Name,Image,and Likeness has begun

Amb3096

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They're definitely gifted with genetic advantages (and have put in hard work, too), but I wonder about the reality beneath all of this. I know most people don't care, but when you're using out-and-out presentations of sexual appeal to build an audience which will tolerate being marketed at in exchange for looking at your butt ... I don't know, something about tying that to college kids representing schools is difficult to put together. It's not atypical in today's society, and I don't begrudge the girls making bank, but I wonder where we're headed with all of this.
I don't think anything they are doing is putting Fresno State in a compromising position. It's not like the twins are doing porn. They do mostly dance videos while making sure to show off their good looks. They have a couple of videos where they are in their playing gear, but most of them are at their parent's house. I have to say that in addition to some of their dancing, there are some impressive basketball videos they did, like this one.



The whole social media influencer thing is really smoke and mirrors, but there's no denying that there is money to be made. Sometimes short term, others have made it long term.
 

VA_VOLFAN

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In the case of the Cavinder twins, they pulled off being the star players on their team AND social media darlings. They might have to give up other things in their lives to maintain their brand and their game, but it depends on how much work they're willing to put in.
I just checked their tiktok and they already have a deal in place u believe (but i am confused because i thought the date was july 1). the deal is with icon images and also i had to google their tiktok because i don’t have one 🤣
 
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Amb3096

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I just checked their tiktok and they already have a deal in place u believe (but i am confused because i thought the date was july 1). the deal is with icon images and also i had to google their tiktok because i don’t have one 🤣
I don't think Icon is a sponsor. It sounds like they are basically a matchmaking service for athletes interested in sponsorship deals and companies looking for marketable athletes.

I don't have Tik Tok either. Not my thing and I'm certainly not the target audience for such a platform, but I wish I was 30 years younger and a better dancer. Then maybe I wouldn't still be at a 9-5 lol.
 
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Voltopia

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I don't think anything they are doing is putting Fresno State in a compromising position. It's not like the twins are doing porn. They do mostly dance videos while making sure to show off their good looks. They have a couple of videos where they are in their playing gear, but most of them are at their parent's house. I have to say that in addition to some of their dancing, there are some impressive basketball videos they did, like this one.

The whole social media influencer thing is really smoke and mirrors, but there's no denying that there is money to be made. Sometimes short term, others have made it long term.
I mean, they've also posted some risque photos where they're exaggerating their rear ends and sticking out their tongues to suggest whatever imaginary thing you can think of. I leave that to the reader to work out the details. Most of their stuff is basketball, yes, but they're tweaking the dial to garner attention where they can. That's not unique to them, by any means. If you go on Twitch or cruise Tik Tok you'll find tens of thousands of young women doing the same. Dudes do it too but frankly their market potential usually lies elsewhere.

Regardless, my point is not really as much about them as much as it is the social apparatuses that have brought us to this place, and what it says about us and how we're raising people now. I know people have always exploited the beauty of youth, but the internet has refined this down to its most base process. These girls are just taking advantage. I'm not judging them for that. I am sort of judging us for it a little though, and thinking about school representatives doing such things. And really, just the question of -- let me put it this way. I wonder how Pat would feel about a player doing stuff like that but also playing for her and for Tennessee. I'm not invoking her name to tilt the discussion, but just, as a coach and a surrogate mother to her players, I wonder what she would think or say. And moreover, I wonder what it says if you have someone who represents your school as a student athlete but spends weekends farming thirsty folks on social media. I'm no prude, but that's why I said I just wonder where this is headed.
 

Amb3096

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I mean, they've also posted some risque photos where they're exaggerating their rear ends and sticking out their tongues to suggest whatever imaginary thing you can think of. I leave that to the reader to work out the details. Most of their stuff is basketball, yes, but they're tweaking the dial to garner attention where they can. That's not unique to them, by any means. If you go on Twitch or cruise Tik Tok you'll find tens of thousands of young women doing the same. Dudes do it too but frankly their market potential usually lies elsewhere.

