No American Flag?

#126
#126
hog88 said:
Not really, slavery would have died out to the point where it could have been peacefully outlawed given another 10-15 years.
Click to expand...

This. It was an econom8c inevitability. With improved technology and worker skill level, slaves would have become cost-ineffective.
 
#129
#129
mrorange211 said:
Additionally, the figure is closer to 65% of southerns did not own slaves, while only about 1-2% owned more than 100 or more.
Click to expand...

I've heard the % of slave holders be cited between these two numbers (2% to ~30%). Now, I understand. Thx.
 
#133
#133
n_huffhines said:
This. It was an econom8c inevitability. With improved technology and worker skill level, slaves would have become cost-ineffective.
Click to expand...

So the slaves should not have been freed ASAP, but just wait for a few more decades until they were economically worthless?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#134
#134
Danl said:
So the slaves should not have been freed ASAP, but just wait for a few more decades until they were economically worthless?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is saying that. I for one don't think that the 100s of thousands of lives lost was worth it when it could have been accomplished with time and other means.

I find it ludicrous to believe that over 1 million union soldiers in the 1860's willing risked their lives to end slavery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#135
#135
hog88 said:
I don't think anyone is saying that. I for one don't think that the 100s of thousands of lives lost was worth it when it could have been accomplished with time and other means.

I truly am not following you here. Doesn't "time and other means" equate to slaves being slaves for a longer period?

I find it ludicrous to believe that over 1 million union soldiers in the 1860's willing risked their lives to end slavery.
Click to expand...

.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#136
#136
hog88 said:
I don't think anyone is saying that. I for one don't think that the 100s of thousands of lives lost was worth it when it could have been accomplished with time and other means.

I find it ludicrous to believe that over 1 million union soldiers in the 1860's willing risked their lives to end slavery.
Click to expand...

My wife's family is from PA. We have a diary from an ancestor that served in the Union and his reason was to fight to preserve the country he loved. He knew there were people fighting for other reasons but his President made a call to service and he answered.

I have a direct line ancestor that was from northern AL. A father and son both fled to southern TN to avoid harassment by the AL home guard. Once union forces came to TN they joined up along with a few hundred others from the area to form the 1st AL Cavalry that went on to march with Sherman through GA. They were Jacksonian Democrats staunchly loyal to the union and fought to keep the country together. They did not own slaves and thought it was immoral and would not fight alongside other Alabamians to defend rich landowners and their slaves.
 
#137
#137
Danl said:
.
Click to expand...

Yes of course.

You do realize that the emancipation proclamation wasn't even signed until over a year and 1/2 into the war and then it still didn't free slaves in union states? The 13th amendment wasn't passed until 1864 and not ratified until December 1865, over 6 months after the war ended.
 
#138
#138
CSpindizzy said:
My wife's family is from PA. We have a diary from an ancestor that served in the Union and his reason was to fight to preserve the country he loved. He knew there were people fighting for other reasons but his President made a call to service and he answered.

I have a direct line ancestor that was from northern AL. A father and son both fled to southern TN to avoid harassment by the AL home guard. Once union forces came to TN they joined up along with a few hundred others from the area to form the 1st AL Cavalry that went on to march with Sherman through GA. They were Jacksonian Democrats staunchly loyal to the union and fought to keep the country together. They did not own slaves and thought it was immoral and would not fight alongside other Alabamians to defend rich landowners and their slaves.
Click to expand...

Very admirable. I have a couple relatives on my mothers side who fled to MD and joined the union army.

We don't talk about them much.. :)
 
#139
#139
hog88 said:
Yes of course.

You do realize that the emancipation proclamation wasn't even signed until over a year and 1/2 into the war and then it still didn't free slaves in union states? The 13th amendment wasn't passed until 1864 and not ratified until December 1865, over 6 months after the war ended.
Click to expand...

So it took roughly 5 years to "free" the slaves, despite having to do so by force. And you think it would have been better to take a few more decades to do so?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#140
#140
hog88 said:
Very admirable. I have a couple relatives on my mothers side who fled to MD and joined the union army.

We don't talk about them much.. :)
Click to expand...

My dad's parents are grandchildren of opposing sides. My grandmother's dad fought for the Confederacy while my grandfather's grandfather fought for the Union. Both lived in the Guntersville, AL area during the time. Supposedly, when I grandparents met and decided to get married it caused a ruckus within both families. They packed their bags and moved to Chattanooga. They weren't talked about much either. ;)
 
#141
#141
Danl said:
So it took roughly 5 years to "free" the slaves, despite having to do so by force. And you think it would have been better to take a few more decades to do so?
Click to expand...

Yes I do. It wasn't woth 600 thousand plus lives.
 
#142
#142
n_huffhines said:
Interesting tidbit...I had relatives in Arkansas that were murdered and robbed by Jayhawkers at their farm.
Click to expand...

That's pretty incredible. People often overlook the violence in the West during the 1850's as a major event, but it really was crazy. I think John Brown was bat**** crazy, but that's my personal opinion.
 
#144
#144
hog88 said:
Yes I do. It wasn't woth 600 thousand plus lives.
Click to expand...

What about the lives of x hundred thousand slaves?

So maybe a better course would have been to give up slavery in lieu of losing 600,000 lives?

Or maybe, bring to the table an offer to free the slaves in 5 years or some such?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#145
#145
Danl said:
What about the lives of x hundred thousand slaves?

So maybe a better course would have been to give up slavery in lieu of losing 600,000 lives?

Or maybe, bring to the table an offer to free the slaves in 5 years or some such?
Click to expand...

All would have been preferable to the war.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#146
#146
Danl said:
So the slaves should not have been freed ASAP, but just wait for a few more decades until they were economically worthless?
Click to expand...

I think it would have happened a lot sooner than that, and then 600,000+ men, women, and children (including slaves) don't have to die.

Robert E Lee freed his own slaves before the emancipation proclamation, and the eman proc didn't even free slaves in the North. It even exempted slaves from counties in the south that the Union occupied. There was a strong abolitionist movement in the south, and when Robert E Lee is pushing for it, abolition is on its way and slavery's days are numbered. Robert E Lee turned away a lynch mob for hell's sake (Lee told them the accused would see a fair trial, and the freedman was later convicted of rape). He was the most politically powerful man in the history of the south. Jefferson Davis had an adopted black son. The times were changing and the history books try to erase that. Disgruntled confederates turned their ire on freed blacks, and the south regressed in race relations.

So when you consider what blacks went through from 1864-1964, I would say a peaceful end to slavery (even if it took another decade) would have been far preferable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#147
#147
Obsessed said:
Jayhawkers?

Where at in arkansas if I may ask....
Click to expand...

Searcy County, Arkansas

Here is my Aunt's account of the events:

Zebediah Baker came to Searcy County about 1836 from North Carolina; he was born in 1814. He married Hannah Grinder who came to Searcy County in the year 1840. Hannah settled at the old Lebanon where her family operated an old water mill. They owned the farm that Ralph Ferguson presently owns (1977). During the civil war, Zebediah and one of his boys, Andrew J. Baker, were working in a field and a party of northern Jayhawkers rode into the field killing the Baker men. These Jayhawkers were believed to be from Kansas or Missouri.
Click to expand...

The older I get, the more I appreciate family history.
 
#148
#148
n_huffhines said:
Searcy County, Arkansas

Here is my Aunt's account of the events:



The older I get, the more I appreciate family history.
Click to expand...

Thank you

Very interesting.

I recently read of the deadliest gang in America. They formed shortly after the civil war
I'll look it back up and see if I can find the names.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top