Noah's Ark

#103
#103
hog88 said:
No, most Christians are civilized now.

When's the last time you heard a Christian strapping on a suicide vest?
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I'd call you a moron but I might get banned so I won't.

Majority of Islam is civilized. Look at what missionaries have done to "civilize" Africa with Christianity.
 
#104
#104
VOLatile said:
I'd call you a moron but I might get banned so I won't.

Majority of Islam is civilized. Look at what missionaries have done to "civilize" Africa with Christianity.
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How many buildings have they blown up?
Suicide bombers?
Oh how about stoning people to death?
 
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#105
#105
Obsessed said:
How many buildings have they blown up?
Suicide bombers?
Oh how about stoning people to death?
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Lots of wrong has been done in the name of God threw the ages. Some by true believers some by people using it to gain power. Painting a group of people with A broad brush is never a good idea.


Example.... A local atheist was arrested as a drug dealer. He was quote as saying he had done no wrong because he didn't recognize a God that was the basis for the common morality and laws. It would be wrong to assume all atheist were criminals and felt this way even if Say 30% or so agreed.
 
#106
#106
orangeslice13 said:
Lots of wrong has been done in the name of God threw the ages. Some by true believers some by people using it to gain power. Painting a group of people with A broad brush is never a good idea.


Example.... A local atheist was arrested as a drug dealer. He was quote as saying he had done no wrong because he didn't recognize a God that was the basis for the common morality and laws. It would be wrong to assume all atheist were criminals and felt this way even if Say 30% or so agreed.
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I'm with you slice.
 
#107
#107
VOLatile said:
I'd call you a moron but I might get banned so I won't.

Majority of Islam is civilized. Look at what missionaries have done to "civilize" Africa with Christianity.
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You calling someone a moron is the pot calling the kettle black.

Oops now I'm a racist.
 
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#110
#110
chatt-townVOL said:
The possibility that there were considerably less breeds of animal back then must have never crossed your mind.
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How considerably less? because even if 1% of the species that existed today existed back then(not true but just for example), they still couldn't fit on a stupid boat. I think you're terribly unaware of how many species of animals there are.
 
#111
#111
GoBigOrangeUT said:
It was said that two of every animal were on the ship. Last I checked, fish are animals.
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Genesis 6:20 -- Two of everything-- from the birds according to their kind, from the livestock according to their kinds, and from every animal that crawls on the ground according to their kind-- will come to you so that you can keep them alive.
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Genesis 7:8 -- From the clean animals, unclean animals, birds and everything that crawls on the ground...
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It was land animals. You actually believe God would have needed to build an aquarium to save fish from a flood?

And for the record, it was two of every "kind". Modern readers insert the idea of "species" into this. It's not in the original language. There are far fewer "kinds" (genera) from which all of the species on earth could have sprung from. From the dimensions of the ark, there were over 1.4 million cubic feet of space to house the animals. God divinely brought the animals to Noah. He didn't take a hunting expedition, they came to him. It is reasonable to think God would have also divinely helped with the animals' care.

The idea of a rectangular ark is not in the Bible. It has been smuggled in from the cube described in the Gilgamesh story of the flood.

:hi:
 
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#113
#113
MercyPercy said:
How considerably less? because even if 1% of the species that existed today existed back then(not true but just for example), they still couldn't fit on a stupid boat. I think you're terribly unaware of how many species of animals there are.
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Then you don't believe in evolution at all? I mean, evolution tells us that all the species of the world today had to come from a very small genetic stock. It seems that all of the species of the earth could also have come from a group of animals with a very large amount of genetic information already intact.

It's not about how many species existed then. It's about how much genetic stock needed to be on that ark to spring forth species in the future.

And that stupid boat was really big. :)
 
#114
#114
GoBigOrangeUT said:
Then why would he say "two of EVERY animal"?

Then again, just like most Christians, you read it how you want to fit your beliefs.
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Or, like a non-Christian, you DON'T actually read it how you want it to fit your beliefs. It never said two of every animal.
 
