My thoughts on the game

#1
Freak

Freak

VolNation's Grand Poobah
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#1
Well I have just now settled down enough to come back here on VolNation. I spent Friday in the Georgia Dome watching my Vols get outplayed for the second year in a row. After all of the talk by the coaches and players we got outplayed. The officiating was absolutely some of the worst I have seen. Either way we still did not deserve to win. The thing that really bothers me the most is our staff seems to make excuses and try to explain things away. For once I would like to see Fulmer get mad and embarrassed and take some responsibility.

On the way home from the game I said that if Jimmy Ray Stephens is on this staff next year then I am not going to a single game. I am sure I will get over it by the time next year rolls around but that is my biggest wish for next year.

I have been watching some of the replays on CSS of our teams from the 90s and it is really hard to believe how far we have fallen since then. I had forgotten that defensive lineman were allowed to sack the QB.

Oh well, enough of my rambling. How bout those basketball vols? Has anyone looked at our January schedule? It could be a very long month.
 
#2
#2
I feel your pain Freak . . . I too paid to see that debacle.

When you get so thoroughly beaten it's easy to armchair QB. The most troubling thing to me is that it seemed as though the coaching staff just threw up their hands when they gameplanned and decided not to even try to run the ball. I know we played from behind all night, but 55 passing attempts and 10 rushes for Clausen compared to only 14 carries spread out among 4 RB's seems insane. We played the whole first series without a TE or fullback and Troy Flemming at RB?? Clausen singlehandedly kept it from becoming a blowout.

We played bad, got bad calls and then lost our composure. Heck we missed a 35 yard field goal, but I saw a guy walk out of the stands at halftime and hit a 40 yarder with $250,000 on the line!?!? (BTW - with all these contests, I think it behooves all of us to practice throwing and kicking before we attend any game.)

The nice win at UMASS last night made me feel a little better though. :disappointed:
 
#3
#3
It really was suprising that we did not run the ball more. Fulmer usually sticks with the run, even from behind. I guess he has finally realized that it's pointless since our line can't run block to save their lives. I also think you have to lay some of the blame on the backs. Whatever the case may be, Tennessee football means being able to run the football. Fulmer has either got to figure out how to run the ball better or he needs to be more creative in the offense to offset our one dimensional play.

We need leadership on this team in a bad way and I don't mean someone who can make quotes in the paper. We need a leader on the field who gets in players faces and makes them accountable. You can't lay all the blame on the offense. Our defense did not come out and set the tone like they should and it took us until halftime to make any kind of adjustments. For whatever reason our defense does not seem very physical. It seems to be built around finesse and speed.

I keep hearing from people who watched the game on TV that Banks and Leak were laughing and cutting up on the sidelines when Casey was running for his life. Did anyone else see this? If this is true then I am very disappointed. If I was Fulmer I would punish both players, maybe even suspend them for the first game or two of 2004. Did Banks even play in the first half?

As for hoops, that was a nice win last night but I still don't feel very good about our BB team. I hope I am wrong but I think January is going to be a very tough month for those guys. It all starts with UGA on Wednesday night.
 
#4
#4
Gentlemen (and Ladies),
The first few comments by volfreak and GAvol have commented on the piss poor offensive play, and the fact that we totally went away from the run, as well as some of the worst officiating i've seen in recent history (not that we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot because we lost our heads and our focus, but also some of the pass interference calls made me want to rethink whether or not we were watching a flag football game or a tiddlywinks match!). I can't remember the last time I saw such a lopsided amount of major penalty calls UT: 10-119 CLEMSON: 6-45!
Let us not forget that allot of our bread-n-butter is on the defensive side of the ball, not that this year has been normal for us in any respect. I couldn not believe how SHI**Y we played the run. I could have been a parapalegic with one flat wheelchair tire and still gotten through the line for more than my share of positive yards. Sweet jesus, we allowed Chad Jasmin, a guy who ran for a whopping 393 yards all season long and no more than 80 yards in any one game this season , just totally dismantle our defensive line for a stat line that was 1/3 of his seasons total rushing yards.

