New Head Coach or Clean house question ?

#26
#26
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Do you honestly think Debord has control of the offense? He runs what Butch tells him to run, from his "infallible" system.
You can blame injuries all you like for A&M and Alabama, you cannot blame injuries on the cluster**** we saw Saturday night. Butch is done.
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It's troubling, but it's one game. Don't be so dramatic.
 
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#27
#27
jwells said:
He lost almost every DT on the roster.
At least two starting corners
Starting Safety
2 starting Linebackers
Several backup players

The guy is playing with a stacked deck, and often backed up with a short field.
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Excuses. Even with a full deck he was nearly beat right out of the gate. He's nothing like what we expected quit holding on to the hope.
 
#28
#28
jwells said:
It's troubling, but it's one game. Don't be so dramatic.
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Lol. It's one game that Tennessee should have won easily. They sleep walked through it and got beat. That's on Jones and the coaches. He's 0for against Muschamp who's had arguably the worst teams in recent memory.
 
#29
#29
Wow, lots of knee jerk going on in this thread.
Here is my take.

I've given benefit of the doubt to Debord for a while. I'm no longer in that camp. I told myself that is was an OL problem and nobody could productive with the flood of defensive players coming into the backfield.

Doug Mathews summed it up nicely on Big Orange Sunday - get the ball into the hands of your playmakers early. Why is it only until the 4th quarter that J. Jennings gets touches.

Also, who else found it refreshing when J. Kelly didn't go down on the first hit and showed some speed and flash? Why not give him more touches?

So how does a coach get rid of his friend, and mentor? Answer is: He doesn't. What you do, is pull in a new AD with some cojones (Blackburn) who has the ear of people like the Haslams, and let him be the bad guy. Also, while your at it, get a QB coach and and someone that can fix the Achilles heel of the Vols for the last half decade, and that is the OL.

Also - there are a lot of dynamics at play here. I love Josh Dobbs as a leader and his heart as a player. He's put a lot of games on his shoulders and personally made some big plays in the clutch. He obviously wasn't "on" vs. South Carolina. Passes were way off. Could it be that he was upset because he knew JH was having an attitude problem, and had perhaps quit on him? When a player is tanking in a game, I ask, what would Saban do? Would he have put in Dormady for a while? Let Dobbs settle down some. I understand Jone's loyalty to Dobbs. I feel it too, but dang.. We lost the chance for SEC-e in Columbia. Lots riding on that game.

I think the team will get this sorted out and the season will be somewhat salvaged.. So, stay calm all.
 

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#30
#30
ptcarter said:
Wow, lots of knee jerk going on in this thread.
Here is my take.

I've given benefit of the doubt to Debord for a while. I'm no longer in that camp. I told myself that is was an OL problem and nobody could productive with the flood of defensive players coming into the backfield.

Doug Mathews summed it up nicely on Big Orange Sunday - get the ball into the hands of your playmakers early. Why is it only until the 4th quarter that J. Jennings gets touches.

Also, who else found it refreshing when J. Kelly didn't go down on the first hit and showed some speed and flash? Why not give him more touches?

So how does a coach get rid of his friend, and mentor? Answer is: He doesn't. What you do, is pull in a new AD with some cojones (Blackburn) who has the ear of people like the Haslams, and let him be the bad guy. Also, while your at it, get a QB coach and and someone that can fix the Achilles heel of the Vols for the last half decade, and that is the OL.

Also - there are a lot of dynamics at play here. I love Josh Dobbs as a leader and his heart as a player. He's put a lot of games on his shoulders and personally made some big plays in the clutch. He obviously wasn't "on" vs. South Carolina. Passes were way off. Could it be that he was upset because he knew JH was having an attitude problem, and had perhaps quit on him? When a player is tanking in a game, I ask, what would Saban do? Would he have put in Dormady for a while? Let Dobbs settle down some. I understand Jone's loyalty to Dobbs. I feel it too, but dang.. We lost the chance for SEC-e in Columbia. Lots riding on that game.

I think the team will get this sorted out and the season will be somewhat salvaged.. So, stay calm all.
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Spin it however you want but the season is lost. We had a chance to win the east and shat the bed Saturday night. That's on Jones and the coaches especially coming off a bye.
 
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#31
#31
Alabama makes Tennessee look stupid! As much as I hate Alabama. They know when to go all in and they did and now they are smelling like roses and we smell like fertilizer for being cheap. We got some change in our pockets now let talk to the donors go all in. The football program is the life blood of the entire school remember that.
 
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#32
#32
volmandu said:
First of all, I got blasted last night for reporting that 'Hurd is leaving the program'. Some wanted me banned on Volnation. Anyways, most local news outlets are confirming it now.

Now that Hurd is leaving, Kongbo has hung his cleats up, Preston Williams in gone and we may have few more leave, where do you see Tennessee heading from here:

a) Butch Jones is let go and we look for new Head Coach ? ==> Like it or not but Butch has stocked the talent pool enough to attract good Coaches. It is not a dumpster fire like Dooley left. However, getting rid of Butch may be very costly and we will be in market for HC along with many other big programs.

b) Butch Jones cleans house, including some coaches (OL ? WR ? OC ? ), starts fresh with new QB and looks forward to steering this ship in right direction.
==> It could work but depends on his attitude. He can not continue to be ultra conservative in play calling and horrible game manager. Who kicks a 58 yard FG with a kicker who has never made anything close to 45 yard in his career, that too with a season on the line ? Plus that was not the worst call he made in that game.