Regardless, my point is not really as much about them as much as it is the social apparatuses that have brought us to this place, and what it says about us and how we're raising people now. I know people have always exploited the beauty of youth, but the internet has refined this down to its most base process. These girls are just taking advantage. I'm not judging them for that. I am sort of judging us for it a little though, and thinking about school representatives doing such things. And really, just the question of -- let me put it this way. I wonder how Pat would feel about a player doing stuff like that but also playing for her and for Tennessee. I'm not invoking her name to tilt the discussion, but just, as a coach and a surrogate mother to her players, I wonder what she would think or say. And moreover, I wonder what it says if you have someone who represents your school as a student athlete but spends weekends farming thirsty folks on social media. I'm no prude, but that's why I said I just wonder where this is headed.
They were already doing it even before they got the opportunity to monetize it. DiDi Richards and Chelsea Dungee have spent the last few years showcasing their good looks (face and body) on their IG pages, even if they weren't getting paid. If Brittany Jackson were born 20 years ago and playing today, I have a hard time thinking she wouldn't be taking advantage of her looks to make some money. There weren't as many mediums available for her to leverage, but she had her fair share of thirst trap photo shoots that had nothing to do with her basketball game. I also think that in 2021, there is less taboo for young woman to embrace their sexuality. W.A.P. was on top of the music charts for a while, and I'm no prude either, but that song was just gross. Try saying that to the millenials and Gen Zers, and you get dismissed as an out-of-touch fossil. If peak CPS was still here today, I think that she would roll with the times, as long as the player's extracurricular activities weren't interfering with their practice, academics or game performance. JMO.
 

Voltopia

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They were already doing it even before they got the opportunity to monetize it. DiDi Richards and Chelsea Dungee have spent the last few years showcasing their good looks (face and body) on their IG pages, even if they weren't getting paid. If Brittany Jackson were born 20 years ago and playing today, I have a hard time thinking she wouldn't be taking advantage of her looks to make some money. There weren't as many mediums available for her to leverage, but she had her fair share of thirst trap photo shoots that had nothing to do with her basketball game. I also think that in 2021, there is less taboo for young woman to embrace their sexuality. W.A.P. was on top of the music charts for a while, and I'm no prude either, but that song was just gross. Try saying that to the millenials and Gen Zers, and you get dismissed as an out-of-touch fossil. If peak CPS was still here today, I think that she would roll with the times, as long as the player's extracurricular activities weren't interfering with their practice, academics or game performance. JMO.
Oh I definitely thought of Brittany Jackson at the start of this conversation. And Jennie Finch. And a few other players. Mainly in the sense of "oh man they would have made a fortune."

I agree about the grossness of that song and the attitude of younger people with respect to this downward trend. There is almost no taboo now, or very little if any. Being measured in this area has almost no value. It's fascinating to see the simultaneous protest to the objectification set beside the intensifying objectification of people. If it has no value then why should anyone value it at all? Ah. I wonder. 'cause you can't have cake and eat it too on this one. But. In any case. I wonder if you're right about Pat. I feel like she would be a hawk about the "not interfering" part. You're either on this team or you're a model, but you better pick. I would imagine she would weed most of this out - what is it? You don't have to look great to be a great basketball player. Probably put a premium on the ones who were fully committed.
 
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madtownvol

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Oh I definitely thought of Brittany Jackson at the start of this conversation. And Jennie Finch. And a few other players. Mainly in the sense of "oh man they would have made a fortune."

I agree about the grossness of that song and the attitude of younger people with respect to this downward trend. There is almost no taboo now, or very little if any. Being measured in this area has almost no value. It's fascinating to see the simultaneous protest to the objectification set beside the intensifying objectification of people. If it has no value then why should anyone value it at all? Ah. I wonder. 'cause you can't have cake and eat it too on this one. But. In any case. I wonder if you're right about Pat. I feel like she would be a hawk about the "not interfering" part. You're either on this team or you're a model, but you better pick. I would imagine she would weed most of this out - what is it? You don't have to look great to be a great basketball player. Probably put a premium on the ones who were fully committed.
Every older generation looks at the current culture scene and declares our morals are gone, we have become debased, KIDS today tsk, tsk, where have our traditional values gone? And they do so while forgetting hat when they were younger, their youth culture was similarly decried for its lack of morals (this goes back to Elvis's hips!). [Just what were you doing back in the day?]

