NO Standards whatsoever..???!!!! WTF..?

[guido4198]

This is not necessarily directed at our current coach, not even at our last one......but it's a question that puzzles me.
SEC football is a BIG business. MILLIONS of dollars are involved, hundreds of lives are directly affected by the success or failure of a program. Out here in the real world...you know, the world with 2 brain cells that are smart enough to talk to each other and are not blinded by a bunch of "Rah-Rah alma-mater B.S." when a corporation hires a CEO with contractual GUARANTEES of compensation....guess what children...??? Those guarantees are tied to PERFORMANCE marks that the incoming CEO has to hit, or the guarantees go away, and (typically...) SO DOES HE.
We have all read about how much our LAST failed coach continued to collect after being relieved. JP's future as head football coach may soon be on the table because he has failed...and that conversation always includes the massive $$$$ he will be collecting from the University for his failure. Are there NO standards whatsoever..??
What am I missing here..??

 

[chuckb1448]

I've never understood how you fail then get fired and keep getting paid. Does the floor man at Walmart who slacks and gets fired hear his boss say "we are letting you go Hoss, the floors look like cow patties.... by the way.... we will pay you for the remainder of this year and may as well toss 2021 in there as well."

 

[VFL-82-JP]

There are two parts to the answer.

The first, and easier, part is: supply and demand. The current market demands that, to be competitive in hiring a good coach, schools and NFL franchises have to throw the bank at him. Generally speaking, the supply of $$ is no problem at the top end of the sport, so buyers of coaching staff are willing to play along. And that bank they throw the coach's way better include a golden parachute. If they don't spend that much on him, someone else will.

But that part doesn't really get to the root of your question. You know that's how it is now. But what you're really asking is how did we get to this point? And I have no idea of any of the particulars. I mean, we can easily guess that it happened incrementally. One coach and his agent, out of nowhere, said: I'd like to be guaranteed income even after I leave the job, to cover me until I find a new one. And the school or NFL front office wanted him bad enough to agree. And then other agents and coaches heard about that contract and started asking for the same. And the schools and front offices, they had TONS, I mean tons, of dollars flowing in from the popularity of the sport, so they saw no good reason not to go with the trend.

So we have a general idea of how it must've evolved, but I've never seen any article or story with a detailed breakdown of the evolution over time. It could be a good read (or, with the wrong writer, it could be like reading tax returns). Someone good should research and write it.

Anyway, at the end of the day, it's just supply and demand. And when it comes to coaches, it's a sellers' market these days.

p.s. Most of those CEOs you mention, whose continued employment is tied to performance metrics (just like coaches, btw), they also have golden parachutes. This practice is not unique to sports, and didn't even start there. That football coach who did it first, he probably got the idea from some CEO.

 

[Firebirdparts]

It’s a bad problem, and I don’t know how they’ll ever get it under control. Paying people more money doesn’t make them better. If you’re the only school paying 4 million dollars, then yes, you can pick Saban. If everybody pays 4 million, you get nothing. But if you pay Butch Jones 4 million dollars, he’s still the same person. It does nothing to increase the supply at all; these guys aren’t qualified to hold a job other than gym teacher. It’s just the end result of everybody escalating in response To what Alabama and Michigan paid their coaches to “get who they want”.

 

[GreveHaller]

I've never understood how you fail then get fired and keep getting paid. Does the floor man at Walmart who slacks and gets fired hear his boss say "we are letting you go Hoss, the floors look like cow patties.... by the way.... we will pay you for the remainder of this year and may as well toss 2021 in there as well."

you must be young

Once you get a 'real' job you'll understand. Its called a contract. A simple google search will teach alot

 

[Sarms58]

you must be young

Once you get a 'real' job you'll understand. Its called a contract. A simple google search will teach alot

True and while it’s very common for senior managers and executives to have performance metrics in their contract which determine their compensation it’s also very common to have pre-determined severance pay in the event the company wants to go another direction. You would have a hard time recruiting and hiring someone with proven leadership skills without these items in the contract. Hiring an executive or a head coach is much different than hiring a clerk or a water boy.

 

[Sarms58]

It’s a bad problem, and I don’t know how they’ll ever get it under control. Paying people more money doesn’t make them better. If you’re the only school paying 4 million dollars, then yes, you can pick Saban. If everybody pays 4 million, you get nothing. But if you pay Butch Jones 4 million dollars, he’s still the same person. It does nothing to increase the supply at all; these guys aren’t qualified to hold a job other than gym teacher. It’s just the end result of everybody escalating in response To what Alabama and Michigan paid their coaches to “get who they want”.

