No Longer Women's BB teams built on Culture

[stllvf]

The era of Back Pat, and LadyVols forever as an emphasis on recruiting and team-building probably has little value in today's social media and NIL rules.

Rick Pitano recent interview stated it well: They are professional athletes. Get professionally paid. It’s not going away. You can’t try to get loopholes, because they take you to court. That’s why I say — so I’m not knocking the NCAA enforcement staff — they’re going to get taken to court every time they try to make a rule.

So it’s a tough time in college basketball right now. And for us, you can’t really build programs and a culture because everybody leaves.”


Only a few teams representing universities that are not the top tier re academics have top-teams annually based on "culture/family" Texas, A&M, Baylor, LSU, USC, UCLA, Ohio State, UConn, ND, SC have invested millions to hire coaches, and "hire/recruit players.

as a fan, much less interest in all professional sports, now women's basketball because so many come and leave.

 

[Volfan2012]

The era of Back Pat, and LadyVols forever as an emphasis on recruiting and team-building probably has little value in today's social media and NIL rules.

Rick Pitano recent interview stated it well: They are professional athletes. Get professionally paid. It’s not going away. You can’t try to get loopholes, because they take you to court. That’s why I say — so I’m not knocking the NCAA enforcement staff — they’re going to get taken to court every time they try to make a rule.

So it’s a tough time in college basketball right now. And for us, you can’t really build programs and a culture because everybody leaves.”


Only a few teams representing universities that are not the top tier re academics have top-teams annually based on "culture/family" Texas, A&M, Baylor, LSU, USC, UCLA, Ohio State, UConn, ND, SC have invested millions to hire coaches, and "hire/recruit players.

as a fan, much less interest in all professional sports, now women's basketball because so many come and leave.

Our culture is as good as it has ever been under Coach Harper and that could be one of several reasons were not recruiting well.

 

[JohnWardForever]

Who is this Pitano guy?

 

[Majors]

Our culture is as good as it has ever been under Coach Harper and that could be one of several reasons we’re not recruiting well.

Can you define how it’s better? The term is tossed around but no clarity. We’ve sat a player for practice issues and had one charged with underage drinking.

*Why did Marta leave? We all understand her mom and couldn’t imagine. Why end up at another school further away?

 

[37620VOL]

Can you define how it’s better? The term is tossed around but no clarity. We’ve sat a player for practice issues and had one charged with underage drinking.

I see a wonderful family culture, but I don't yet see championship culture

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Can you define how it’s better? The term is tossed around but no clarity. We’ve sat a player for practice issues and had one charged with underage drinking.

*Why did Marta leave? We all understand her mom and couldn’t imagine. Why end up at another school further away?

Because it had nothing to do with her mom, that was all speculation.

 

[Volfan2012]

Can you define how it’s better? The term is tossed around but no clarity. We’ve sat a player for practice issues and had one charged with underage drinking.

*Why did Marta leave? We all understand her mom and couldn’t imagine. Why end up at another school further away?

Incidents like you mentioned happen in every program far more than our basketball program. Barnes and Heupel have certainly had their issues with several players. Have no idea why Marta left, but I will assume she didn't like her role coming off the bench at Tennessee or her amount of playing time. Same for Pissott and I agree we had players in both instances, a lot of them that deserved to play in front of them. Huge upgrade in culture from what Holly left no defense of where the program was at the end of her reign.

 

[37620VOL]

*Why did Marta leave? We all understand her mom and couldn’t imagine. Why end up at another school further away?

Both of our "poor man's Sara Pucketts" (Justine and Marta) transferred away because they wanted 25+ minutes and behind Puckett they would only be getting about 10.

 

[Majors]

Incidents like you mentioned happen in every program far more than our basketball program. Barnes and Heupel have certainly had their issues with several players. Have no idea why Marta left, but I will assume she didn't like her role coming off the bench at Tennessee or her amount of playing time. Same for Pissott and I agree we had players in both instances, a lot of them that deserved to play in front of them. Huge upgrade in culture from what Holly left no defense of where the program was at the end of her reign.

So our culture is just a term tossed around. Nothing bad and nothing that sets us apart.

Marta leaving because of mins or was it more of a culture issue? Both speculation but timing isn’t ideal.

 

[Majors]

I see a wonderful family culture, but I don't yet see championship culture

That’s fair. Family isn’t always perfect

 

[glv98]

So our culture is just a term tossed around. Nothing bad and nothing that sets us apart.

Marta leaving because of mins or was it more of a culture issue? Both speculation but timing isn’t ideal.

To me culture isn't defined by those who left. Especially when there's been so relatively few who have left. Ya'll remember Lou Brown? She was scathing of the coaching staff, basically said they made fun of her and made it plain they were playing for the future.

I'd more define culture as the way folks who stay treat each other. By the end of Holly, they were fistfighting in the dorm, getting kicked out of school, and twitter fighting publically btw parents (hold our beer LSU).