The kids are alright, they are just a lot more media savvy and have more options than their generational predecessors.
 
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Voltopia

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Every older generation looks at the current culture scene and declares our morals are gone, we have become debased, KIDS today tsk, tsk, where have our traditional values gone? And they do so while forgetting hat when they were younger, their youth culture was similarly decried for its lack of morals (this goes back to Elvis's hips!). [Just what were you doing back in the day?]

The kids are alright, they are just a lot more media savvy and have more options than their generational predecessors.
I'm sorry but if you think Elvis's hips are the same as that woman singing that song and bouncing her business at the Grammys last year then I don't know what to say. Oh, if this sounds like a hangup about women, I want to add it could have been a dude bouncing his butthole and I would feel the same way. Just because "every older generation" decries the morals of the next generation doesn't make that older generation automatically wrong and the kids automatically right. And acting like it's business as usual ignores the severe impact of the internet on society. The pervasiveness of always-on technology is a change unlike any in history. There's no analog for this. You can't pull out a history book and point to anything that's equivalent. "See, they always say that." Not the same. This creation that manipulates and programs people to respond to their worst tendencies, it is not a thing we've seen before - or let basically raise two generations of young people. But here we are. And the psychological impact the internet has on people of every generation is pronounced.
 

Amb3096

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Oh I definitely thought of Brittany Jackson at the start of this conversation. And Jennie Finch. And a few other players. Mainly in the sense of "oh man they would have made a fortune."

I agree about the grossness of that song and the attitude of younger people with respect to this downward trend. There is almost no taboo now, or very little if any. Being measured in this area has almost no value. It's fascinating to see the simultaneous protest to the objectification set beside the intensifying objectification of people. If it has no value then why should anyone value it at all? Ah. I wonder. 'cause you can't have cake and eat it too on this one. But. In any case. I wonder if you're right about Pat. I feel like she would be a hawk about the "not interfering" part. You're either on this team or you're a model, but you better pick. I would imagine she would weed most of this out - what is it? You don't have to look great to be a great basketball player. Probably put a premium on the ones who were fully committed.
Ace Clement was the other Tennessee player I can think of that dolled herself up on the court...hair, makeup, nails. I remember a story from her playing time where she caught CPS staring at her freshly painted nails. She said, she wanted to look pretty, and CPS said that she didn't care if she was pretty; she wanted her to be tough. Of course, this was also some 20+ years ago. CPS probably wouldn't have liked the rolling up the shorts and wearing lashes/weaves back then either, but it's pretty common place today. I don't think a coach in America would tell someone like Anriel Howard that you're either on the team or a model, but not both. I would guess that Kim Mulkey is a hard-ass to play for, but she let DiDi have her fun with off-court modeling shoots while still being the cog that made her team go.

I hear @madtownvol's point and agree to an extent, but I draw a line at WAP. It was unnecessarily vulgar...just like some of the 2 Live Crew **** I used to listen to when I was in my "rebellious" phase that is equally vulgar. I probably wouldn't have bothered if not for the warning sticker. It pains me to say that my parents were right. Sorry mom and dad... The objectification thing is 100% wanting your cake and eating it too. We are animals, and if you flaunt it, then you will get stared at. It's perfectly natural, and to expect otherwise is just being unreasonable...as long as you abide by the door rules: "No hands"
 