I can't talk anymore, I apologize for my rambling... This reminds me of a quote from Billy Madison:

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul" ..The Principal


I will just drown my sorrows in the Titans success..GO TITANS!
 
#5
#5
Originally posted by VOLifornia@Jan 4 2004, 01:54 PM
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul" ..The Principal
Click to expand...

:lolup: :lolup: :lolup:

I love that quote. That is one of my favorite movie lines of all time.

I agree that this was a team loss by the offense and defense but at least the defense contributed some this year. You also have to think that many of our defensive woes come from a lack of talent/experience on the d-line imo. While our o-line was highly touted and underachieved all year long. I think I am rambling now. The bottom line is that we are just not very good on either side of the ball and I think it starts with the lines.
 
#6
#6
Originally posted by vol_freak@Jan 4 2004, 06:15 PM

I keep hearing from people who watched the game on TV that Banks and Leak were laughing and cutting up on the sidelines when Casey was running for his life. Did anyone else see this? If this is true then I am very disappointed. If I was Fulmer I would punish both players, maybe even suspend them for the first game or two of 2004. Did Banks even play in the first half?
Click to expand...

It's true. I posted on another board about it and got lambasted for it. Is it too much to ask that the PLAYERS be as upset about being behind as the fans are??
 
#7
#7
Freak, Banks did not play the first half becaues he was suspended by Fulmer for an unspecificed violation of team rules and it was stated that the violation did not take place in the 24 hours leading up to the game. It was not announced until 30 minutes before kickoff.
 
#8
#8
I am still trying to shake off the horrific feelings of despondency that decended on me long before the game ended and "the die was cast." This one, my friends, really hurts. The helmsman, Fulmer, doesn't seem to grasp a very fundamental axiom involved with the continuing, year in and year out, administration of a sizable group of people (Coaches and players alike) who continue to taste remarkable success when compared to just about all the other programs out there. (Of course they are going to be successfull to some admirable degree. Look at the talent, facilities, etc.)

As an administator myself for over 20 years, I have learned from experience that no matter how good your people are, no matter how much you are all acheiving, the worst thing you can do is to start to "rest on your Laurels," feel good about the status quo, and fall into the deadly belief that "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

I have seen some really talented departments fall into this trap. (Okay, I work for the UT System on the academic side of things..) Sure, they continue to do okay, but they never grasp onto their potential GREATNESS and keep redefining the idea of GREATNESS for them. Any group simply has to be challenged with positive and well thought out change every three to four years to avoid satagnation and stultification. Pyschiatric science has proven this beyond debate. The discipline even goes so far as to say that to be truly productive, employees need to change jobs once every three years to remain at peak performance mentally.

If anyone gets my drift here, Fulmer has everything he needs at UT to join the ranks of the great ones. I don't really think coaching changes are all that essential. If Fulmer had come in after the 1998 championship and said, " Okay coaches, I want a drastically changed play book for next year, and let's evaluate all aspects of our practices and strength training. WE ARE GOING TO MAKE SOME CHANGES BECAUSE i DON'T WANT ANY OPPONENT TO HAVE THE LUXURY OF PREPARING FOR THE SAME TEAM AND PLAY BOOK THEY SAW OUT HERE TONIGHT."

Believe me, if Fulmer took that approach, he wouldn't have to fire sub-par assistants. They would leave. When Fulmer finally got a bunch of coaches around him that loved this approach and welcomed the new even though it meant a hell of a lot of work, our program would acheive the highest level possible and would stay there. I've seen this happen and I've seen it not happen in the real world. Believe me, what I am describing here is hard as hell to do, but it can be done consistently and the rewards are unbelievable.

Just my thoughts. Tear me asunder if you wish.
 