Yea, the idea is to pay more money to get better quality but if you don’t do a good job evaluating candidates you end up paying way too much for mediocre coaches. When you have to fire a coach after just a few seasons, the board should look long and hard at firing the AD who made the selection. SEC football is big business and as in any business, you can’t succeed with leadership that makes poor decision.

 

[ETCvol4life]

There are two parts to the answer.

The first, and easier, part is: supply and demand. The current market demands that, to be competitive in hiring a good coach, schools and NFL franchises have to throw the bank at him. Generally speaking, the supply of $$ is no problem at the top end of the sport, so buyers of coaching staff are willing to play along. And that bank they throw the coach's way better include a golden parachute. If they don't spend that much on him, someone else will.

But that part doesn't really get to the root of your question. You know that's how it is now. But what you're really asking is how did we get to this place where that's the norm, the cost of business? And I have no idea of any of the particulars. I mean, we can easily guess that it happened incrementally. One coach and his agent, out of nowhere, said: I'd like to be guaranteed income even after I leave the job, to cover me until I find a new one. And the school or NFL front office wanted him bad enough to agree. And then other agents and coaches heard about that contract and started asking for the same. And the schools and front offices, they had TONS, I mean tons, of dollars flowing in from the popularity of the sport, so they saw no good reason not to go with the trend.

So we have a general idea of how it must've evolved, but I've never seen any article or story with a detailed breakdown of the evolution over time. It could be a good read (or, with the wrong writer, it could be like reading tax returns), someone good should research and write it.

Anyway, at the end of the day, it's just supply and demand. And when it comes to coaches, it's a sellers' market these days.

p.s. Most of those CEOs you mention, whose continued employment is tied to performance metrics (just like coaches, btw), they also have golden parachutes. This practice is not unique to sports, and didn't even start there. That football coach who did it first, he probably got the idea from some CEO.

Very well put!!!!!

 

[JohnWardForever]

you must be young

Once you get a 'real' job you'll understand. Its called a contract. A simple google search will teach alot

Oh I think He understands about Contracts; He just doesn't understand the INSANITY of paying someone for doing a lousy job; and rewarding Failure. That's how you keep getting what you been getting. Pruitt's problem is surrounding himself with his Buddies; instead of finding the Best available---IMO. What did the new (First Time) HC at Arkie do? Went out and hired a Former Head Coach to Help Him; and they had no History together. That move will pay dividends on Saturday.

 

[Boca Vol]

It’s a bad problem, and I don’t know how they’ll ever get it under control. Paying people more money doesn’t make them better. If you’re the only school paying 4 million dollars, then yes, you can pick Saban. If everybody pays 4 million, you get nothing. But if you pay Butch Jones 4 million dollars, he’s still the same person. It does nothing to increase the supply at all; these guys aren’t qualified to hold a job other than gym teacher. It’s just the end result of everybody escalating in response To what Alabama and Michigan paid their coaches to “get who they want”.

Nailed it!

What you pay for something doesn't always equate to what it is worth. Oftentimes it is not.

A few years ago when Saban was the only coach making "crazy" money I said it could be argued he is underpaid for what he delivers on an annual basis. He is a rarity, considering he does it in the SEC.

 

[TheDeeble]

There's enough money and jobs available that the in demand coaches can make buyout requests in their contract. Especially when they're considering taking over a struggling program that is almost at dumpster fire levels. It's not a quick rebuild. It will take years. A buyout gives that coach protection from an impatient AD & fanbase. His reputation will be tarnished as a head coach if he gets fired early on. Either way it's a contract for x years. If the school wants to end it early they pay a pre-negotiated amount.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

It’s a bad problem, and I don’t know how they’ll ever get it under control. Paying people more money doesn’t make them better. If you’re the only school paying 4 million dollars, then yes, you can pick Saban. If everybody pays 4 million, you get nothing. But if you pay Butch Jones 4 million dollars, he’s still the same person. It does nothing to increase the supply at all; these guys aren’t qualified to hold a job other than gym teacher. It’s just the end result of everybody escalating in response To what Alabama and Michigan paid their coaches to “get who they want”.

I think the bubble will eventually burst. I don't think the current model is sustainable long term.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Oh I think He understands about Contracts; He just doesn't understand the INSANITY of paying someone for doing a lousy job; and rewarding Failure. That's how you keep getting what you been getting. Pruitt's problem is surrounding himself with his Buddies; instead of finding the Best available---IMO. What did the new (First Time) HC at Arkie do? Went out and hired a Former Head Coach to Help Him; and they had no History together. That move will pay dividends on Saturday.

