New ‘Medicare-for-all’ bill would largely outlaw private insurance

#201
#201
luthervol said:
Republicans were never going to let Obamacare succeed. The adjustments and changes needed to improve Obamacare were blocked. Republicans based every decision on what would be most harmful to Obamacare. Health care was nothing more than a political chess piece to them. They had absolutely nothing and proved it during the first 2 years of Trump's administration.
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It was never going to succeed. Thats what you just fail to accept. Forcing Americans to buy healthcare by using fear tactics backfired. Just face the facts. Your savior only made the already broken healthcare system worse.
 
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#203
#203
This legislation won’t make it out of the Senate anyway, much less, survive a veto in the Oval Office. But the Dems are advertising their first move if they end up controlling the legislative and executive branches.
 
#204
#204
One little "insider" interjection:

Obviously my field isn't adult medicine, but hardly a day goes by that I don't see some example of suboptimal/mismanaged care by a mid-level provider at a retail-based or urgent care clinic. I could fill a novel-length book with details of incorrect diagnoses, missed conditions despite years of "exams," inappropriate antibiotic choices/understanding of microbiology, not following practice guidelines/standards, needless ordering of labs/imaging, etc.

In addition, the "supervising" physician is basically unreachable and often not located in the same city.

I am not opposed to well-trained MLPs working with/under close supervision of board-certified MDs. But, putting them on an island and in the care of patients they really aren't trained to understand and treat is not good medicine.
 
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#205
#205
luthervol said:
Republicans were never going to let Obamacare succeed. The adjustments and changes needed to improve Obamacare were blocked. Republicans based every decision on what would be most harmful to Obamacare. Health care was nothing more than a political chess piece to them. They had absolutely nothing and proved it during the first 2 years of Trump's administration.
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It's a multi-faceted problem and Obamacare mainly just tried to tackle access and finance.

Costs, competition, largely unaddressed.
 
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#206
#206
kiddiedoc said:
One little "insider" interjection:

Obviously my field isn't adult medicine, but hardly a day goes by that I don't see some example of suboptimal/mismanaged care by a mid-level provider at a retail-based or urgent care clinic. I could fill a novel-length book with details of incorrect diagnoses, missed conditions despite years of "exams," inappropriate antibiotic choices/understanding of microbiology, not following practice guidelines/standards, needless ordering of labs/imaging, etc.

In addition, the "supervising" physician is basically unreachable and often not located in the same city.

I am not opposed to well-trained MLPs working with/under close supervision of board-certified MDs. But, putting them on an island and in the care of patients they really aren't trained to understand and treat is not good medicine.
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I don’t understand the claim that they aren’t trained to treat or understand patients. Can you elaborate?
 
#207
#207
Velo Vol said:
It's a multi-faceted problem and Obamacare mainly just tried to tackle access and finance.

Costs, competition, largely unaddressed.
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Obamacare was the worst of both worlds. It was neither free market not socialism. It was corporatism. Anyone who thought forcing people to buy a product would lower the cost of that product was out of their mind.

Obamacare was further proof of why we need more market and less government. Because government is bought and paid for by the corporations.
 
#208
#208
Vol8188 said:
I don’t understand the claim that they aren’t trained to treat or understand patients. Can you elaborate?
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Many patients -- e.g. children, those with certain chronic conditions, etc -- cannot be treated the same as your average healthy adult. Also, many presenting complaints are beyond the scope of MLPs.

The biggest issues I have had, though, are mismanagement of what should be routine care.
 
#209
#209
luthervol said:
For profit insurance companies are only partially to blame. Non-profits will not put them out of business because non-profits make decisions based on what it best for the insured instead of what is best for the quarterly statement and the CEO.
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Non profits make decisions based on the best interest of the non profit. Not for anyone else. They aren’t ran much different then for profits.
 
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#210
#210
Vol8188 said:
Obamacare was the worst of both worlds. It was neither free market not socialism. It was corporatism. Anyone who thought forcing people to buy a product would lower the cost of that product was out of their mind.
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It does, if there's enough competition.
 
#211
#211
#215
#215
USMC-TNVOL said:
The third-leading cause of death in America most doctors don't want you to know about

Yeah. Let’s act like since we spend almost a fifth of our GDP on healthcare we are getting “what we paid for.” 3rd leading cause of death is due to medical errors. What a joke our healthcare is here.
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Medical errors are not going to decrease when we overwork these doctors by flooding the market with newly insured patients. If anything, Medicare for all will make the problem worse.

One simple answer the problem you’re mentioning is to change the way medical residents (I believe that’s the correct term). Many of them will work 24 hour shifts (possibly longer). Greatly increasing the odds of a major error.

And yes we do get what we pay for. If you want to survive cancer, this is the best place to be.
 
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#216
#216
luthervol said:
For profit insurance companies are only partially to blame. Non-profits will not put them out of business because non-profits make decisions based on what it best for the insured instead of what is best for the quarterly statement and the CEO.
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Ever heard of that little not for profit insurance company Bluecross?
 
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#217
#217
luthervol said:
For profit insurance companies are only partially to blame. Non-profits will not put them out of business because non-profits make decisions based on what it best for the insured instead of what is best for the quarterly statement and the CEO.
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If what you’re claiming were true, non profits would have already put for profits out of business. People would see that they were getting a better quality of care for their money. But that’s not the case.

So maybe you need to rethink one of your variables. Perhaps that 50% profit you were talking about isn’t the issue
 
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#219
#219
Mick said:
Didn't read the story but heard a little about it. Do you know what American doctors could have done the the others couldn't. Was it "experimental"?
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The kid was offered free treatment in another European country and the English denied it. They would mot allow anyone into the country to help.

These people basically decided the fate of this child. Now, I can't recall the problem, and/or ultimately if the child could be saved, but, to have people telling you NO to any chance of trying.....

If I were the parents, sorry to say, but I would have found each member of the panel and I would have kidnapped their child and told them on video cam they had 5 minutes to kill themselves on the same feed or their child dies.

Terrible thought, yes, but, that is what these pos mother pluckers did. They wouldn't allow any type of alternative help, so, to me, they are solely responsible for the death of my child. So, I'll give them the same treatment and let them decide if their child is worth saving, at least I'm giving them the chance to save theirs.
 
#220
#220
C-south said:
Then the government needs to get in on the housing market with limits, 100% rent control, food rationing, cap auto prices, etc. Everyone will live the dream.....even those not willing to work like the idiot representative from NY wants.
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Yes! I want a brand new F150 Platinum and I think the Gov should sale these at a $5,000 cap.


Am I doing it right?
 
#221
#221
How many people didn't see this coming? The ACA was just the first step in a nationalized single payor healthcare system. There were even those at the time of passage that knew it would fail and the government could get what they wanted all along.
 
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#224
#224
USMC-TNVOL said:
The third-leading cause of death in America most doctors don't want you to know about

Yeah. Let’s act like since we spend almost a fifth of our GDP on healthcare we are getting “what we paid for.” 3rd leading cause of death is due to medical errors. What a joke our healthcare is here.
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Reading back through here it seems we are talking about Dr.s in the general sense and the care you get when you or if you will be able to see them in their offices under a national health care system . What I’m not seeing if talk of hospitals , labs , interns , residents and nurses . @kiddiedoc i believe was talking about misdiagnosed patients and writing books about it , you could write two novels on what interns and residents overorder , miss or misdiagnose in hospitals . Is there one person on here that thinks when you nationalize health care that you will get better care in hostipals or even the level care you are getting now . What would Keep hospitals from just turning into VA programs ?
 
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