No coach .....

#102
#102
MedicT said:
Good, then strap in cause we got a few miles of rough road left to travel. If we go through another coaching change in the next 3 years you could be looking at another decade or two to rebuild.
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If Jones is the recruiter it appears he is the last part is false unless you hire another guy that cant coach. Even at that it doesnt justify keeping a guy because he recruits well, sells Tshirts, but cant win. The next guy may sell more Tshirts.
 
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#103
#103
KoachKletus said:
Is it inconceivable to think that Vandy shot an arrow and drew a bullseye where it landed. Think about things before spouting off. Vandy at the time was a top heavy team (juniors and seniors) - playing teams that when we played were healthy - but when Vandy played were crippled - think about it before posting stupid dribble.
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U mad, bro? Seems like we had a few upperclassmen on last year's team as well.
 
#104
#104
sjt18 said:
Next year you basically have the same OL's to choose from... and a new QB. How much better do you really expect it to be?
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The biggest jump for any player's skill level comes between the 1st and 2nd year. The O-line will not really improve this year. They are hanging on by their fingernails.
 
#105
#105
Another coaching change would solidify the belief among potential recruits that UT is not willing to provide the environment needed to win. Coach Jones has worked very hard to restore confidence in UT Football and if that is discarded now you can hang up the program for a generation or two.
 
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#106
#106
Volview said:
The biggest jump for any player's skill level comes between the 1st and 2nd year. The O-line will not really improve this year. They are hanging on by their fingernails.
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That happens for the duration of time between the 2.
 
#107
#107
State of the Vols said:
It is inconceivable to me to think that James Franklin inherited that much more at Vandy than Butch did here - I just do not believe that to be the case. Yet Franklin seemed to coach them up enough to beat Florida, Georgia and UT (for the second year in a row) last year and to go to two straight bowl games. How does that jibe with all this crap about Butch walking into such a terrible situation?
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I like CBJ. I am just afraid he is too loyal to his coaches that he won't make changes that clearly need to be made. Our offense is pathetic. No imagination... No attempts to hide our obvious weak OL with some different looks... Just the same....

GBO! The Volunteers will get this turned around. Watching a little of the Denver v San Fran game. Loved it when Peyton threw that 1st TD pass and as they cut to commercial they played Rocky Top! Thank you Peyton Manning for coming to UT. You rock!
 
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#108
#108
MedicT said:
Another coaching change would solidify the belief among potential recruits that UT is not willing to provide the (COACH) needed to win. Coach Jones has worked very hard to restore confidence in UT Football and if that is discarded now you can hang up the program for a generation or two.
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Id agree with the fixed portion.

Recruits buy the talk and the early playing time until the later runs its course. (Which will conclude with the 15 class) At that point your gonna need a new pitch and recruits and opposing programs are smart enough to see when time is up and progress has to be visible.

Jones has worked extremely hard and has said the right things most of the time. Nobody is arguing that, at least that I have seen. He s a likable person and easy to pull for specifically comparing him to the last guy. (Even tho he shouldnt be the stick by which any coach is measured)
There are a lot of people that work very hard in all different walks of life. That doesnt always guarantee success tho.
 
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#109
#109
LOL......again I think most see the program at just about the level it was expected to be this year. You can ignore reality if it makes you feel better.
 
#110
#110
MedicT said:
LOL......again I think most see the program at just about the level it was expected to be this year. You can ignore reality if it makes you feel better.
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All of that was posted in relation to your idea that Jones could have a losing record for the duration of his contract and no one in the brass would make the first question about it. Nothing more.

Under that premise Dooley would still be here losing 7 games a year in front of 50k fans all in the name of continuity.

I think he ll find a 6 or 7 win season or 2 somewhere but right now thats about all I see.
 
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#111
#111
a wise man once said...."you can chose to love or hate....I chose love" Johnny Cash
 
#112
#112
volfan411 said:
The problem is both of them were handed cupcake OOC schedules plug Oregon or Oklahoma into either of their schedules in year one or two and that would have been a sure loss for bothe.
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They played Texas. Both years. Not their fault Texas wasn't good and Texas has a talent advantage over anyone but Alabama. They still went 1-1 with them.
 
#113
#113
BigOrangeTrain said:
If we had Vandys schedule last year, we would have easily made a bowl game.