Pruitt hires buddies because he has a reputation for being abrasive and stubborn. That limits the assistant coaching pool since many people won't leave a job to take a job for a guy with that reputation, especially when that guy has no HC track record at all. That's why we have a DC with no DC experience. That's why both coordinators Pruitt's first year had no P5 coordinating experience. That's why we hired 2 coaches with no P5 assistant experience before this year. If you look at the most well thought of guys on the staff from a national perspective (Graham, Chaney, Tee), they all had UT ties before Pruitt.

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

De Beers has a stranglehold on the coach supply. Pruitt was a diamond in the rough.

 

[savannahfan]

There are two parts to the answer.

The first, and easier, part is: supply and demand. The current market demands that, to be competitive in hiring a good coach, schools and NFL franchises have to throw the bank at him. Generally speaking, the supply of $$ is no problem at the top end of the sport, so buyers of coaching staff are willing to play along. And that bank they throw the coach's way better include a golden parachute. If they don't spend that much on him, someone else will.

But that part doesn't really get to the root of your question. You know that's how it is now. But what you're really asking is how did we get to this place where that's the norm, the cost of business? And I have no idea of any of the particulars. I mean, we can easily guess that it happened incrementally. One coach and his agent, out of nowhere, said: I'd like to be guaranteed income even after I leave the job, to cover me until I find a new one. And the school or NFL front office wanted him bad enough to agree. And then other agents and coaches heard about that contract and started asking for the same. And the schools and front offices, they had TONS, I mean tons, of dollars flowing in from the popularity of the sport, so they saw no good reason not to go with the trend.

So we have a general idea of how it must've evolved, but I've never seen any article or story with a detailed breakdown of the evolution over time. It could be a good read (or, with the wrong writer, it could be like reading tax returns), someone good should research and write it.

Anyway, at the end of the day, it's just supply and demand. And when it comes to coaches, it's a sellers' market these days.

p.s. Most of those CEOs you mention, whose continued employment is tied to performance metrics (just like coaches, btw), they also have golden parachutes. This practice is not unique to sports, and didn't even start there. That football coach who did it first, he probably got the idea from some CEO.

Your post is "right on". BUT your p.s. is the prefect summation for the thread.

 

[ptcarter]

. Out here in the real world...you know, the world with 2 brain cells that are smart enough to talk to each other and are not blinded by a bunch of "Rah-Rah alma-mater B.S."

College football has been slow rolled into what it is today, and OP, your rant brought it home. I come from a time, when the coaches were paid about the same as any other faculty member. The games were fun and it was just a pick up game between two rival colleges. Most players had no NFL asperations.

Now its no longer pure. It's just a friggin' game and always has been, but now it's big business. You aren't wrong about that. But is it better? Is a coach supposed to be a CEO?
I'm Almost to the point of getting alienated from the whole thing.

If you aren't blinded by some of the Rah Rah alma mater B.S., I would suggest the NFL might be a better outlet for fandom. To me, it does matter to have a connection with the school. But that's just me.

 

[Firebirdparts]

Yea, the idea is to pay more money to get better quality but if you don’t do a good job evaluating candidates you end up paying way too much for mediocre coaches..

It goes beyond that. If there are 100 Division 1 Universities, and they all "agree" to pay a football coach $4 million dollars, it doesn't matter how you evaluate candidates. You don't get to pick. You can only pick if you pay 20 million. once everybody pays 20 million, you can only pick if you pay 100 million. The overall quality of football is not affected. Only the cost is affected. Texas A&M might be a little better; Florida State might be a little worse. $100 million changed hands.

 

[ArmchairQB]

College football has been slow rolled into what it is today, and OP, your rant brought it home. I come from a time, when the coaches were paid about the same as any other faculty member. The games were fun and it was just a pick up game between two rival colleges. Most players had no NFL asperations.

Now its no longer pure. It's just a friggin' game and always has been, but now it's big business. You aren't wrong about that. But is it better? Is a coach supposed to be a CEO?
I'm Almost to the point of getting alienated from the whole thing.

If you aren't blinded by some of the Rah Rah alma mater B.S., I would suggest the NFL might be a better outlet for fandom. To me, it does matter to have a connection with the school. But that's just me.

View attachment 320464

That's a really cool pic! Is that an actual wedding going on as part of the day? Also, when was the last time there was snow on the ground for a home game? A lot going on in that picture.

 

[VolArmy74]

We have had incompetent administrations for a long time. With Dickey it was not caring at all about basketball. Since then we've been in a constant loop of overpaying football coaches on the back end. Giving Fulmer and unnecessary raise/extension right before having to fire him was strike one. Then the fiasco of Dooley/Butch/Pruitt. By refusing to go big for a good coach on the front end we ended up spending a ton of money on coaches by paying them not to work.

