NO Standards whatsoever..???!!!! WTF..?

[Sarms58]

It goes beyond that. If there are 100 Division 1 Universities, and they all "agree" to pay a football coach $4 million dollars, it doesn't matter how you evaluate candidates. You don't get to pick. You can only pick if you pay 20 million. once everybody pays 20 million, you can only pick if you pay 100 million. The overall quality of football is not affected. Only the cost is affected. Texas A&M might be a little better; Florida State might be a little worse. $100 million changed hands.

Regardless of what you pay, if you don’t do a good job in the selection process you’re doomed to repeat it (and end up like we have been - paying multiple coaches simultaneously because of poor choices) .

 

[IndianaVol]

There are two parts to the answer.

The first, and easier, part is: supply and demand. The current market demands that, to be competitive in hiring a good coach, schools and NFL franchises have to throw the bank at him. Generally speaking, the supply of $$ is no problem at the top end of the sport, so buyers of coaching staff are willing to play along. And that bank they throw the coach's way better include a golden parachute. If they don't spend that much on him, someone else will.

But that part doesn't really get to the root of your question. You know that's how it is now. But what you're really asking is how did we get to this point? And I have no idea of any of the particulars. I mean, we can easily guess that it happened incrementally. One coach and his agent, out of nowhere, said: I'd like to be guaranteed income even after I leave the job, to cover me until I find a new one. And the school or NFL front office wanted him bad enough to agree. And then other agents and coaches heard about that contract and started asking for the same. And the schools and front offices, they had TONS, I mean tons, of dollars flowing in from the popularity of the sport, so they saw no good reason not to go with the trend.

So we have a general idea of how it must've evolved, but I've never seen any article or story with a detailed breakdown of the evolution over time. It could be a good read (or, with the wrong writer, it could be like reading tax returns). Someone good should research and write it.

Anyway, at the end of the day, it's just supply and demand. And when it comes to coaches, it's a sellers' market these days.

p.s. Most of those CEOs you mention, whose continued employment is tied to performance metrics (just like coaches, btw), they also have golden parachutes. This practice is not unique to sports, and didn't even start there. That football coach who did it first, he probably got the idea from some CEO.

The floor man at Walmart is an at-will employee with no contract, and can be fired at will (as long as it doesn’t violate discrimination laws).

A head coach is a contractual employee. The contract controls termination.

Second guy nailed it - it's all supply and demand. There's a far fewer head coach candidates out there than floor sweepers.
Also, you do need to understand that difference between 'average joe' and CEO (i.e. at-will versus contractual employees - most companies refer to them as exempt and non-exempt).

FWIW - I became employed by a large medical device company a few years ago.
The CEO at that time had a stellar contract paying multiple millions a year with guaranteed bonuses and stock options to boot, even if he was replaced.
Problem was that the company was in a bit of trouble with the FDA and had acquired another large company that was suffering and leveraged their stock down to about $5 a share from a typical ~$40 a share price.
The guy was replaced in about a year or so and the Wall Street Journal did a piece - based on a 40 hour work week and adding his bonus and severance package, the company ended up paying the guy close to $5,000 an hour !!!

 

[Volunteer_Kirby]

This is not necessarily directed at our current coach, not even at our last one......but it's a question that puzzles me.
SEC football is a BIG business. MILLIONS of dollars are involved, hundreds of lives are directly affected by the success or failure of a program. Out here in the real world...you know, the world with 2 brain cells that are smart enough to talk to each other and are not blinded by a bunch of "Rah-Rah alma-mater B.S." when a corporation hires a CEO with contractual GUARANTEES of compensation....guess what children...??? Those guarantees are tied to PERFORMANCE marks that the incoming CEO has to hit, or the guarantees go away, and (typically...) SO DOES HE.
We have all read about how much our LAST failed coach continued to collect after being relieved. JP's future as head football coach may soon be on the table because he has failed...and that conversation always includes the massive $$$$ he will be collecting from the University for his failure. Are there NO standards whatsoever..??
What am I missing here..??

Wow such grammar....terrypedigo would be proud

 

[utvols74]

I remember the days when ABC broadcast one Saturday afternoon college football game - one. If your team made it to prime time (i.e. When UT played Auburn - with Bo Jackson - and Tony Robinson lit it up), it was a big deal and it was quite special. It created memories.

Now, just like everything else in our society, we have more choices than we are even aware of. Not much is special.

The problem is, TV advertising has paid colleges/conferences into the $100 of millions. Has that money helped football? No. In reality and ironically, it has cheapened it.

 

[37620VOL]

I'm 51, and I
understand what a contract is: what I cant understand is what idiot agreed to this First type of contract to where it didn't matter if you succeeded or not.... you are guaranteed profit.

You may be too old to remember common sense

Here's the bottom line. Try to hire a coach or elite executive without a golden parachute and see what quality of hire you get.

Also consider that the parachute and buyout are usually set at comparable amounts. We made a mistake by setting Kiffin's too low.

 

[butchna]

I remember the days when ABC broadcast one Saturday afternoon college football game - one. If your team made it to prime time (i.e. When UT played Auburn - with Bo Jackson - and Tony Robinson lit it up), it was a big deal and it was quite special. It created memories.

