No excuses for CBJ in 2017

John Brice is saying he has to go 9-3 with the east title or 10-2 without it to save his job. It's not gonna happen.

Because what John says is always true...
John Brice’s bold predictions for Vandy game:
Ralph Webb won't have 100 rushing yards.
Tennessee's defense has been gashed; tackling has been poor. But, the Vols per those in the program had a great week of practice & match up better against the Dores than Mizzou's tempo spread.
Butch Jones gets an icy Gatorade bath.
The Vols haven't done too many celebratory liquid dumps, but they will pour it on Jones in the waning moments of this season-ending rivalry win.
 
You ever hear " lose the battle but win the war"
The battle is a few single games. The war is the future of UT football!

The war is lost if CBJ is here to stay!
CBJ is here to stay unless he loses some more battles he shouldn't

Catchy quotes get noticed, but a more real-world quote would be: lose the battle and lose the war. Not saying Jones may or may not be LONG termer, but I do know that another regime change after 9-4, 8-3 seasons would gut us to the core in recruiting/transfers and not just head coaches...but assistant coaches...who would want to come here after 4 coaching changes in 8 years. For lack of total failure, which this season is not (we're not a good enough program this century to call an 8-4 season a failure), the best opportunity for long term success is continuity, improvement, and unity of purpose w/ coaches and players...stuffing cotton in their ears along the way. (no, this isn't Butch posting)
 
13 seniors this year compared to Butchs true first recruiting class of 30 seniors next year. Yes that team of Freshman next year, oh how will we even field a team. :crazy:

2016 team is more talented on paper than 2017, barring some miracles like Barnett and Kamara returning next year. Given that, plus the strength of the east as a whole should be better in 2017, it will be more difficult than this season to win the east.

30 returning seniors, About half that are returning that made any real impact this year, many are buried 3rd or lower in the depth chart and have freshman and sophomores starting over them already.

You are saying this year Butch Jones was not setup to win the east and should not have been expected to, yet next year he is?
 
I do think that 2017 will be the year of "no excuses" for CBJ. He will be on the hot seat, and he will be coaching for his job. Again, JMO, but here's why:

- New Chancellor. May or may not be "big" on athletics, but Chancellors like to show why they were the right choice, and overseeing upgrades to the football, basketball, Lady Vols (basketball), and baseball programs, would be huge. It's not going to happen all at once, but football, as the milk cow for the Athletic Department, is the logical place to start.
- New AD. This is one thing that all of VN seems to agree on: Blackburn is the perfect choice. If he gets the nod, he's going to act quickly, and decisively. He isn't tone deaf. He hears what the media, both local and national, are saying. He hears the rumblings in the fan base. Probably in the ranks of the boosters as well. He knows how this ends if he doesn't act to protect and restore the brand. And he remembers well the missteps that led us to Kiffin, and Dooley. He knows that you get what you pay for. When Blackburn acts, and he will, he will have a solid plan.
- My guess is that CBJ is back for 2017 regardless. There may or may not be changes on the staff. Recruiting may or may not dip. There may or not not be changes in the scheme. But I think Blackburn has a sit-down with CBJ fairly early on, and lays out some very clear conditions for Butch to keep his job beyond 2017. Anything less than 9 wins, and/or winning the SEC East, and Butch is gone. While I can envision a scenario where 8 wins, or just missing out on Atlanta might be acceptable...once...I also think that Blackburn has already conducted his own personal evaluation of "ButchBall", and has determined that CBJ is simply in over his head. Again, JMO.
- I think Blackburn lays it out for CBJ in clear terms, and then sits back and gives him the chance to succeed, or fail. And here's where it gets murky, for me at least. Butch's personality does not lend itself to being told what to do, or given ultimatums. How he reacts to that hypothetical scenario is critical. He won't resign; his ego won't let him do that. But he could just spend 2017 going through the motions, and accept the fact that he's going back to the MAC, where he's more comfortable.
- For VN, watch the bowl game, regardless of who the opponent is, and then watch any changes to the staff. If the Vols show some fire in the bowl game, good sign. If he makes quality upgrades to the staff, that's a double good sign. It means Butch is truly "all in" for UT, and it means that there are other coaches out there who believe in what he is trying to so. We'll know a lot more by mid-January.
- And then recruiting. The Cottman thing bothers me. The implication being that Butch is trading future talent for "win now" Juco's. If so, it's a clear sign that Butch knows he's coaching for his job in 2017. I just can't find any other way to interpret that one. If Butch closes out NSD with a top 15 class, it means he can still sell his vision to recruits, and it likely means he thinks he can win at UT, and stay at UT. But if we end up with a class full of 3-stars and Juco's...go buy a cheap couch.
- Although I have come to the opinion that Butch is simply not "General Material", I really wanted him to be the guy when he was hired. He looks good on the sideline. He looks like a UT Football coach. He's got a cool nickname. But 4 years later, and after having backtracked to Cincinnati media and fan boards to see what they said about him when he left...what I see now is exactly what they said we were getting. There's no escaping that.
- If UT is, and remains an 8 to 9 win program, with a trip to Atlanta every 4 years or so, and a CFP berth every 10 years or so, then I think Butch can probably get us at least as far as Atlanta. Beyond that, I have my doubts. But if we want more...if the bar is higher now (and it should be)...then I think we have to set our expectations high, and hold the line.
- Butch has had his chance. It's time to put up, or move on.