Maybe they still all hate each other but at least they have the sense not to show it and to present a nice front of unity and loyalty. Now that's culture lol!

 

[Volfan2012]

So our culture is just a term tossed around. Nothing bad and nothing that sets us apart.

Marta leaving because of mins or was it more of a culture issue? Both speculation but timing isn’t ideal.

Evidently it was ideal for her as she was in charge of what she did in regards to her mother. She left the team for a while and then came back and just from her body language JMO thought she should be starting and playing more. I don't think it was anything involved with her mother we know through many more instances how Coach Harper deals with player injuries and family illness. Marta was also out another year with an injury of her own. Through it all no one said were kicking you off the team. Players choose to leave for whatever reason especially when you have a free ticket to be immediately eligible. Playing time maybe a better NIL deal who knows maybe it was some type of academics she couldn't get here. Certainly a poor example of a culture issue, cause if so both Barnes and Heupel's culture stinks and I don't believe that to be true.

 

[glv98]

Evidently it was ideal for her as she was in charge of what she did in regards to her mother. She left the team for a while and then came back and just from her body language JMO thought she should be starting and playing more. I don't think it was anything involved with her mother we know through many more instances how Coach Harper deals with player injuries and family illness. Marta was also out another year with an injury of her own. Through it all no one said were kicking you off the team. Players choose to leave for whatever reason especially when you have a free ticket to be immediately eligible. Playing time maybe a better NIL deal who knows maybe it was some type of academics she couldn't get here. Certainly a poor example of a culture issue, cause if so both Barnes and Heupel's culture stinks and I don't believe that to be true.

Actually, Marta and the LVs said from day 1 to this day that her leaving when she did was NOT about her Mom. But that's one of those little fact nuggets that never had staying power against the din.

 

[Volfan2012]

Actually, Marta and the LVs said from day 1 to this day that her leaving when she did was NOT about her Mom. But that's one of those little fact nuggets that never had staying power against the din.

Well some posters will try to use it forever. Anything they can use except actual facts is what will be posted. Anytime you are so strongly against a coach you will try anything to make them look bad. The only point they have with Coach Kellie is recruiting it has been terrible. Could've even been better with the portal couldn't get that player or two that would've made the current players and team far better.

 

[Majors]

Well some posters will try to use it forever. Anything they can use except actual facts is what will be posted. Anytime you are so strongly against a coach you will try anything to make them look bad. The only point they have with Coach Kellie is recruiting it has been terrible. Could've even been better with the portal couldn't get that player or two that would've made the current players and team far better.

Or some bring it up to blunt the “culture” reference. It is a fact she left during the season. Some also views CKH entire resume as less than mediocre from resume, record (big games), recruiting to game management.

 

[glv98]

Meant to add earlier, the irony of Rick Freakin Pitino bemoaning culture is like, wtf? Google him children, it ain't pretty. His best days were the many times he got caught cheating everywhere he coached, including Kentucky. Federal bribery charges involving recruits. The big one was his staff providing prostitutes to players in their dorm! So yeah, let's discuss culture Rick.

 

[Volfan2012]

Or some bring it up to blunt the “culture” reference. It is a fact she left during the season. Some also views CKH entire resume as less than mediocre from resume, record (big games), recruiting to game management.

Some like vanilla ice cream the best some like chocolate and so on. Some could see a white dog and insist that he is black. So some think her resume is bad and some think winning 61 percent of the games you've coached quite good. 69 percent at Tennessee. Some are going to see things one way and some will see it another. Usually she becomes a better coach on this board when she wins a couple games and a worse one when she loses. I would like to see her try a season with a roster I felt was top ten in the nation. If she did that and blew that opportunity then I could see everything differently. I mean Western Carolina, Missouri State, are not strong jobs. She couldn't recruit at NC St and hasn't been able to do it here. That is why she will lose the job at the end of the season if she loses it. Barnes actually has a lower winning percentage at Tennessee than she does, but that SEC title and tourney elevated him and he was able to recruit what he needed by the third season he was here.

 

[1reVOLver]

Syracuse under (!) Coach Q - dreadful culture.

One of the Texas colleges a few years ago, (I believe it was in the AAC) with players horribly treated by the coach - frighteningly awful culture.

A small number of universities have lots of transfers. That is usually a sign that the “culture”
isn't happy or robust.

With the few exceptions we have heard of, most college teams have players who get along well with each other and with the staff. Some are more close knit than others.

Claims that any given program has a superior culture are made without much in the way of evidence about the so-called superior school, and damned little if any for opponents.

 

[Majors]

Some like vanilla ice cream the best some like chocolate and so on. Some could see a white dog and insist that he is black. So some think her resume is bad and some think winning 61 percent of the games you've coached quite good. 69 percent at Tennessee. Some are going to see things one way and some will see it another. Usually she becomes a better coach on this board when she wins a couple games and a worse one when she loses. I would like to see her try a season with a roster I felt was top ten in the nation. If she did that and blew that opportunity then I could see everything differently. I mean Western Carolina, Missouri State, are not strong jobs. She couldn't recruit at NC St and hasn't been able to do it here. That is why she will lose the job at the end of the season if she loses it. Barnes actually has a lower winning percentage at Tennessee than she does, but that SEC title and tourney elevated him and he was able to recruit what he needed by the third season he was here.