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madtownvol

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I'm sorry but if you think Elvis's hips are the same as that woman singing that song and bouncing her business at the Grammys last year then I don't know what to say. Oh, if this sounds like a hangup about women, I want to add it could have been a dude bouncing his butthole and I would feel the same way. Just because "every older generation" decries the morals of the next generation doesn't make that older generation automatically wrong and the kids automatically right. And acting like it's business as usual ignores the severe impact of the internet on society. The pervasiveness of always-on technology is a change unlike any in history. There's no analog for this. You can't pull out a history book and point to anything that's equivalent. "See, they always say that." Not the same. This creation that manipulates and programs people to respond to their worst tendencies, it is not a thing we've seen before - or let basically raise two generations of young people. But here we are. And the psychological impact the internet has on people of every generation is pronounced.
Actually, in the context of the 1950's, Elvis was considered much worse as churches organized burnings of his records and he was seen as corrupting America's youth by exposing them to "black music."
There was lot of talk about how Elvis was going to encourage the moral degredation and even miscegenation of the white race.


Madonna (now in her 60's) played the risque card in the 1980's and among others. And the beat goes on. The disco scene of the 1970's was not exactly a church social either.

But, I really don't consider sexuality our "worst tendencies." Call me old fashion, but I think the recurrent glorification of violence is probably more problematic.
 
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Majors

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Hercy Miller, incoming Tennessee State freshman and son of Master P, is signing deal with Web Apps America...
for $2 million

Miller will be a brand ambassador for the tech company, who's committed to supporting HBCU leaders.
 
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jakeaaal

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A serious question. How does NIL relate to political demonstrations by atheletes , in particular kneeling during the national anthem, affect the Lady Vols? Will that act cost them money? Or will atheletes wave flags at every opportunity, for instance, like George Foreman at the Olympics? Will sponsors demand certain behaviors on and off the court/playing field?
 

madtownvol

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A serious question. How does NIL relate to political demonstrations by atheletes , in particular kneeling during the national anthem, affect the Lady Vols? Will that act cost them money? Or will atheletes wave flags at every opportunity, for instance, like George Foreman at the Olympics? Will sponsors demand certain behaviors on and off the court/playing field?
I think for most athletes, NIL will be done via direct marketing between a players social media and fans, buy my -t-shirts, signed memorabilia etc.

Per the sponsorship, if you are under 40, kneeling generally does not push the "outrage" button, so sure some companies might steer clear but there are plenty of others who would have no issue.

Just remember this NIL agreement is only provisional until the NCAA sets a firm policy. In the interim, the NCAA will try to get an anti-trust exemption so that the supreme court ruling would not apply to them. If so granted, the NCAA could make NIL go away.
 
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Voltopia

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A serious question. How does NIL relate to political demonstrations by atheletes , in particular kneeling during the national anthem, affect the Lady Vols? Will that act cost them money? Or will atheletes wave flags at every opportunity, for instance, like George Foreman at the Olympics? Will sponsors demand certain behaviors on and off the court/playing field?
Demonstrations and protests aren't related to NIL, so the potential earnings people will gain or lose will depend on the attitudes of both their corporate partners and their brand audiences. Protesting is trendy right now, so I imagine schools will tolerate some degree of it at their events so long as those protests remains nonintrusive.
 
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jakeaaal

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Demonstrations and protests aren't related to NIL, so the potential earnings people will gain or lose will depend on the attitudes of both their corporate partners and their brand audiences. Protesting is trendy right now, so I imagine schools will tolerate some degree of it at their events so long as those protests remains nonintrusive.
I disagree. If you play sports and want endorsements you had best appeal to the customer. Kneeling is at least disrespectful for 50% of the populace. I suspect most endorsements will come from local businesses and that act could trigger a response that happened with East Tennessee State basketball and the car dealer. Few players will get national sponsors so local businesses will call the tun e.
 
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I disagree. If you play sports and want endorsements you had best appeal to the customer. Kneeling is at least disrespectful for 50% of the populace. I suspect most endorsements will come from local businesses and that act could trigger a response that happened with East Tennessee State basketball and the car dealer. Few players will get national sponsors so local businesses will call the tun e.
Not going to get hung up about the kneeling issue but it seems to me if the support comes from local businesses, this thing could turn into another recruiting battleground. I can see players factoring in which areas have the best player endorsements.
 
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