#9
#9
samanderson I can understand what you are saying and maybe their could be some truth to it. The bottom line is that no one really knows what the problem is and that is the problem in my mind. Fulmer knows a lot more about football than any of us. Fulmer loves the Vols as much or more than any of us. Fulmer works harder (I can only speak for those of who I know) than any of us. Fulmer knows more about this group of players and coaches than any of us. I know that Fulmer wants to win as much or more than any of us. I don't think he really knows what the problem is. We seem to play well in close games but we have gotten beat badly too many times recently. The only thing I do know is that it is idiotic to do the same things over and over and expect different results. I hope we see some staff changes, but I am not holding my breath.
 
#10
#10
Very well stated, Freak. I have also wondered on many occasions if the absence of new, inventive changes might be due to the heavy nepotism on the "Hill." Among us humans, if we end up breeding throughout a limited gene pool, all kinds of afflictions descend upon us.

I just hope this doesn't drag on out to the end we are witnessing at Penn State. Anyway, I can guarantee you that Fulmer has pondered each and every idea that has been posted in this forum long before any of us took time to articulate them.

Let's hope the basketball teams give us some excitement.

Have a good one@!!
 
#11
#11
Freak said, "I don't think he really knows what the problem is. "

Yes! Throughout all of my misinterpreted rantings, this is all I have been saying.

We can't do the same things over and over and expect different results. Fulmer either doesn't know the problem, does but won't tell us, or thinks he knows but can't fix it. No matter.

He does continually offer some guidance as to his thoughts on the matter. His thoughts? Talent is down. Translation? It is clear we're good coaches, so it must be the players.

Top three common answers after a UT loss:

1) We helped them a lot
2) We didn't execute
3) We need to get back to playing Tennessee Football

None of those answers have any real meaning. Translation? It is clear we're good coaches, so it must be the players.

Clemson loss:

1) They're a good team, but we helped them a lot
2) The penalties really hurt us
3) There were plays to be made, we just didn't make them
4) The receivers missed a lot of routes
5) We were prepared for everything they did

Sound familiar? What do these answers all have in common? IT IS CLEAR WE'RE GOOD COACHES, SO IT MUST BE THE PLAYERS.

What this all amounts to is: 1) He isn't a good enough football coach to know the answers, 2) Continuously blaming the players is simply a cop-out, and 3) they were lulled into thinking they were good coaches because they are used to an overwhelming talent advantage.

Or maybe, the better answer to this quagmire is more conspiratorial. Perhaps, John Cooper, Mack Brown, and Phil Fulmer are all the same person!!!! Yes! That's it! They lay eggs in big games, make tons of mistakes, act as if there isn't a problem, and take 12-1 teams and turn them into 10-3 teams!!!!!!!!

Sources: Oklahoma 65 Texas 13; Arkansas 45 Texas 20?; Michigan versus OSU; FLA versus TN; Bowl game opponent versus TN; Richt and Saban versus TN.

-Vol Star

P.S. I wonder if ESPN would be interested in the scoop that we've uncovered? I can see it now: "Fulmer inidicted for indentity fraud. Cooper and Brown names were stolen from homeless men - used for mediocre coaching cover-up."
 
#12
#12
I haven't read thru all the posts since the game, so if this is repetitive, forgive me...but I think this was more of a game about padding certain players' stats than anything else. Fulmer underestimated the Tigers and it cost them. He was going to let a select few players try to show scouts what they had, win lose or draw. IE, Troy Fleming. This is a guy who had 6 touches during this single game and he didn't even have 6 touches all year till now. Casey threw the ball around like a Peyton Manning striker (wanna be) and the OC (Randy Blunders) never changed the game plan from that!!! I saw several opportunities where we could have run misdirection b/c of the blitz or run a tall sweep with success...but we didn't..oh well...
 