Now, just like everything else in our society, we have more choices than we are even aware of. Not much is special.

The problem is, TV advertising has paid colleges/conferences into the $100 of millions. Has that money helped football? No. In reality and ironically, it has cheapened it.

From someone who remembers? It sucked when there was a game you were interested in and OTHERS decided it wasn’t “special” enough. And that was back in the day you had to hope the local news would announce the score that evening. No such thing as too much product. It’s just now we have even more outlets to bitch about stuff.

 

[Tin Man]

Sometimes you get a Lame Kitten. Sometimes you get a Botch Jones. Once in a few lifetimes, you get a Robert Neyland. If you’re lucky, you get a Johnny Majors and inherit a Phil Fulmer.

 

[chuckb1448]

Here's the bottom line. Try to hire a coach or elite executive without a golden parachute and see what quality of hire you get.

Also consider that the parachute and buyout are usually set at comparable amounts. We made a mistake by setting Kiffin's too low.

At this point in the game I completely understand what you said, my point Was: whoever the FIRST employer that agreed to a contract of this type is a Nut! We all know most are set up this way now......

 

[Devo182]

Lol because CEOs don't get massive severance packages or golden parachutes lmao.

The lady behind BofA's department that was auto approving unrequested credit card accounts walked away with tens of millions.

Miss me with this analogy. Everybody can get fired. And they all walk away with millions. It's called leverage and lawyers.

If the floor guy at Wal Mart could leverage his own contract and afford lawyers, he would too. But his demand is not there...

 

[fifties fan]

College football has been slow rolled into what it is today, and OP, your rant brought it home. I come from a time, when the coaches were paid about the same as any other faculty member. The games were fun and it was just a pick up game between two rival colleges. Most players had no NFL asperations.

Now its no longer pure. It's just a friggin' game and always has been, but now it's big business. You aren't wrong about that. But is it better? Is a coach supposed to be a CEO?
I'm Almost to the point of getting alienated from the whole thing.

If you aren't blinded by some of the Rah Rah alma mater B.S., I would suggest the NFL might be a better outlet for fandom. To me, it does matter to have a connection with the school. But that's just me.

View attachment 320464

Just to the left of this photo is the old scoreboard. Remind me please, wasn't the clock on that board analog rather than digital?

 

[rusty11]

It's starting to look like a lot of coaches are just like any regular person looking for a good last job and retirement. I'm starting to think finding an up and comer or winning coach at a lower level and paying him 1 million or so to start is the future. Lots of incentives built in for success though. It's like paying these dip-**** CEOs 300 million a year and having the company go bankrupt in 3 years. Only one winner there. God help us it's the world we live in I guess. It needs to start over somehow, some way.

 

[FlyFishnVol]

This is not necessarily directed at our current coach, not even at our last one......but it's a question that puzzles me.
SEC football is a BIG business. MILLIONS of dollars are involved, hundreds of lives are directly affected by the success or failure of a program. Out here in the real world...you know, the world with 2 brain cells that are smart enough to talk to each other and are not blinded by a bunch of "Rah-Rah alma-mater B.S." when a corporation hires a CEO with contractual GUARANTEES of compensation....guess what children...??? Those guarantees are tied to PERFORMANCE marks that the incoming CEO has to hit, or the guarantees go away, and (typically...) SO DOES HE.
We have all read about how much our LAST failed coach continued to collect after being relieved. JP's future as head football coach may soon be on the table because he has failed...and that conversation always includes the massive $$$$ he will be collecting from the University for his failure. Are there NO standards whatsoever..??
What am I missing here..??

I know you think there is a problem here, and if you close your eyes, and stand next to this POD, I mean plant, it will all go away and everything will be fine. These are not the androids you are looking for.....move along these are not the androids we are looking for.

 

[FlyFishnVol]

This is not necessarily directed at our current coach, not even at our last one......but it's a question that puzzles me.
SEC football is a BIG business. MILLIONS of dollars are involved, hundreds of lives are directly affected by the success or failure of a program. Out here in the real world...you know, the world with 2 brain cells that are smart enough to talk to each other and are not blinded by a bunch of "Rah-Rah alma-mater B.S." when a corporation hires a CEO with contractual GUARANTEES of compensation....guess what children...??? Those guarantees are tied to PERFORMANCE marks that the incoming CEO has to hit, or the guarantees go away, and (typically...) SO DOES HE.
We have all read about how much our LAST failed coach continued to collect after being relieved. JP's future as head football coach may soon be on the table because he has failed...and that conversation always includes the massive $$$$ he will be collecting from the University for his failure. Are there NO standards whatsoever..??
What am I missing here..??

 

[DaddyChad]

You know I remember when Saban told Bama no repeatedly. They kept after him and gave him what it took to get him there. Idk who is available other than Meyer but Tennessee needs to load up the brinks truck and park it on someone’s doorstep until they accept the job.

I would make sure the university was in a position financially to make a good hire. We seem to always be over a barrel in hiring a replacement.