Compare Vandys schedules to ours. Vandy played UF when injuries had decimated their team and they were playing their back up QB. Georgia was also plaques by injuries. Let's not act like Vandy beat Georgia and UF when they were totally healthy.
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Sorry guys, but a win is a win. Period.
 
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#114
#114
Question, how many coaches in the SEC do you think would have this team sitting at 5-2?
 
#117
#117
metafour said:
Those two (Freeze and Mullen) were still putting up respectable seasons (7 or more wins) even while they were still "building", hence there was tangible proof that their "process" was at least heading in the right direction, because they still found ways to win games. Freeze is in year three, but his team has won 7 or more games in all three of those seasons. Dan Mullen? 7 or more wins in five out of six seasons...the only season in which his team won less than 7 games was his first one. So really, those two are a combined eight of nine. Butch Jones is en-route to zero in two.
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And they both followed working coaches instead of an self important, self entitled a$$bag that did little to nothing recruiting players or anything else for that matter On top of 3 years of wrecking our program so what's your point? People need to be reminded of how bad Dooley was with Janzen Jackson eventually committing murder and Aaron Douglas killing himself as the worse of much more incompetence
 
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#118
#118
State of the Vols said:
It is inconceivable to me to think that James Franklin inherited that much more at Vandy than Butch did here - I just do not believe that to be the case. Yet Franklin seemed to coach them up enough to beat Florida, Georgia and UT (for the second year in a row) last year and to go to two straight bowl games. How does that jibe with all this crap about Butch walking into such a terrible situation?
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Ahem:

Austin Peay (0-12)
UMass (1-11)
UMass (1-11)
UAB (2-10)
Georgia (8-5)
Florida (4-8)
Kentucky (5-7)
Kentucky (2-10)
Kentucky (2-10)
Tennessee (5-7)
Tennessee (5-7)
Wake Forest (6-7)
Wake Forest (5-7)
Houston (8-5)
Presbyterian (2-9)
Missouri (5-7)
Auburn (3-9)
Ole Miss (7-6)
NC State (7-6)
Elon (5-6)
UConn (5-7)
Ole Miss (2-10)
Army (3-9)

Those are Vandy's wins under Franklin.

Combined record of teams Vandy beat?

93-186

33% winning percentage.

So of all of those wins, Franklin beat FOUR teams with winning records at the end of the season.

Georgia, Ole Miss, Houston, and NC State. And I should add that it is the same NC State team that we drubbed in the opener in 2012.

Franklin did a pretty good job gameplanning for those four games.

But let's be real here. His success is 99% off of the fact that he played NOBODY. Vandy's schedule set them up for success.

You give Dooley that same schedule, and he's still here.


I'm not excusing Butch, I think that Florida game is completely inexcusable this year.

But don't give me the "Franklin is a better coach than Butch." Butch pulled off a bigger win against South Carolina last year than Franklin ever pulled at Vandy.
 
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#119
#119
govols105 said:
it is a process we all understand but it's time to turn that process in to at least a 7-6 season with one win over a ranked team.
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No actually that's not true.

You see, if it were that time in the process we would have gone 7-6 with one win over a ranked team.

But we didn't.

So unfortunately it's just not that time.

Thank you for listening.
 
#120
#120
And we, in that same time period?

2011: Played an 12-1 LSU team, a 12-1 Alabama team, plus a 11-2 Arkansas team, a 10-4 Georgia team, a 10-2 South Carolina team, and a 10-3 Cincinnati team.

2012: Played a 11-2 Florida team, a 12-2 Georgia team, an 8-5 Mississippi State team, a National Champion 13-1 Alabama, an 11-2 South Carolina team

2013: Played an 11-2 Oregon team, BEAT an 11-2 South Carolina team, played an 11-2 Alabama team, a 12-2 Mizzou team, a 12-2 Auburn team.

So, you swap our schedule with Vandy's schedule the past few, and we'll see how different it is.

Fact is, our schedule is always going to be tougher as long as Alabama is up. We play them every single year. Vandy doesn't have to deal with that.

Just don't think you can say that Franklin has done more with Vandy than Butch has done with UT.