So which one do you guys prefer ? or think will be Tennessee's move forward ?
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A. But probably won't happen

Butch will be fired -- but when?

A: end of year--a lot of talent (unless we have a mass Exedus ) that a good coach would like to coach

B--3 -4 years when we are like the Dooley years because the talent stopped coming because they didn't want to play for a coach that can't coach

If you were doing the hiring when would you want to try to get a new coach?
 
#33
#33
New coach that runs a balanced pro set offense. This program is snake bit and it makes me sick.

Butch said this team will play super fast. No it doesn't! It gets to the LOS and starts clapping at the center letting defensive units adjust.

I don't know about y'all but give me a fast back behind a fullback a stud for a TE and about three world class speed WRs AND A QB THAT CAN THROW ACCURATELY!!!
 
#34
#34
New HC but doubt it happens this year. Not unless the entire team quits and we lose a couple more games. Even then they'd probably just make some other changes and give Butch another year.
 
#36
#36
What is wrong with an option C:

The team finally purges itself of the diva quitters and uses this whole experience as rallying cry for the remainder of the season. FL loses at the last second at Arky and then gets blown out by a surging LSU. Vols roll into the SEC championship game....
 
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#37
#37
ToptheTerrible said:
What is wrong with an option C:

The team finally purges itself of the diva quitters and uses this whole experience as rallying cry for the remainder of the season. FL loses at the last second at Arky and then gets blown out by a surging LSU. Vols roll into the SEC championship game....
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I like your thinking. Love to have what you're smoking. Bit let's be honest. The east is gone.
We may make a bowl game.
 
#39
#39
jltooter said:
I agree with some that say Butch Jones is not a "big time coach". He probably doesn't even belong in the Power 5. However he is a very good recruiter. What about going after a "big time coach" and keeping Butch on as head of recruiting and an assistant head coach? Thoughts?
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He is an above average recruiter, but poor developer, which makes him average at best.
 
#40
#40
Flipdaddy said:
New coach that runs a balanced pro set offense. This program is snake bit and it makes me sick.

Butch said this team will play super fast. No it doesn't! It gets to the LOS and starts clapping at the center letting defensive units adjust.

I don't know about y'all but give me a fast back behind a fullback a stud for a TE and about three world class speed WRs AND A QB THAT CAN THROW ACCURATELY!!!
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Playing "fast" on offense only works when you sustain drives. Seriously, have you seen a team that goes 3 and out quicker than Tennessee does?
 
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#42
#42
billford said:
I like your thinking. Love to have what you're smoking. Bit let's be honest. The east is gone.
We may make a bowl game.
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If you think this team 120 would be competitive in the east championship game, I want whatever you're smoking. We would be totally embarrassed...again. Best to live in reality, finish the season strong with Kelly blazing the way (as it always should have been).
 
#44
#44
Dudleys87 said:
What's he done to warrant keeping him?
He gives up yards like Wilcox did.
He beat Florida but at this point it's forgotten.
The guy isn't what Tennessee needs and this isn't the big 12
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Shoop is top notch. You will not find better. Give him a chance to recruit the players he needs for his system.
 
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#45
#45
Option A would be the best option then throw 3 million at Craig Bohl and watch Fundamentally great football. Three time national champ and turned around a cellar dweller.
 
#46
#46
Butch has an alarming number of transfers of 4/5* players... I think players get fed up with megaphone Butch's bull$hite.... Hard to say which way this goes, but it's feeling like '08 when we lost to Wyoming and Foster quit on the team... Dobbs poor play, bad personnel decisions, and injuries hurt this team... Butch should have gone 2-QB system this year, working Dormady in a passing package, LSU did it and started winning. I'm predicting 7-5 and Jones squarely on the hot seat next year. If he loses to UGA/UF both next year, should be gone.
 
#47
#47
jltooter said:
I agree with some that say Butch Jones is not a "big time coach". He probably doesn't even belong in the Power 5. However he is a very good recruiter. What about going after a "big time coach" and keeping Butch on as head of recruiting and an assistant head coach? Thoughts?
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3 million a year for a recruiting coordinator is not going to happen. And there isn't a single coach that would let their competitive ego slide them back for demotion. Butch would either leave to coach elsewhere or most likely take the buyout to be fired and then go coach somewhere else.
 
#48
#48
Dudleys87 said:
Excuses. Even with a full deck he was nearly beat right out of the gate. He's nothing like what we expected quit holding on to the hope.
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First 4 games:
App 292 yards, 13 pts - Lost JRM 1/2
VT 400 yds 24 pts - only gave up 10 in 2nd half, lost DKjr
Ohio 318 19pts - Lost Sutton, no DRjr, no Lewis, no Foreman, Lost JRM
Florida 402 28pts - No Sutton, no JRM, DKjr, etc


That's off the top of my head and doesn't include issues at DT during that span.

We've been short-handed out of the gate, but the D has stepped up. They allowed something like 24 2nd half points through 4 games.
 
#49
#49
I have no problem with Butch as a face man.
A game day coach he is not.
His coordinators determine his fate.
Shoop has done well considering his short tenure and massive losses to injury.
Its time to bring in an explosive OC who inspires recruits as I am sure the negative press will take its toll in recruiting.
 
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