My Broken Record: If Your QB Can't Run, You Can't Compete Now

#26
#26
VolsFan-TX said:
So, Michigan won the National Championship in Peyton’s senior year.....7 yards rushing for Brian Griese. Not exactly the mobile runner like Tee. TN won the championship under Tee based upon defense, not offense.

1997 (TN under Peyton)
* 4th in total offense; 14th in scoring offense
* 32nd in total defense; 32nd in scoring defense

1998 (TN under Tee)
* 32nd in total offense; 17th in scoring
* 17th in total defense; 9th in scoring defense

edit: Griese’s rushing total was for the entire season. 7yards!
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20 years ago. Yep you could win without a mobile QB if he is an accurate passer and the rest of you offense is great, I.e. bama. We are never going to get to that level anytime soon, if ever.
 
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#27
#27
Of the top 4 teams in the SEC, 1 team had a running QB. Trask, Daniels, and Jones almost never ran the ball. Being mobile in the pocket is certainly helpful regardless, like Mahomes and Rodgers, but those two don't really do designed runs. They'll take the yards if they are there, but even Bailey managed to do that pretty well.
 
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#28
#28
Last above average team we've had was with Dobbs...he extended plays and moved the chains and gave defenses fits..10-15 years ago a running QB in the NFL was almost unheard of and then ones in the league they tried to make pocket passers out of them....Now you are seeing more and more QBs in the NFL being allowed to run.
 
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#29
#29
WiseOlVol said:
Another 1-off. And this one from Alabama.

You guys wanting flat-footed QBs are in the minority on Rocky Top. The percentage play is to have the extra tool. Not complicated.
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Who said anything about what I wanted? Besides...how can it logically be another 1-off. Wouldn't there be only one?

I'm sorry the most recent National Champion blows a red elephant sized hole in your obviously well thought-out hypothesis.
 
#30
#30
WiseOlVol said:
Manning only player at any position to have more than 3 NFL MVPs. He has untouchable 5. In only 15 years. (Brady stuck at 3 in 20)
Manning only QB to be All-Pro more than 5 times. He has untouchable 7. (Brady stuck at 3)
These are individual awards, so save the Super Bowl wins argument. Note: Bart Starr 9-1 in playoffs.
Manning 3-1 v Pats in Championship Games.
Called his own plays.
He’s GOAT.
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Ok. Just affirms my opinion about UT fans. Thanks
 
#31
#31
I love Peyton, but he isn’t the GOAT, there is only one guy that has that claim. Then a couple others a notch below him.
 
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#32
#32
I don't think you have to be a legit "dual threat" but I also think it's clear you can't be a statue anymore. John Elway's 5.5 40 time probably doesn't work unless you have elite talent around you or you a just that accurate.

I think you need at least a Tanneyhill level athleticism. I don't consider him a true dual threat but he can run when needed and he's good enough that the defense can't ignore it.

It is funny though, we've been hearing this for like 25 years now but I do think we finally are getting to the point that more QBs are more "dual threat" than aren't.
 
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#33
#33
I'm with you OP... I think having a mobile QB is a must at Tennessee. One reason I've like the idea of hiring an HC like Scott Frost, Hugh Freeze, or Jamey Chadwell. That said it seems like Pruitt is trying to take us that direction with signing Maurer, Holiday, Salter, Hill, and now Hooker. It'll be interesting to see how our offense looks if Maurer, Salter, or Hooker beat out Bailey for the starting job.
 
#38
#38
WiseOlVol said:
[Unless you're Alabama. Even then, Saban's QBs run well enough. Some very well. We're not Alabama.]

A QB without wheels gives the D an extra man. JG was sold as a Dual QB. He was not. Wouldn't have taken a snap if he'd chosen Ohio State over UT. 5.2-40 speed, tops.

Yes, Manning was pretty flat-footed. But he's the GOAT. Tee won the NC with his wheels. Josh Dobbs beat Florida - even caught a 58-yard screen pass for a TD v. the Gators.

The excuse for recruiting Pro-style QBs was that the Pro-style offense brings in the best (i.e., NFL-bound) supporting cast on offense. That excuse is no longer valid. All these guys run well and (except Rodgers) started as NFL Rookies:

Aaron Rodgers
Lamar Jackson
Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray
Joe Burrow
Tua
Mahomes
Russel Wilson
Cam
Jalen Hurts
Trubisky
Daniel Jones (Giants)
Deshaun Watson
Justin Herbert
Marcus Mariota
Robert Griffin III

Lawrence and Fields run extremely well. They'll be drafted 1 and 2.

I've lobbied to hire [Paul Johnson] and run the Wishbone. Well, perhaps that's overkill to prove the point. Although that would lock in 8 wins IMHO. Texas high schools produce >100 4.5-40 wishbone QBs every year. We could have our pick of the average passers if running the Wishbone was our platform. But I digress.

Kaidon Salter could be the guy. Elite-11 passer. Not 4.5 speed but thoroughbred athlete, throws well on the run and is particularly effective in off-schedule situations. Here's hoping he is the template we follow from now on. It's 2021 and well past time.

