Need clarification: really confused

#1
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SmokeyHound

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#1
Alright this is the last time anyone will talk about these things:
Did Derek Dooley appeal the horrible calls and what were the results?
Were the refs from the horribly officiated game last year of Florida Arkansas?
Did lsu have 13 men on the field too?
Did the lsu dude really throw his helmet on the ground during the play was still going?
Thanks guys. On the ref one it would e great if someone had a link. Thanks guys
 
#2
#2
SmokeyHound said:
Alright this is the last time anyone will talk about these things:
Did Derek Dooley appeal the horrible calls and what were the results?
Were the refs from the horribly officiated game last year of Florida Arkansas?
Did lsu have 13 men on the field too?
Did the lsu dude really throw his helmet on the ground during the play was still going?
Thanks guys. On the ref one it would e great if someone had a link. Thanks guys
Click to expand...

He sent in questions about some calls, which he does every week.

I believe Wes Rucker said 7 of the 14 officials were from that game.

Not when the ball was snapped.

Yes, but we also had people running on the field while the ball was live.
 
#3
#3
Can I add one more. . .Was there really an illegal shift (or others were calling it illegal snap) by LSU on that play?
 
#4
#4
I hate to say it, but none of that matters now. Ideally, the SEC would take a look into it themselves but I highly doubt they will.
 
#5
#5
yes
yes
no
yes

and it was an illegal shift by LSU or offside. take your pick.

But UT still lost.
 
#7
#7
Then after all of this said shouldn't the shift and 13 men offset and the throwing of the helmet put a 15 yard penalty on LSU on the final play that got the win .... I know alot of people say forget it but this is two games where helmets are removed before the game is over ( Alabama and LSU ) and Tennessee is put on the losing side .... I think people have a right to grumble as much as they want
 
#9
#9
1. The helmet against Alabama doesn't change the outcome of that game. If they had enforced the penalty: The blocked kick makes it a change of posession, which gives AL the ball, then you mark off a 15 YD penalty, and they snap and take a knee, we still lose. That penalty does not give us another kick.

2. The helmet against LSU didn't get called because the penalty for too many players is a deadball foul, which nullifies anything that happens after the snap; the play, the helmet, etc. are all void because of the dead ball foul prior to the snap.

(I am pretty sure that is how both were explained to me, NOTE:this could be wrong, if you can recite the rule book and prove me wrong, great)

If we get the 4th and 1, or STOP THE 4th and 14, none of this matters...... Live and Learn.

LSU knows they lost, and Les Miles is the worst Head Coach in the country!!!!

GBO!!!!
 
#10
#10
volingreensboro said:
1. The helmet against Alabama doesn't change the outcome of that game. If they had enforced the penalty: The blocked kick makes it a change of posession, which gives AL the ball, then you mark off a 15 YD penalty, and they snap and take a knee, we still lose. That penalty does not give us another kick.

2. The helmet against LSU didn't get called because the penalty for too many players is a deadball foul, which nullifies anything that happens after the snap; the play, the helmet, etc. are all void because of the dead ball foul prior to the snap.

(I am pretty sure that is how both were explained to me, NOTE:this could be wrong, if you can recite the rule book and prove me wrong, great)

If we get the 4th and 1, or STOP THE 4th and 14, none of this matters...... Live and Learn.

LSU knows they lost, and Les Miles is the worst Head Coach in the country!!!!

GBO!!!!
Click to expand...

The helmet penelty would have been enforced no matter what. A personal foul always gets enforced.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#11
#11
I don't care about the helmet. What everybody should be pissed about is the illegal shift noncall. The refs were to busy watching what we were doing to make sure LSU did it right.
 
#16
#16
volingreensboro said:
1. The helmet against Alabama doesn't change the outcome of that game. If they had enforced the penalty: The blocked kick makes it a change of posession, which gives AL the ball, then you mark off a 15 YD penalty, and they snap and take a knee, we still lose. That penalty does not give us another kick.

2. The helmet against LSU didn't get called because the penalty for too many players is a deadball foul, which nullifies anything that happens after the snap; the play, the helmet, etc. are all void because of the dead ball foul prior to the snap.

(I am pretty sure that is how both were explained to me, NOTE:this could be wrong, if you can recite the rule book and prove me wrong, great)

If we get the 4th and 1, or STOP THE 4th and 14, none of this matters...... Live and Learn.

LSU knows they lost, and Les Miles is the worst Head Coach in the country!!!!

GBO!!!!
Click to expand...

The removed helmet in both situations could be enforced. Both penalties happened while the ball was live and behind the line of scrimage. The ball must be downed by contact in both situations to end the play. The ball is live until it is recovered, knocked out of bounds or the whistle blow when it is in the offensive back field.

The only exception to this happens in most high school football rule books. On an extra point attempt, the ball is essentially dead once it is kicked. Kicks blocked behind the line of scrimage are dead and blocked kicks that cross the goal line are dead.

1. The LSU center threw his helmet before the ball was recovered. Illegal participation can nullify a play but is not a dead ball foul.
2. Against Alabama, the blocked kick never crossed the line of scrimage. That ball would also be "live" until it was recovered or knocked out of bounds. Cody's helmet came off before either of these things happened.

With all of that being said, there is not an official in college football that is going to make that call. They would never work another game. There are certain penalties that can be reviewed and Tennessee committed one of them.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
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#19
#19
JeepJeep said:
really?

I've replayed it a dozen times, and the first person that moves is the center hiking the ball. Everybody else is set.
Click to expand...

Watch the Right Tackle.

As far as i'm aware, the 13 men is only called post-snap. The illegal shift is pre-snap so the ref would have stopped the play before the snap, resulting in a penalty against LSU and no penalty for UT. You cant be called on having 13 men if the play never gets snapped.
 
#20
#20
I am not seeing this "illegal shift" wouldn't it technically be a false start on the RT?
 
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#23
#23
Vitharr said:
Yes it would, watch his back leg before the snap.
Click to expand...


1st of all, movement of a leg would be false start not illegal shift.

I've played it again, and again. He is simple setting himself. There is not false start, there is no illegal shift, and they do not have more than 11 men on the field.

People.... WE HAD 13 MEN ON THE FIELD!!!!
 
#24
#24
I never claimed it would be an illegal shift.

Players on the LoS need to be set for at least one second prior to the snap.
 
#25
#25
memvol said:
The removed helmet in both situations could be enforced. Both penalties happened while the ball was live and behind the line of scrimage. The ball must be downed by contact in both situations to end the play. The ball is live until it is recovered, knocked out of bounds or the whistle blow when it is in the offensive back field.


2. Against Alabama, the blocked kick never crossed the line of scrimage. That ball would also be "live" until it was recovered or knocked out of bounds. Cody's helmet came off before either of these things happened.

With all of that being said, there is not an official in college football that is going to make that call. They would never work another game. There are certain penalties that can be reviewed and Tennessee committed one of them.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Actually, unsportsmanlike conduct is always treated as a dead ball foul even if it occured during the play. So the result of the play stands, and then fifteen yards is marked off. In the case of the Cody block, Alabama recovered the blocked kick and the clock expired. Since Alabama was now on offense, the penalty would not have even required Bama to take a knee. The result of the play was Bama ball and the end of the game.

Hebert's helmet toss might have made a difference on Saturday since there would have been another play. But one could just as easily argue that his penalty would have been offset by the players leaving Tennessee's sideline. So the illegal substitution would have still been the only foul enforced.
 
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