#13
#13
Originally posted by KnoxKDX@Jan 7 2004, 07:57 PM
I haven't read thru all the posts since the game, so if this is repetitive, forgive me...but I think this was more of a game about padding certain players' stats than anything else. Fulmer underestimated the Tigers and it cost them. He was going to let a select few players try to show scouts what they had, win lose or draw. IE, Troy Fleming. This is a guy who had 6 touches during this single game and he didn't even have 6 touches all year till now. Casey threw the ball around like a Peyton Manning striker (wanna be) and the OC (Randy Blunders) never changed the game plan from that!!! I saw several opportunities where we could have run misdirection b/c of the blitz or run a tall sweep with success...but we didn't..oh well...
Click to expand...

I've got to give KDX points for originality...of all the complaints about Fulmer, this is the first time I've seen him accused of conspiring to use a Bowl game as his own personal NFL Combine. :shakehead:


BTW - What the hell is a tall sweep???
 
#14
#14
tall sweep=toss sweep (I think you knew what I meant here, didn't ya?.)

GAVOL-so you don't buy the combine theory? How else can you explain the miserable play? A bad game? We were just off? I'm glad you think so highly of Fulmer and approve his wonderful paycheck that UT feels he deserves...all the while UT is having a budget crisis and has to up the tuition by >10% each year. Let's look at this another way: You head a pharmaceutical sales company and you have a rep that handles 80% existing accounts and 20% trying to gain new business...that rep, for 3 years, has lost 5% of your existing clients and managed to bring on no new customers...do you keep him and give him a 10% raise each year or look for a new rep? Hmmmm. Aren't sports great?
 
#15
#15
Why can't it be as simple as "We got beat by a hot team that on that night played better?"

And I can't find where I said anything about Fulmer's pay raise, but as long as we're talking about it . . . It has absolutely nothing to do with the state budget or tuition increases.
 
#17
#17
Board:

GAVol is correct. Fulmer's pay, or for that matter, anything have to do with athletic department, has nothing whatever to do with the university's budget. That is a straw man. The AD is self-sustaining, although they do voluntarily give money to the university.

I also have to give some credence to GAVol's statement about Clemson. It is completely plausible to think we just ran into team that outplayed us. Regardless of the cause, that is what happened.
------
My problem is that we seem to run into to an uncanny number of teams that “just happened to be hot that night – and we didn’t play very well.” In other words, there are a couple of games a year where we don’t get off the bus. It is that reality which leads me to believe – or at least be skeptical – of the reason for the odd number of meltdowns (not just losing).

What commonality can we find to explain these repeated meltdowns? Well, let’s see. Talent is sometimes better than others, players graduate, the opponents vary, conditions vary, everything except a single factor changes. The constant? Coaches.

It’s amazing to me what good coaches do for “talent” and “execution.” Remember how bad Oklahoma was for all of those years? Then Stoops comes in, and all of the sudden they have all this talent. Yeah right. The problem is that, too often, the players are evaluated by the media and fans using the RESULTS – which have a myriad of factors. If they are coached properly, they APPEAR to be more talented. If coached poorly, it has the opposite effect.

Florida hadn’t won an SEC title in the HISTORY OF THE SCHOOL! – that is, before Supperier came in. What do they have now, six?

How good was LSU before Saban got there? How about USC? How about GA? On and on and on and on and on and on.

The point is that the talent and coaching go together. Sure, you can mask a lot of poor coaching with good talent; but you can’t mask it all. Just ask Tennessee. A well coached team takes on a different look and feel.

Anyway, this is getting repetitive.

Vol-Star
 
#18
#18
Vol-Star I agree with you to a point. Coaching definitely matters, but also remember that guys like Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden and Mark Richt all finished with the same record as us and Stoops team melted down at the end of the year.
 
#19
#19
GAVol,

You're right about some things, IMO. This deal isn't cut and dry.

You did bring up a good point. Stoops' team did "melt down," at least to some degree. In the national championship game it was their offense that was exposed.