 

[Frozevol]

De Beers has a stranglehold on the coach supply. Pruitt was a diamond in the rough.[/QUOTE
I see a lot of “rough” but where’s the diamond?

 

[tennrich1]

I've never understood how you fail then get fired and keep getting paid. Does the floor man at Walmart who slacks and gets fired hear his boss say "we are letting you go Hoss, the floors look like cow patties.... by the way.... we will pay you for the remainder of this year and may as well toss 2021 in there as well."

He does if he's shrewd enough to negotiate a contract for sweeping floors at Walmart and is able to write in that clause. But, now this is just a guess, the floor sweeper at WM isn't under much of a binding contract. Could be woefully wrong about that though.

 

[Devo182]

It goes beyond that. If there are 100 Division 1 Universities, and they all "agree" to pay a football coach $4 million dollars, it doesn't matter how you evaluate candidates. You don't get to pick. You can only pick if you pay 20 million. once everybody pays 20 million, you can only pick if you pay 100 million. The overall quality of football is not affected. Only the cost is affected. Texas A&M might be a little better; Florida State might be a little worse. $100 million changed hands.

Bingo. This "he's getting paid x dollars therefore he should win more" is such a moot point when everyone pays millions and, like you said, it only affects market prices...it doesn't make any coach a lick better than if they all got paid a quarter of what they are now. All relevant and the talent pool is unaffected.

 

[ArdentVol]

College football has been slow rolled into what it is today, and OP, your rant brought it home. I come from a time, when the coaches were paid about the same as any other faculty member. The games were fun and it was just a pick up game between two rival colleges. Most players had no NFL asperations.

Now its no longer pure. It's just a friggin' game and always has been, but now it's big business. You aren't wrong about that. But is it better? Is a coach supposed to be a CEO?
I'm Almost to the point of getting alienated from the whole thing.

If you aren't blinded by some of the Rah Rah alma mater B.S., I would suggest the NFL might be a better outlet for fandom. To me, it does matter to have a connection with the school. But that's just me.

View attachment 320464

what year is this?
seems like i've seen it before or was in neyland when it was taken

 

[Smokey X]

From someone who remembers? It sucked when there was a game you were interested in and OTHERS decided it wasn’t “special” enough. And that was back in the day you had to hope the local news would announce the score that evening. No such thing as too much product. It’s just now we have even more outlets to bitch about stuff.

True, but...that was also when most of us gained our lifetime appreciation for the likes of John Ward and Bill Anderson by listening on the transistor radio. And there were some great newspaper guys like Marvin West and Tom Siler who devoted pages in the Sunday paper where they graphically laid out the entire game play by play. I was too young and dumb to know it wasn't great.

 

[butchna]

True, but...that was also when most of us gained our lifetime appreciation for the likes of John Ward and Bill Anderson by listening on the transistor radio. And there were some great newspaper guys like Marvin West and Tom Siler who devoted pages in the Sunday paper where they graphically laid out the entire game play by play. I was too young and dumb to know it wasn't great.

It was great...because of Ward. Now we’d be listening to Kesling. When TBS started showing SEC games, I didn’t suffer one bit back then and we had TV packages during the championship run. Anyone feel cheated?

 

[livefaith]

If you think the cost of buyouts is high. Then wait till you guys a coach without one.

 

[hUTch2002]

It’s a bad problem, and I don’t know how they’ll ever get it under control. Paying people more money doesn’t make them better. If you’re the only school paying 4 million dollars, then yes, you can pick Saban. If everybody pays 4 million, you get nothing. But if you pay Butch Jones 4 million dollars, he’s still the same person. It does nothing to increase the supply at all; these guys aren’t qualified to hold a job other than gym teacher. It’s just the end result of everybody escalating in response To what Alabama and Michigan paid their coaches to “get who they want”.

I remember when everyone freaked out because Saban got paid $4M. No one was even close to that amount at the time. Now that’s about average for the SEC. It’s amazing how the salaries have more than doubled in under 15 years.

 

[kbear01]

We fired coaches without having a high quality inventory of coaches to choose from. Then, we gambled, on an maverick, named Kiffin, and his NFL staff. After he bailed, we went cheap. That worked out so well, that we went cheap a second time. Then, after the biggest debacle of a coaching search in history, Fulmer stepped in, and grabbed the first decent SEC type coach, available, and nailed him down. We can't fire Pruitt, until there is a quality replacement available and agreeable. Who knows? Maybe CJP will turn it around, before that happens.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

If you're not sure about your coach, you give them an extension that lowers the buyout. The extension is good for recruiting, shows continuity. The lower buyout makes it easier to fire coach for bad performance.

That's essentially what we did with Holly Warlick, we extended her contract and lowered the buyout. It made it much easier to fire her the next season.

 

[ptcarter]

what year is this?
seems like i've seen it before or was in neyland when it was taken

Not sure the year.. I've posted it a few times. I know there are some new folks haven't seen it and would be amazed. I'm thinking its in the '50s against Kentucky (due to the snow and being the end of the season) but can't say. Might be worth looking up in the yearbook archive UT has (google UT digital archive).