#116
#116
GoBigOrangeUT said:
We have ways to detect Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, which amazingly can see back to the first few million years of the universe, if not even earlier.
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GoBigOrangeUT said:
Burden of proof is not on me. Who are we to decide if God was implying anything? I wasn't there. Pretty sure you weren't. So why is it okay to assume what he meant?
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Amazing. It's OK to assume what happened billions of years ago, but... lol Inferences about radiation is OK to interpret as "tangible" "evidence", but you haven't even read the Biblical account, misquote it, and write it off.

You're a trip, friend.
 
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#118
#118
GoBigOrangeUT said:
I get what you're saying. Faith is just to hard for me to comprehend. I can fathom 14.5 billion years. I can fathom light years. I can fathom evolution.
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You are expressing an incredible amount of faith with every statement above.

GoBigOrangeUT said:
I can't fathom an all-knowing sky dweller who has been around longer than time itself. What made God randomly decide to create Earth? If he has been around an infinite amount of time, what did he do before Earth? These are the questions that wrack my brain.
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You don't seem to have a very scientific mind. Science is about investigating just because you want to answer questions. It's not about writing off possibilities because you don't have them.
 
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#119
#119
Orange_Crush said:
Then you don't believe in evolution at all? I mean, evolution tells us that all the species of the world today had to come from a very small genetic stock. It seems that all of the species of the earth could also have come from a group of animals with a very large amount of genetic information already intact.

It's not about how many species existed then. It's about how much genetic stock needed to be on that ark to spring forth species in the future.

And that stupid boat was really big. :)
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Lol, sounds like you don't understand evolution. It happens over huge amounts of time, your theory that all our modern animals evolved from the few on this imaginary boat needs a few million years, not a few thousand.
 
#120
#120
MercyPercy said:
Lol, sounds like you don't understand evolution. It happens over huge amounts of time, your theory that all our modern animals evolved from the few on this imaginary boat needs a few million years, not a few thousand.
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Yet we now have ligers (lion/tigers) in one generation
 
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#121
#121
MercyPercy said:
Lol, sounds like you don't understand evolution. It happens over huge amounts of time, your theory that all our modern animals evolved from the few on this imaginary boat needs a few million years, not a few thousand.
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It sounds like you are equivocating. It also sounds like you are trying to force my theory into the framework of your theory. It's a common tactic/mistake (depending on motive vs. understanding).

Which evolution are we talking about? NeoDarwinian evolution that says that every species of life evolved from non-living matter, and has to increase genetic information randomly as it goes? I would see that as all but impossible, but will at least grant that as time consuming.

Are we talking about "Punctuated Equilibrium" (the hopeful monster theory) that says that evolution actually happens very rapidly after times of evolutionary dormancy (in an effort to explain how bare the fossil record is)?

Are we talking about "evolution", as used by naturalists as proof as the above definitions? By this, I mean, accumulation of small changes that happen quickly enough to be observed, but actually only produce changes within a "kind"? (It would have to happen "quickly", by definition, since we can observe them within generations.)

It would take a long time for all life to randomly spring from nothing at the time of the ark, randomly creating genetic information as it goes.

It would take far less time for multiple "kinds" full of varied, preexisting genetic information, to spread out after the flood. i.e. Some base stock of genetically diverse horses to become zebras, horses, ponies, etc...
 
#122
#122
MercyPercy said:
Lol, sounds like you don't understand evolution. It happens over huge amounts of time, your theory that all our modern animals evolved from the few on this imaginary boat needs a few million years, not a few thousand.
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And again... Just to emphasize... It would not take nearly as long if all of the needed genetic information was already there in the base "kinds", and all that needed to happen was series of accumulated small changes that happen within the kind. You don't need sea animals turning into a horse. You need a horse turning into several kinds of horses-- and the genetic information to do so is already there.
 
#125
#125
chatt-townVOL said:
A couple of questions since I rarely (in my quest to become a very well-rounded apologist) run into Christians who believe in evolution.

To what extent do you believe in evolution? As in do you accept macroevolution? Or do you believe it mostly takes place on a small scale?

And do you believe it is the explanation of the origin of man, or just the explanation of the diversities and similarities of different animals?
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I believe in macro evolution and it's the origin of man. I don't necessarily believe Adam and Eve is a literal tale. If I believe my God is bigger than I can imagine (I do) it shouldn't be hard to believe that he put systems in place such as evolution. That doesn't take away from the miracle of life to me. It adds to it.
 
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