Coda: Harrison Bailey was thrust into a difficult situation. Lots of upside. Pulling for him.
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ummm....we gonna gloss over the elephant in the room that is named Tom Brady? Dude was drafted 6th round and has more rings than all the above listed combined. Prostyle QB's are still a thing and last I checked Brady won last week's playoff game at 43 :rolleyes:. Athletic QB's have it both ways right now which, IMO I feel is BS. They are afforded protection via rule book while remaining a run threat. I feel that roughing the passer calls should no longer apply after you leave the box. Also, NCAA is not calling offensive lineman downfield on a lot of RPO's. Once that happens more often you will see many of the stats for these dual QB's drop. No secret that the defense in today's modern game is handcuffed.
 
#39
#39
VolsSportsFan said:
I don't think you have to be a legit "dual threat" but I also think it's clear you can't be a statue anymore. John Elway's 5.5 40 time probably doesn't work unless you have elite talent around you or you a just that accurate.

I think you need at least a Tanneyhill level athleticism. I don't consider him a true dual threat but he can run when needed and he's good enough that the defense can't ignore it.

It is funny though, we've been hearing this for like 25 years now but I do think we finally are getting to the point that more QBs are more "dual threat" than aren't.
Click to expand...

and even Elway had over 3,000 yards rushing for his career at 4.4 per
 
#40
#40
Mac Jones rushed for 14 yards this season.
Kyle Trask rushed for 50 yards this season.
Justin Herbert rushed for 50 yards last season.
Jake Fromm rushed for -12 yards last season.

Sure, being a dual threat helps, but it isn't a requirement.
 
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#43
#43
Hawkeye4588 said:
I have been saying this for over 20 years. There is a reason we won a national championship with Tee and not Peyton. The traditional pocket packer can still work in the NFL but college is a different animal altogether.

Only counterpoint is you can't have just a rushing QB as we saw with Dobbs. I loved Dobbs but he was a one trick pony the opposite way. Ideally, if you had a guy with Dobbs legs who had just average accuracy you could run the table.
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Nice.

Oh how this is forgotten in the orange tinted glasses of revisionist history!!!

As we suffered through about a decade and a half with THE WORST QB in the history of UT...he that lost more than 2 games for every game that he won....I have read endless posts here about Dobbs and how we would be 10 and 2 if we just had Dobbs back..

He is a great dude by all accounts. Great athlete, super smart, and seems to be a great person as well. We get that.

Nobody seems to remember the (actual, no exaggeration,) Thousands of posts while Dobbs was QB about him being unable to throw a football....especially in and after games when he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn as usual, but his legs were NOT enough to bail out our Busch league offense and we lost. There were plenty of those. Plenty.

" but look at his STATS!! He is 4th all time in so and so..."

We know. His rushing TDs are counted in his totals along with passing, same thing for rushing yards and total yards except for when they are specifically separated. He also played in the 12 games plus bowl makes 13 games a year era...more games than nearly everyone on the all time list. Makes a HUGE difference. For those that are being objective or want to watch tape, there is also the fact that Butch made the passing game mostly screens, swing passes to RB like a long handoff, or safety valve dumps to RB because he knew Dobbs couldn't accurately throw the deep or middle length passes with any accuracy. Lots of YAC...by design....

I could go on but I digress. Dobbs is a VFL and I love the guy, but he was a terrible passer at times. Just barely average on his good days by SEC standards. It was infuriating when it cost us ballgames, since a QB primary job is to THROW the ball. Seems that 90% of folks here have forgotten that because JG was so terrible that we could have started a High School QB and won more games if Pruitt didn't start him over and over until it cost him his future at UT.
 
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#45
#45
cncchris33 said:
Mac Jones rushed for 14 yards this season.
Kyle Trask rushed for 50 yards this season.
Justin Herbert rushed for 50 yards last season.
Jake Fromm rushed for -12 yards last season.

Sure, being a dual threat helps, but it isn't a requirement.
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I would rather have a dual threat QB than not.
 
#46
#46
This is the way it is now. Times have changed. The game is much faster and offenses are scoring 8+ TDs a game now every Saturday like clockwork.

Dual threat QBs give you more plays to work with and add to your playbook. Makes it a headache for defenses to stop. When they think they've got everyone covered and are about to get a sack that QB could take off for a 30+ yard score just like that.

You can still win games with guys like Manning if your offense is built for it. But a player as smart as Manning with his work ethic is near impossible to find.
 
#47
#47
overseasorange2 said:
I would rather have a dual threat QB than not.
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Me too, if the natural talent is equal, but I’m not taking Alex Smith over Drew Brees just because he can run better. The primary responsibility of the QB is to throw the ball. If given the option, I’m taking the elite passer who may be not be very mobile vs the athletic runner who completes less than 50% of his passes.
 
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#49
#49
Hawkeye4588 said:
I have been saying this for over 20 years. There is a reason we won a national championship with Tee and not Peyton. The traditional pocket packer can still work in the NFL but college is a different animal altogether.

Only counterpoint is you can't have just a rushing QB as we saw with Dobbs. I loved Dobbs but he was a one trick pony the opposite way. Ideally, if you had a guy with Dobbs legs who had just average accuracy you could run the table.
Click to expand...

Tee was a very good game manager didn’t make a lot of mistakes. Was not a great runner his best run was vs Syracuse saved the game. He was adequate runner and great at extending plays. He & that team were winners won a lot of close games with a very stout D. Other teams without this team character would have lost 3 of those games.
Dobbs had 4 100+ games rushing in 2016 with 190 vs Missouri had about what Tee had over 13 games in one game.
Dobbs =831 rushing 2946 passing , 63%
Tee=. 287 rushing. 2317 passing , 57.3
 

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