 

[ptcarter]

That's a really cool pic! Is that an actual wedding going on as part of the day? Also, when was the last time there was snow on the ground for a home game? A lot going on in that picture.

I think it might be homecoming queen. Not sure. I really like that picture as well. A simpler time for sure. The game has morphed to where it will never quite return to this. Sad? I dunno. I still like the Vols and am VFL. I figure most of this bond comes from the old days, and wonder if I didn't experience the game when it was simpler and less $$ involved - if I would still have the allegiance? Hard to say. There are some things about the "gameday experience" that I wish went away. On a total tangent, I was at the Alabama game. The piped in music and crowd noise is total B.S. (I did sit right under the jumbotron and the speakers were right behind me). Loud and annoying. ESPECIALLY THE GUY ON THE P.A. TRYING TO DRUM UP 3rd DOWN ENTHUSIASM. That was a joke. Let's see...it's the 4th quarter, you are getting your ass beat. Bama's about to go to the victory formation, and this 3rd down recording comes on, with the guy sounding like he's about to wet his pants because it's 3rd down... and then Bama get's yet another first down. It's embarrassing, unnecessary, and has NO IMPACT on intimidating the visiting team...especially when the stadium is 25% capacity. So artificial it's a joke. /end rant.


edit:
One more thing... If, by now, you don't understand my mentality.. Let me clarify.. GET OFF MY LAWN YOU YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPER, and RUN THE DAMN BALL!

 

[butchna]

Now for some “big names” that we “refused” to go after.

 

[chuckb1448]

I'm 51, and I

you must be young

Once you get a 'real' job you'll understand. Its called a contract. A simple google search will teach alot

understand what a contract is: what I cant understand is what idiot agreed to this First type of contract to where it didn't matter if you succeeded or not.... you are guaranteed profit.

You may be too old to remember common sense

 

[ptcarter]

I'm 51, and I
understand what a contract is: what I cant understand is what idiot agreed to this First type of contract to where it didn't matter if you succeeded or not.... you are guaranteed profit.

You may be too old to remember common sense

I feel your pain here. Have often thought the same thing. I think the key to this is guys like Jimmy Sexton AKA "the agent". He's the guy that writes the contracts and its herd mentality. He's got the schools by the short and curlys. Why, because every qualified coach has the same stipulations. I feel this isn't common sense. I agree chuckb1448. How do you change it? I don't know. Another question that I don't know the answer too. Who pays out these big buyouts? Is this tax dollars or revenue from TV money? After all, it is a public institution. If tax money, how can a public civil servant obligate public funds for these ridiculous buyouts? It has never passed the sniff test.

Common sense has come up in this conversion. This guy is getting many, many thousands of dollars a month from The University of Tennessee. Think about it a minute. It defies common sense. If General Neyland could time travel suddenly from the late '50s and saw what was going on, what do you think he'd say? An ex UT coach, getting paid by UT to wear that friggin' crimson. Holy Moly.

 

[GulfCoasterVol]

Let's say for a moment that, Hypothetically the market would bare performance standards for college football coaches..... What would be the threshold for meeting the minimum performance standard at the University of Tennessee?

Maybe....

The Kentucky/Vandy/Sun Belt clause ?

1. Lose to either Kentucky or Vanderbilt or combination of those in two consecutive seasons - Immediate Termination with buyout reduction of 75% of gross salary for the years remaining on the contract. (Coach receiving 25% total calculated buyout)
2. Lose to both Kentucky and Vanderbilt in the same season - Immediate Termination with buyout reduction of 85% of gross salary for the years remaining on the contract. (Coach receiving 15% of total calculated buyout)
3. Lose to a Sun Belt or equivalent school in any season - Immediate Termination with buyout reduction of 95% of gross salary for the years remaining on the contract. (Coach receiving 5% of total calculated buyout)

with stipulations of course mitigating these clauses for extraordinary circumstances such as major outbreaks of illnesses due to pandemic events, extraordinary incidences of severe injuries to a statistically significant number of key players... etc....etc.....blah blah

Of course... YES.... this is ONLY Hypothetical and could never actually happen because time cannot be reversed taking us back to the time before the market got to where it is now.... it will likely only get worse.

 

[EZE]

I've never understood how you fail then get fired and keep getting paid. Does the floor man at Walmart who slacks and gets fired hear his boss say "we are letting you go Hoss, the floors look like cow patties.... by the way.... we will pay you for the remainder of this year and may as well toss 2021 in there as well."

The floor man at Walmart is an at-will employee with no contract, and can be fired at will (as long as it doesn’t violate discrimination laws).

A head coach is a contractual employee. The contract controls termination.