Herein lies the difference, however. They "melted down" playing for the national championship and the Big 12 title. We melted down against a 8-5 Auburn team, a rebuilding GA team at home, caught some breaks to beat So. Car and BAMA, then melted down in the Peach Bowl against an 8-4 Clemson team. Not the same things at all.

Michigan played in the Rose Bowl against a co-NC and won the Big 10. Again, not the same thing. Richt played for the SEC title and won a bigger bowl game. This wasn't one of Bowden's better teams, but they still won the ACC and played in a BCS bowl.

The thing that keeps creeping up for the vols, to my way of thinking, is that when we are loaded, we play "pretty good." When we are less loaded, we have an "OK" season, and when we are "not as talented" we have a less than stellar season. It's as if we always perform one full rung below our talent level.

-VS

 
#20
#20
I understand what you are saying, and there have been years that I would have agreed with you, but the problem I have is that your whole argument puts the coaches in a no win situation. If the team wins, the coaches get no credit because they were supposed to win because of superior talent. If the team loses, it's because the superior talent didn't get coached well enough.

I just don't see that this year's team was exactly overloaded with talent. We had some good players, but not many great players as we've seen in the past.
 
#21
#21
GAVol,

Astute observation; I agree with you. It is surely possible that some might take the surace argument I put forth and turn it into an infinite vendetta against the coaches. That, however, is not MY aim.

The reason I said it is not cut and dry - and offered up some agreement with you - is that games are played and people win and lose. In fact, it is not at all surprising that we can point to example after example of lesser talent overcoming better talent. That is the nature of sports, and as they say, "that's why they play the games."

The larger, more general, point I'm making is more along the lines of HOW we lose and HOW OFTEN we tend to be overhwelmed. This year, for example, I don't think we were ever a great team - we were never going to be one of those super dominant teams. Still, we got humiliated by UGA on our home field in front of a national audience and were basically run out of the Peach Bowl.

If we had just played GA tough and lost, so be it. But we didn't. We folded up shop. Same thing in Atlanta. If we go back and look at Fulmer's bowl record, we see a pattern; the pattern with FLA roughly reveals same.

I don't have any great revelations about how to "fix" what I perceive as being wrong, other than Fulmer shaking up the staff and realizing that something IS wrong.

The most obvious evidence of coaching deficiencies I can point to are NOT the last few years of mediocrity, but rather when we were GOOD! The Peyton Manning area and the couple of years afterward are where we should've really put it on people. Those were not just good teams with a lot of good players, those were GREAT teams with a lot of GREAT players. In fact, I would put our talent of that era up against ANYONE. We had perhaps one of the greatest players in the history of college football at the most important position (QB) and only managed to win ONE SEC TITLE!

We didn't just have a heartbreak or two in that era, as the law of averages would expect. We had MANY meltdowns with GREAT players.

Anyway, I don't know if this post makes much sense or not, but I'll leave it with you.

-VS
 
#22
#22
vol_freak said:
Well I have just now settled down enough to come back here on VolNation. I spent Friday in the Georgia Dome watching my Vols get outplayed for the second year in a row. After all of the talk by the coaches and players we got outplayed. The officiating was absolutely some of the worst I have seen. Either way we still did not deserve to win. The thing that really bothers me the most is our staff seems to make excuses and try to explain things away. For once I would like to see Fulmer get mad and embarrassed and take some responsibility.

On the way home from the game I said that if Jimmy Ray Stephens is on this staff next year then I am not going to a single game. I am sure I will get over it by the time next year rolls around but that is my biggest wish for next year.

I have been watching some of the replays on CSS of our teams from the 90s and it is really hard to believe how far we have fallen since then. I had forgotten that defensive lineman were allowed to sack the QB.

Oh well, enough of my rambling. How bout those basketball vols? Has anyone looked at our January schedule? It could be a very long month.
Click to expand...

Freak the prophet
 
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