Go Vols.
 
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I do think that 2017 will be the year of "no excuses" for CBJ. He will be on the hot seat, and he will be coaching for his job. Again, JMO, but here's why:

- New Chancellor. May or may not be "big" on athletics, but Chancellors like to show why they were the right choice, and overseeing upgrades to the football, basketball, Lady Vols (basketball), and baseball programs, would be huge. It's not going to happen all at once, but football, as the milk cow for the Athletic Department, is the logical place to start.
- New AD. This is one thing that all of VN seems to agree on: Blackburn is the perfect choice. If he gets the nod, he's going to act quickly, and decisively. He isn't tone deaf. He hears what the media, both local and national, are saying. He hears the rumblings in the fan base. Probably in the ranks of the boosters as well. He knows how this ends if he doesn't act to protect and restore the brand. And he remembers well the missteps that led us to Kiffin, and Dooley. He knows that you get what you pay for. When Blackburn acts, and he will, he will have a solid plan.
- My guess is that CBJ is back for 2017 regardless. There may or may not be changes on the staff. Recruiting may or may not dip. There may or not not be changes in the scheme. But I think Blackburn has a sit-down with CBJ fairly early on, and lays out some very clear conditions for Butch to keep his job beyond 2017. Anything less than 9 wins, and/or winning the SEC East, and Butch is gone. While I can envision a scenario where 8 wins, or just missing out on Atlanta might be acceptable...once...I also think that Blackburn has already conducted his own personal evaluation of "ButchBall", and has determined that CBJ is simply in over his head. Again, JMO.
- I think Blackburn lays it out for CBJ in clear terms, and then sits back and gives him the chance to succeed, or fail. And here's where it gets murky, for me at least. Butch's personality does not lend itself to being told what to do, or given ultimatums. How he reacts to that hypothetical scenario is critical. He won't resign; his ego won't let him do that. But he could just spend 2017 going through the motions, and accept the fact that he's going back to the MAC, where he's more comfortable.
- For VN, watch the bowl game, regardless of who the opponent is, and then watch any changes to the staff. If the Vols show some fire in the bowl game, good sign. If he makes quality upgrades to the staff, that's a double good sign. It means Butch is truly "all in" for UT, and it means that there are other coaches out there who believe in what he is trying to so. We'll know a lot more by mid-January.
- And then recruiting. The Cottman thing bothers me. The implication being that Butch is trading future talent for "win now" Juco's. If so, it's a clear sign that Butch knows he's coaching for his job in 2017. I just can't find any other way to interpret that one. If Butch closes out NSD with a top 15 class, it means he can still sell his vision to recruits, and it likely means he thinks he can win at UT, and stay at UT. But if we end up with a class full of 3-stars and Juco's...go buy a cheap couch.
- Although I have come to the opinion that Butch is simply not "General Material", I really wanted him to be the guy when he was hired. He looks good on the sideline. He looks like a UT Football coach. He's got a cool nickname. But 4 years later, and after having backtracked to Cincinnati media and fan boards to see what they said about him when he left...what I see now is exactly what they said we were getting. There's no escaping that.
- If UT is, and remains an 8 to 9 win program, with a trip to Atlanta every 4 years or so, and a CFP berth every 10 years or so, then I think Butch can probably get us at least as far as Atlanta. Beyond that, I have my doubts. But if we want more...if the bar is higher now (and it should be)...then I think we have to set our expectations high, and hold the line.
- Butch has had his chance. It's time to put up, or move on.

