Next Up on the Sexual Abuse Front......Roy Moore

#626
#626
DinkinFlicka said:
What gets me about 72's defense in comparison to the mainstream defense (i.e. discrediting the accusers, why did they wait until now, is this even true) is that he seems to accept that it did indeed happen... yet he thinks it's a-ok because either A) it happened so long ago that it's irrelevant (lol statute of limitations) or B) it's not that big a deal because 72 finds 14 year old's to be sexually attractive.

He's one ****ed up old dude.
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You must have missed the latest defense. Maybe Judge Roy self identified as a 16 year old boy at the time.
 
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#629
#629
DinkinFlicka said:
If it's all true, would it really bother you so much that they were pressured to come forward?
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It should bother anybody. Did you happen to notice the big uproar about election tampering - you know, the Russians are coming?

This particular case of election tampering is all about timing. If the allegations were all made during the primary campaign, it would have been one thing - mainly the the problem with presumption of guilt based on allegation. However, these slime-balls waited until the ballots were in print - too late for the another candidate to be put in Moore's place; that's almost certainly orchestrated tampering. It means an alternative would have to be a write in. In other words, this is the most negative way the Dims could run an election - giving them a high probability of a win. If the Dims actually lost by splitting the Rep vote, they'd probably start a spelling counts and no end of other Chads matter demonstrations.

Sometimes there are sound reasons you don't do things, and one of the best is to avoid a disastrous precedent. I guess the best way to put this one is that instead of relying on any pretense of fact and fair debate, this timing tactic is election by ambush, and it's pure bush league.
 
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#631
#631
DinkinFlicka said:
Call them "Dims" as much as you'd like but you said it yourself... this timing is tactful.
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The timing is "tactful" or tactical? It's short ranged and short sighted thought - certainly dim in terms of the thought spectrum. Doesn't make much sense to unleash a harmful practice with little chance of defense when it could be used against you in the future. If you think there aren't a lot of people who have skeletons in the closet (transgressions that are in vogue today but pretty much accepted practice years ago), then you are more naive than I thought. McCarthyism wasn't necessarily a one hit wonder.

I'm all for cleaning up politics, and abuses anywhere for that matter, but there is a time and place for everything. This one has "wrong headed" written all over it. Not for philandering - if true. However, allegations are just that and should be treated as such; they aren't necessarily fact; they aren't necessarily true; and allegations should not be accepted as either.

The big issue, though, is timing. The allegations were never pursued when they should have been. First they should have been presented at the time to remove from office an unfit person - if he was guilty of anything; second, they should have been presented when the statute of limitations was in effect - not past date allegations used for character assassination.

The other part is simply politics, and turning the process slimier than it already is. This is meddling and tampering because it traps a party (locked by procedural matters) to a candidate. If one political camp withholds damning information (whether true or false), prevents the other party from properly vetting a candidate, and then pulls the ambush when it's too late; it goes from dirty politics to sabotage of the electoral system. Something like a criminal trial without discovery and other rules to keep the process from being a mockery to fairness.

I'd think we would want to clean up the electoral process - not subvert it and cause it to be more tamper prone.
 
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#632
#632
AM64 said:
The timing is "tactful" or tactical? It's short ranged and short sighted thought - certainly dim in terms of the thought spectrum. Doesn't make much sense to unleash a harmful practice with little chance of defense when it could be used against you in the future. If you think there aren't a lot of people who have skeletons in the closet (transgressions that are in vogue today but pretty much accepted practice years ago), then you are more naive than I thought. McCarthyism wasn't necessarily a one hit wonder.

I'm all for cleaning up politics, and abuses anywhere for that matter, but there is a time and place for everything. This one has "wrong headed" written all over it. Not for philandering - if true. However, allegations are just that and should be treated as such; they aren't necessarily fact; they aren't necessarily true; and allegations should not be accepted as either.

The big issue, though, is timing. The allegations were never pursued when they should have been. First they should have been presented at the time to remove from office an unfit person - if he was guilty of anything; second, they should have been presented when the statute of limitations was in effect - not past date allegations used for character assassination.

The other part is simply politics, and turning the process slimier than it already is. This is meddling and tampering because it traps a party (locked by procedural matters) to a candidate. If one political camp withholds damning information (whether true or false), prevents the other party from properly vetting a candidate, and then pulls the ambush when it's too late; it goes from dirty politics to sabotage of the electoral system. Something like a criminal trial without discovery and other rules to keep the process from being a mockery to fairness.

I'd think we would want to clean up the electoral process - not subvert it and cause it to be more tamper prone.
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Dink is just overjoyed that they trapped a Republican, a Trump supporter, a religious person, a white man, a conservative, and an old person all at one time. He is probably pounding his pud as we speak.
 
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#633
#633
"Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), the longest-serving current House member, reportedly settled a wrongful dismissal complaint in 2015 after a former employee accused him of firing her for resisting his 'sexual advances.'"

"Two women wrote in their affidavits that they believed Conyers used office resources to pay for the travels of women with whom he was having affairs. Another staffer described the task of driving women to and from the lawmaker’s apartment and hotel rooms."

BY OLIVIA BEAVERS

Report: Conyers settled wrongful dismissal complaint over 'sexual advances' | TheHill
 
#634
#634
Wow, Republicans have gone full retard. 40% of Alabamans say the accusations make them more likely to vote for Moore. WTF is wrong with people? People comparing this dolt to Jesus. This is some of the most ignorant garbage I've ever seen. It's no wonder people think that the south is full of uneducated, backwards, incest loving fools...

And 72, your troll game was money in this thread.
 