Franklin has had 4 "signature wins" against winning records. Georgia @ 8-5, Ole Miss @ 7-6, NC State @ 7-6, and Houston @ 8-5. 4 big wins in 3 years.

Butch already has 1 in 1.5 years. And the season isn't over. You can't compare yet.
 
#121
#121
deaconkane said:
Sorry guys, but a win is a win. Period.
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No. If we were 6-0 against UMass, UTC, Presbyterian, Wake Forest, Elon, UConn, I wouldn't be excited at all.

No disrespect to those programs, but those types of wins tell you nothing about your football program, except you don't suck bad enough to lose to them, because then you really suck.

A win over a 0-12 Austin Peay is not the same as a win over a 10-2 South Carolina. Sorry. No way.

Yeah, they both show up the same. But they say totally different things about your team.

I may be the only one, but if we get to a bowl game by simply beating cupcakes, then I would feel like we didn't really make it to a bowl game. JMO.
 
#122
#122
TNHopeful505 said:
No. If we were 6-0 against UMass, UTC, Presbyterian, Wake Forest, Elon, UConn, I wouldn't be excited at all.

No disrespect to those programs, but those types of wins tell you nothing about your football program, except you don't suck bad enough to lose to them, because then you really suck.

A win over a 0-12 Austin Peay is not the same as a win over a 10-2 South Carolina. Sorry. No way.

Yeah, they both show up the same. But they say totally different things about your team.

I may be the only one, but if we get to a bowl game by simply beating cupcakes, then I would feel like we didn't really make it to a bowl game. JMO.
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We need the extra practices more than anything.
 
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#123
#123
smokey0625 said:
I criticize the same as if we were great. It doesn't matter to me, we just have to correct our lack of offensI've imagination. You can't do the same thing for two years with similar results and not change. I'm sure in our offense we have a quick passing game. I'm sure we have various packages that we haven't used. I'm just curious as to why we are not using them. I feel we force players to match the system not match packages to our players. Just frustrating knowing that a deep drop back is a bad idea for our team, but we continue to drive the square head into that round peg. I think Coach Jones is frustrated because if things don't change he will have to make changes and that would involve making a big decision that will affect one of his friends. I hope they get it moving in the right direction. Remember we need to make a bowl this year.

We do need to get a little more realistic so we can continue to help recruiting. Don't need to get negative just because we were incorrectly optimistic. We just aren't there yet.
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Dang you're so smart. Wonder why UT didn't come after you for head coach. On a serious note i think it's more a dose of paranoia in your case.
 
#124
#124
CBJ had a lot of problems to contend with when he came in and took the job. There's a reason none of the people we contacted first were interested. The O-line was set to be decimated in year two, we were coming off a season where the defense looked lost and appeared to have few play makers, we had brutal schedules coming up, and we had questions at QB.

Maybe another coach and staff could have come in and won a few more games, but they'd still be stuck trying to refill the roster after the disaster that was Kiffin and Dooley. I think Butch is probably a very good coach and has a pretty serviceable staff. But, it's one of those situations where our personnel are so out of sync with their offensive philosophy that it's turned into a dumpster fire. Not sure what the answer is there since you could probably change some things up to hide it better, but then you aren't teaching your system for the future.
 
#125
#125
sjt18 said:
That's a false statement. Jones may yet turn things around and win championships at UT but there have been several coaches recently take over similar situations and succeed quickly... UT just played one of them.

The game had passed Fulmer by. He and his poor recruiting/player discipline is what started this whole mess. Recruits weren't listening anymore and especially OL's.

If you look back... Dooley's OL recruiting was at least as good as Fulmer's last 3 years. And just to be sure you know... that's not a compliment.


Jones gets this year and next. If he has another losing season this year then he will be and will deserve to be on a hot seat needing something GOOD to save himself in '15.

This year so far is not going any better than last year. Last year they had neither a good D nor a good O. This year the D is playing well. Next year you basically have the same OL's to choose from... and a new QB. How much better do you really expect it to be?
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Next year is going to be the same as this year. We will struggle to win 6 games and I'm fine with that. The 2016-2017 is when Coach Jones has to start to win 8+ games a year. We are slowly climbing out of a very deep hole. We are going to be very talented on defense next year but offense is going to take a step back with QB play and probably the o-line still struggling. 2016-2017!
 
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