Go Vols.

Good stuff, Wolf.
 
Guys, he's not going anywhere. If this board were 100% Fahr Butch, it wouldn't matter. The AD situation, the buyout, and another bowl win will leave us at 9-4...too much progress from where we were to pull the trigger.

I thought the pre-season hype was too early. His first class, that he had 55 days to recruit, are just now seniors. See my Senior Leadership thread to see how that matters.

2017 is a different story.

First look at what we're really losing from this year:

Dobbs - according to many Fahr Butcher's on here, an inaccurate passer anyway that won't be that missed (much).
JRM - missed 8 games, balled out w/13 tackles v VaTech, pray for a redshirt
Vereen - averaged 2.9 tackles per game
Foreman - 3 INT's, missed 5 games in a VERY weak secondary.
Croom - 19 catches, missed 2 games - his best season.
Sutton - missed 6 games and wasn't the same upon his return.
Lewis - 2.9 tackles per game, missed 2 games.
Bynum - 1.7 tackles per game, missed 6 games.
Wiesman - injured most of the year.
Folger - thanks for your efforts.
Juniors:
Barnett - 12 sacks, probably won't be back as high 1st rounder.
Kamara - how much would he benefit from being the starter in 2017? Kelly will get 1,000+ if he leaves.

Summary is we're really just losing Barnett and Dobbs. If you want to add Sutton and JRM, then you have to buy the injury excuse.

Our roster on espn.com shows 30 juniors this year. Subtract the malignant quitter turd and it'll be 29 SENIORS. A 223% increase in seniors from the 13 we honored on Senior Day vs Mizzou.

Look at Upperclassmen by position:
DL - 10
LB - 6
DB - 9
OL - 9
WR - 8 (assuming Malone stays)
RB - 3

When is the last time we had numbers like that? Even with a 1st-year starter @ QB, a good coach with that many upperclassmen (assuming they've been properly developed by that "good coach") should win at least 10 on our schedule next year.

So, IMO, 2017 will tell us if Butch can coach or not. I think most rational folks have thought that all along. Until then, it'd be great if we could be supportive and positive. Who knows, current players and recruits may actually read the chicken little rants and snowflake fits some post here.

Let's win a bowl game and get excited about 2017. If Butch lays another egg, I'll gladly join the Fahr Butch gang!

GBO!

No offense but we covered this this year before season started around January of this year
 
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Guys, he's not going anywhere. If this board were 100% Fahr Butch, it wouldn't matter. The AD situation, the buyout, and another bowl win will leave us at 9-4...too much progress from where we were to pull the trigger.

I thought the pre-season hype was too early. His first class, that he had 55 days to recruit, are just now seniors. See my Senior Leadership thread to see how that matters.

2017 is a different story.

First look at what we're really losing from this year:

Dobbs - according to many Fahr Butcher's on here, an inaccurate passer anyway that won't be that missed (much).
JRM - missed 8 games, balled out w/13 tackles v VaTech, pray for a redshirt
Vereen - averaged 2.9 tackles per game
Foreman - 3 INT's, missed 5 games in a VERY weak secondary.
Croom - 19 catches, missed 2 games - his best season.
Sutton - missed 6 games and wasn't the same upon his return.
Lewis - 2.9 tackles per game, missed 2 games.
Bynum - 1.7 tackles per game, missed 6 games.
Wiesman - injured most of the year.
Folger - thanks for your efforts.
Juniors:
Barnett - 12 sacks, probably won't be back as high 1st rounder.
Kamara - how much would he benefit from being the starter in 2017? Kelly will get 1,000+ if he leaves.

