about yall, but everytime Crompton goes up to throw my heart stops in fear. This goes back to coaches can only do so much.

5. Look at what talent CLK brought in and how it has performed so far. BB is going to be a stud. Everyone sees it. Nuke, you saw the explosiveness tonight. Kids a weapon, just needs to fix a couple of things on O first. Getting there tho. Janzen, future stud. Yes he is out of control some, but good gosh loads of talent. Greg king. He is already getting a solid amount of min and is playing pretty well imo. Montori Hughes. even tho this is CPF guy, O sculpted him into what he is now. You can see these guys can coach, you have to know where to look because there are some guys that are uncoachable on this team.

6. Look at the future recruits coming in. Palardy is a freak and so are the DL we have coming in. AND WE FINALLY HAVE A QB!!!! we are going to add a juco one too. yes, we need OL, but we are getting there.


in conclusion, when kiffin was hired we all said we would give him a couple of years to work his magic. BACK IT IP GUYS. I am going to give him his time to work with this team and get HIS PLAYERS IN HERE. Remember, he isnt playing with his guys. sorry for the vent....
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i'll agree on some points, but kiffin has not coached well at all in my opinion.
 
#44
#44
I was bored at work today and put together this chart. I think you need to look at 2005-2008 as a group and then add in 2009 to see where we are heading.

rankings.jpg



nbakerld said:
2005 class: Tennessee 4, Auburn 13, UCLA 26
2006 class: Tennessee 23, Auburn 10, UCLA 17
2007 class: Tennessee 3, Auburn 7, UCLA 40
2008 class: Tennessee 35, Auburn 20, UCLA 13
2009 class: Tennessee 10, Auburn 19, UCLA 14

Auburn might have a LITTLE more talent than us. We definitely have more talent than UCLA. Stop blaming it on talent.
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#45
#45
nbakerld said:
2005 class: Tennessee 4, Auburn 13, UCLA 26
2006 class: Tennessee 23, Auburn 10, UCLA 17
2007 class: Tennessee 3, Auburn 7, UCLA 40
2008 class: Tennessee 35, Auburn 20, UCLA 13
2009 class: Tennessee 10, Auburn 19, UCLA 14

Auburn might have a LITTLE more talent than us. We definitely have more talent than UCLA. Stop blaming it on talent.
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There is no way that you can draw that conclusion from looking at this. Why don't you go back and check out where all that "talent" that had us ranked so highly is now? If you look at the number of guys that were highly ranked and either were kicked off the team, did not qualify, transferred or have failed to come anywhere near their expectations, it makes those recruiting rankings look a little overblown...

2005 - Lamarcus Coker, Todd Cox, Raymond Henderson, Jonathan Crompton, Demetrice Morley, Andre Mathis, Adam Myers-White, Malcolm Rawls, Slick Shelley

2006 - Darius Myers (Only signed three four stars and a JUCO five star in Walter Fisher who was a solid contributor, but not a five star)

2007 - B.J. Coleman, Lennon Creer, Chris Donald, Donald Langley, Rolando Melancon, Kenny O'Neal, Ahmad Paige, Darris Sawtelle, Brent Vinson

2008 - E.J. Abrams-Ward (Only signed 4 four stars)

All of these guys are the ones who got us those rankings. This is 20 four and five stars that you can go ahead and throw out of your little equation. By my count, that is 50% of the elite talent that we signed over that time period.

Obviously you are a Kiffin hater, and that is fine, but when you get on here and talk about how we are not deficient of talent shows just how little you know about the game of football and what it takes to play it at a high level in the SEC. :banghead2:
 
#46
#46
nbakerld said:
2005 class: Tennessee 4, Auburn 13, UCLA 26
2006 class: Tennessee 23, Auburn 10, UCLA 17
2007 class: Tennessee 3, Auburn 7, UCLA 40
2008 class: Tennessee 35, Auburn 20, UCLA 13
2009 class: Tennessee 10, Auburn 19, UCLA 14

Auburn might have a LITTLE more talent than us. We definitely have more talent than UCLA. Stop blaming it on talent.
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How many of those highly touted high school superstars are still at Tennessee?
 
#47
#47
Less talent? Sure. I can see that against UF, Alabama and UGA. But Auburn? Seriously? Auburn's offense was worse than UT's last year but suddenly it's near the top in the country? Who did they add that's making the difference? The only freshman that's getting any meaningful playing time is McCalebb and he's not the sole reason for their success.

Coaching has 100% to do with both teams right now. Auburn actually lost more key starters than UT did last year so this idea of "lack of talent" as a worthy excuse is nothing but a straw man. They might have a more competent QB but UT has a more competent RB tandem. They may have a better overall offense in terms of line and WRs but UT has a better overall defense. Coaching, coaching, coaching.
 
#48
#48
rowsdower said:
Less talent? Sure. I can see that against UF, Alabama and UGA. But Auburn? Seriously? Auburn's offense was worse than UT's last year but suddenly it's near the top in the country? Who did they add that's making the difference? The only freshman that's getting any meaningful playing time is McCalebb and he's not the sole reason for their success.

Coaching has 100% to do with both teams right now. Auburn actually lost more key starters than UT did last year so this idea of "lack of talent" as a worthy excuse is nothing but a straw man. They might have a more competent QB but UT has a more competent RB tandem. They may have a better overall offense in terms of line and WRs but UT has a better overall defense. Coaching, coaching, coaching.
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Dr James Andrews should get some credit for fixing Todd's shoulder in the off-season. The difference in QBs is Todd was physically unable to throw the football.

Crompton is, well I don't know. I've never seen anything like it.
 
#49
#49
Its hard to come in and play with "leftovers" atleast at the main spot (QB). Tennessee has offensive talent, no doubt, yet the main man cannot deliver. You cant run the ball every down and every game and seriously expect to win every game. Once Tennessee gets a QB who can make throws to his teammates and not fumble snaps, and who is reliable and consistent. Tennessee can start talking National Championship. These coaches are great and no doubt they work their butt off to execute, but i think with limited offensive power, maybe some of the team have given up.... Jones, Warren, and looked like Hancock on saturday. Guess we will see within these next 3 games
 
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