Comparing her and Barnes isn’t worth the rabbit hole. As both leagues are drastically different and no way to compare as all things equal. As stated before you’re judged as a Lady Vol on SEC banners and beating UConn, Stanford, ND as a national brand. And deep tournament runs. So the number is viewed differently when you take into account the vs Top 25 teams.

 

[mudcat1973]

Can you define how it’s better? The term is tossed around but no clarity. We’ve sat a player for practice issues and had one charged with underage drinking.

*Why did Marta leave? We all understand her mom and couldn’t imagine. Why end up at another school further away?

SHe playing guard on offense at California Bears
And on defense she's guarded some in the post.
Marta play guard for Spain National team.
First part of the season she was there leading scorer.
Not check on her since.
She's also posted up on offense.

But she's playing guard for the Call Bears.
That's where's she wants to play.
Good for her.

 

[Volfan2012]

Comparing her and Barnes isn’t worth the rabbit hole. As both leagues are drastically different and no way to compare as all things equal. As stated before you’re judged as a Lady Vol on SEC banners and beating UConn, Stanford, ND as a national brand. And deep tournament runs. So the number is viewed differently when you take into account the vs Top 25 teams.

Play the same schools that his team plays South Carolina, Kentucky, LSU, etc just play women instead of men. When I look at the conference rankings I see the SEC women are ranked as the third best conference according to NET and the SEC men are also ranked the third best conference according to NET. So I have to accept other than one is all women and the other all men that in their league both are equal. At this point he has recruited quite a few All Americans so he can go up against the best teams. Then the last part brings us back to the same argument can't recruit so your not going to beat those teams that are more talented. So you fire the person that can't recruit and get one who can. Geno first five seasons 92 and 51 and first three 43 and 39 then he got some players and became a great coach. Dawn fairly average at Temple and first five years at SC 92 and 66 which is a 58 percent winning percentage. So she coached 11 seasons at about 60 percent winning percentage. After year five at SC she got the players became a great coach. Plenty of examples out there and it all came down to recruiting. That will JMO be the reason she gets fired. Cause she has done better than Dawn or Geno with average teams never had one with top 20 recruits filling the roster. Can't seem to do it so we'll see how it turns out.

 

[Volfan2012]

I see a wonderful family culture, but I don't yet see championship culture

Used to be you could have both now it is more like one or the other. Some programs are close to having both still have some players that glitches that to some extent.

 

[Majors]

Play the same schools that his team plays South Carolina, Kentucky, LSU, etc just play women instead of men. When I look at the conference rankings I see the SEC women are ranked as the third best conference according to NET and the SEC men are also ranked the third best conference according to NET. So I have to accept other than one is all women and the other all men that in their league both are equal. At this point he has recruited quite a few All Americans so he can go up against the best teams. Then the last part brings us back to the same argument can't recruit so your not going to beat those teams that are more talented. So you fire the person that can't recruit and get one who can. Geno first five seasons 92 and 51 and first three 43 and 39 then he got some players and became a great coach. Dawn fairly average at Temple and first five years at SC 92 and 66 which is a 58 percent winning percentage. So she coached 11 seasons at about 60 percent winning percentage. After year five at SC she got the players became a great coach. Plenty of examples out there and it all came down to recruiting. That will JMO be the reason she gets fired. Cause she has done better than Dawn or Geno with average teams never had one with top 20 recruits filling the roster. Can't seem to do it so we'll see how it turns out.

all things aren’t equal. So we can disagree if that’s your take. Just look at the ranking of how many men are in the Top 25 verse 2 for the ladies. Regardless of trying to piece the puzzle together the parts dont fit. Barnes built his foundation on 3* players before he got those AA you mentioned.

 

[Majors]

SHe playing guard on offense at California Bears
And on defense she's guarded some in the post.
Marta play guard for Spain National team.
First part of the season she was there leading scorer.
Not check on her since.
She's also posted up on offense.

But she's playing guard for the Call Bears.
That's where's she wants to play.
Good for her.

That wasn’t the question….it was why did she leave.

 

[Volfan2012]

all things aren’t equal. So we can disagree if that’s your take. Just look at the ranking of how many men are in the Top 25 verse 2 for the ladies. Regardless of trying to piece the puzzle together the parts dont fit. Barnes built his foundation on 3* players before he got those AA you mentioned.

Whatever he has won 61 percent of his SEC games and she has won 72 percent so he must have it harder. So that would mean every season he has faced better teams in his league than she has in hers. That seems not to make sense. He is good out of conference 66 percent to her 69 percent.