Summary is we're really just losing Barnett and Dobbs. If you want to add Sutton and JRM, then you have to buy the injury excuse.

Our roster on espn.com shows 30 juniors this year. Subtract the malignant quitter turd and it'll be 29 SENIORS. A 223% increase in seniors from the 13 we honored on Senior Day vs Mizzou.

Look at Upperclassmen by position:
DL - 10
LB - 6
DB - 9
OL - 9
WR - 8 (assuming Malone stays)
RB - 3

When is the last time we had numbers like that? Even with a 1st-year starter @ QB, a good coach with that many upperclassmen (assuming they've been properly developed by that "good coach") should win at least 10 on our schedule next year.

So, IMO, 2017 will tell us if Butch can coach or not. I think most rational folks have thought that all along. Until then, it'd be great if we could be supportive and positive. Who knows, current players and recruits may actually read the chicken little rants and snowflake fits some post here.

Let's win a bowl game and get excited about 2017. If Butch lays another egg, I'll gladly join the Fahr Butch gang!

GBO!

Here we go again....one more year...lmao.....This program is almost gone.....Half the fan base now accepts mediocrity! We don't need 2017 to see if he can coach....The USC and Vandy games answered all questions! I guarantee that the "give him 1 more year crowd" will keep him till 2018!
 
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Catchy quotes get noticed, but a more real-world quote would be: lose the battle and lose the war. Not saying Jones may or may not be LONG termer, but I do know that another regime change after 9-4, 8-3 seasons would gut us to the core in recruiting/transfers and not just head coaches...but assistant coaches...who would want to come here after 4 coaching changes in 8 years. For lack of total failure, which this season is not (we're not a good enough program this century to call an 8-4 season a failure), the best opportunity for long term success is continuity, improvement, and unity of purpose w/ coaches and players...stuffing cotton in their ears along the way. (no, this isn't Butch posting)
So you're saying Bama would be better off of they'd kept Shula? Um. No.
 
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So at what point do we start saying "next year is our year?" At least it will make for good game day signs.
 
He really better step it up. I was talking to some friends earlier and started compiling some not so good records. In his four years at UT Butch is...

-1-3 vs nonconference (in season) p5 schools: W-va tech l-oregon,OU x2
-0-8 vs sec west!:4x to bama. Then losses Auburn, ole miss,ark and a&m
-1-3 vs uf
-2-2 vs uga
-2-2 vs mizzou
-2-2 vs vandy
-3-1 vs scar
-4-0 vs Kentucky
-2-0 vs big10 in bowls

If this isn't the definition of mediocrity then I don't know what is. Still a supporter of Butch because I haven't forgotten my recent history, but if not next year then I really just don't know.
 
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Yeah, who needs a gazillion touchdowns? What good are you if you are inaccurate on the deep ball?

We don't need Dobbs' touchdowns with Shoopinator's v2 defense. Won't be missed.

Dobbs leads the SEC in touchdowns and accuracy on passes of 20+ yards. Please tell me more about his inaccuracy.
 
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I was reading an article today about Saban and it mentioned how he hates cliches. He said when he was on Bill Belichick's staff at Clevenland, they only had one sign in their locker room, and it just said "Do Your Job".
 
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Man, VN is going to be more exciting to watch than a blindfolded dodgeball tournament for the next 9 months. Forget the bowl game, I could sell tickets to any one of a over a thousand VN free-for-all threads that will pop up between now and then.

This is just the beginning.

:popcorn:

Go Vols.
 
Man, VN is going to be more exciting to watch than a blindfolded dodgeball tournament for the next 9 months. Forget the bowl game, I could sell tickets to any one of a over a thousand VN free-for-all threads that will pop up between now and then.

This is just the beginning.

:popcorn:

Go Vols.
Never is boring much in here.
 
Now that everything has shaken out this thread should read "No excuses for CBJ in his 5th year". Three years ago Washington and Penn State were run of the mill teams in college football and now they are ranked 4 & 5 each with coaches in their 3rd year. Tennessee is still hoping to get something out of their 5th year coach NEXT year.
 

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