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#635
#635
ClearwaterVol said:
Wow, Republicans have gone full retard. 40% of Alabamans say the accusations make them more likely to vote for Moore. WTF is wrong with people? People comparing this dolt to Jesus. This is some of the most ignorant garbage I've ever seen. It's no wonder people think that the south is full of uneducated, backwards, incest loving fools...

And 72, your troll game was money in this thread.
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You think? It was so over the top, the arguments were so bad I thought it came off as forced. 2/10
 
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#637
#637
ClearwaterVol said:
Wow, Republicans have gone full retard. 40% of Alabamans say the accusations make them more likely to vote for Moore. WTF is wrong with people? People comparing this dolt to Jesus. This is some of the most ignorant garbage I've ever seen. It's no wonder people think that the south is full of uneducated, backwards, incest loving fools...

And 72, your troll game was money in this thread.
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I thought that I put up a spirited defense of Judge Roy.
 
#639
#639
ClearwaterVol said:
Wow, Republicans have gone full retard. 40% of Alabamans say the accusations make them more likely to vote for Moore. WTF is wrong with people? People comparing this dolt to Jesus. This is some of the most ignorant garbage I've ever seen. It's no wonder people think that the south is full of uneducated, backwards, incest loving fools...

And 72, your troll game was money in this thread.
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As someone who lives here I have a different take - I'd say 1/2 of Moore's support is spite about McConnell and Co. This state has a long standing distrust of the Federal government and the more it appears the establishment is making decisions for Alabama the more they push back.

Call it ignorant garbage but it's more nuanced than that.
 
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#640
#640
volinbham said:
As someone who lives here I have a different take - I'd say 1/2 of Moore's support is spite about McConnell and Co. This state has a long standing distrust of the Federal government and the more it appears the establishment is making decisions for Alabama the more they push back.

Call it ignorant garbage but it's more nuanced than that.
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I made the same point here a couple of weeks ago. It goes back to the Civil War.
 
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#641
#641
1972 Grad said:
I made the same point here a couple of weeks ago. It goes back to the Civil War.
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For many, Moore is a protest vote.

It's part of the larger erosion in trust we are seeing everywhere. The Trump and Sanders phenomena were part of this bigger trend.

Personally, Moore seems like the perfect example of why you wouldn't trust politicians but for others he's a maverick thats cutting through the BS.
 
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#642
#642
volinbham said:
For many, Moore is a protest vote.

It's part of the larger erosion in trust we are seeing everywhere. The Trump and Sanders phenomena were part of this bigger trend.

Personally, Moore seems like the perfect example of why you wouldn't trust politicians but for others he's a maverick thats cutting through the BS.
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This is what I don't get. It's enough cognitive dissonance to make you lose faith in humanity.
 
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#643
#643
n_huffhines said:
This is what I don't get. It's enough cognitive dissonance to make you lose faith in humanity.
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But this is not uncommon - we saw it with the Occupy Wall Street crowd, we see it with all sorts of political support.

The more someone tells you what's "good for you" and tries to make decisions for you - the more you push back. It's defiance.

It a small bit of empowerment for people who feel crushed by the system.

At this point all I can do is try to empathize why people make decisions I would not make rather than label them.
 
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#644
#644
volinbham said:
For many, Moore is a protest vote.

It's part of the larger erosion in trust we are seeing everywhere. The Trump and Sanders phenomena were part of this bigger trend.

Personally, Moore seems like the perfect example of why you wouldn't trust politicians but for others he's a maverick thats cutting through the BS.
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I agree that it's a protest vote - though the irony is that Moore is as every bit as slimy as the establishment (and now, even more so.)

The adage of cutting off one nose to spite ones face comes to mind.
 
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#645
#645
Septic said:
I agree that it's a protest vote - though the irony is that Moore is as every bit as slimy as the establishment (and now, even more so.)

The adage of cutting off one nose to spite ones face comes to mind.
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Apt - my point is this isn't some isolated incident or even party specific. This is human nature.
 
#647
#647
Septic said:
Normally CW hits the nail on the head but I think he missed on his assessment of your troll game. I'm a connoisseur of the art and found your efforts wanting and bizarre.
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I subjected myself to being called a pedophile by standing up for a good man doing the Lord's work. I tried to explain the nuances between pedophilia and ephebophilia, but it fell on the deaf ears of the unwashed masses on VN.

I tried to explore the possibilities of the good judge self identifying as a 16 year old boy, even though he was 32 at the time. I tried to say that the girl lied about her age. I should have just called it for what it actually is......a vast left wing conspiracy. There is precedent for that.
 
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#648
#648
volinbham said:
For many, Moore is a protest vote.

It's part of the larger erosion in trust we are seeing everywhere. The Trump and Sanders phenomena were part of this bigger trend.

Personally, Moore seems like the perfect example of why you wouldn't trust politicians but for others he's a maverick thats cutting through the BS.
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I think I made the point to Huff when I told him he didn't understand the South.
 
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#649
#649
Septic said:
Normally CW hits the nail on the head but I think he missed on his assessment of your troll game. I'm a connoisseur of the art and found your efforts wanting and bizarre.
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Now he's going to walk it back as a troll job. Remember when BOT did that about the whole "I won't fly with those of Arab heritage?"
 
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#650
#650
DinkinFlicka said:
Now he's going to walk it back as a troll job. Remember when BOT did that about the whole "I won't fly with those of Arab heritage?"
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Nah, he'll double down on his efforts. No doubt thinking he's being clever, the troll isn't even remotely transparent.

1972 Grad said:
I subjected myself to being called a pedophile by standing up for a good man doing the Lord's work.
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LOL, it's too much '72.

Pump the brakes.
 
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