'26 MS WR Tristen Keys (lsu commit)

[Garren04]

This either ends in a bad troll job or a flip to us

 

[LittleVol]

Too lazy to look but where were those guys ranked? Velus kind of was cast off USC if I remember correctly, Hyatt was passed on by South Carolina, Tillman was a low rated guy. Development on lower rated guys sometimes has a lower ceiling. Jmho though.

This year with Matthews could tell us a lot about Pope.

Venus was an All-American KR at USC but couldn’t make a huge impact at WR.

Hyatt was a 4 star that Georgia and Florida tried to get in on late.

But again these are guys under Golesh with Hendon at the helm. They were scheming guys open and Hendon was a very good QB.

Again, in the end either the kid wants to come here or not. He seems to love Tennessee. In the end that’s usually enough

 

[DaddyChad]

This either ends in a bad troll job or a flip to us

Maybe.

Carnell always loved it here also. Supposedly almost came here in the offseason again. That said you can only be the bridesmaid so many times at this level. Pope needs to do better this year.

 

[Vol423]

Maybe.

Carnell always loved it here also. Supposedly almost came here in the offseason again. That said you can only be the bridesmaid so many times at this level. Pope needs to do better this year.

You're having to dig deep to locate RF threads to bitch and moan about recruiting these days.

 

[swchandler1988]

Venus was an All-American KR at USC but couldn’t make a huge impact at WR.

Hyatt was a 4 star that Georgia and Florida tried to get in on late.

But again these are guys under Golesh with Hendon at the helm. They were scheming guys open and Hendon was a very good QB.

Again, in the end either the kid wants to come here or not. He seems to love Tennessee. In the end that’s usually enough

Velus was a 2nd team All-PAC 12 in 2019

Hyatt didn’t have an offer from UGA or Florida

 

[Jackcrevol]

 

[WillisWG]

MAKE MY DAY EVEN BETTER TRISTEN

 

[LouderVol]

This either ends in a bad troll job or a flip to us

or just giving some love to fellow Mississippi high schoolers.

 

[VawlIn]

I believe system and development are independent issues. The arguments being made by opposing coaches are self-serving. The points made by NFL scouts are, frankly, lazy.

A great receiver will be great in any system. He will develop in any system. Some systems (CJH's) will enhance his opportunty for wins and on the field production. Other teams concentrate on being farm organizations for the NFL, believing since it is THE pro league whatever system it runs must be the best.

NFL scouts want to minimize their risk, so they favor players they can watch do the things their teams do. I get it, but it downplays the fact that great receivers can shine and develop in any system. They might still have some things to learn, but that isn't going to keep an elite reciever from being productive in the NFL.

Opposing coaches just want an edge. They also want CJH to change his system because outside of UGA's pro roster, they struggle to stop or contain it. I don't think CJH is going to move away from a system that creates as many open looks as his does, to fend off negative recruiting or whiny scouts.

I guess the weakness is that showing out in this offense as a WR requires a QB who makes quick decisions and is accurate. Two years without such an asset has created oopportunities for second guessing and negativity around our receivers.

I don't want coaches tt make strategic decisions based off the desires of opposing coaches / scouts, much less based off the notions someone is putting in 16/17/18 year old's heads. Coaches are there to teach players, not cater to them.

The problem is the Art Briles/Josh Heupel system has never produced a receiver that was consistently productive in the NFL. Gabe Davis at UCF and Terrance Williams from Baylor are the only relative outliers. All of those Baylor and Missouri WRs did nothing in the NFL despite good production in college, and no kid in high school is sitting at home saying to themselves “I want to be the next Gabe Davis”

 

[sonofUT62]

The problem is the Art Briles/Josh Heupel system has never produced a receiver that was consistently productive in the NFL. Gabe Davis at UCF and Terrance Williams from Baylor are the only relative outliers. All of those Baylor and Missouri WRs did nothing in the NFL despite good production in college, and no kid in high school is sitting at home saying to themselves “I want to be the next Gabe Davis”

Never is a strong word. 12-13 years ago Josh Gordon was unguardable.

 

[Skooter]

There are approximately 135 d1 teams. Let’s say 10 WRs on scholarship. 1350. NFL drafts ~ 30 WRs a year, so a little over 2% are drafted.

 

[deatojl]

The problem is the Art Briles/Josh Heupel system has never produced a receiver that was consistently productive in the NFL. Gabe Davis at UCF and Terrance Williams from Baylor are the only relative outliers. All of those Baylor and Missouri WRs did nothing in the NFL despite good production in college, and no kid in high school is sitting at home saying to themselves “I want to be the next Gabe Davis”

That's a valid point. You did leave out Kendall Wright who, while not a star NFL player, did have 94 catches for nearly 1100 yards one year for the Titans. Also, Oklahoma State runs a similar offensive scheme with wide splits. Texas Tech especially did under Mike Leach. I would say Dez Bryant, Michael Crabtree, Danny Amendola and Wes Welker had pretty solid impact in the NFL.

 

[LaagerVol]

That's a valid point. You did leave out Kendall Wright who, while not a star NFL player, did have 94 catches for nearly 1100 yards one year for the Titans. Also, Oklahoma State runs a similar offensive scheme with wide splits. Texas Tech especially did under Mike Leach. I would say Dez Bryant, Michael Crabtree, Danny Amendola and Wes Welker had pretty solid impact in the NFL.

Right. One can’t properly assess how well a system translates to the NFL without also acknowledging the talent level the system was recruting. Of COURSE LSU and OSU are gonna have more successful WRs in the NFL than Baylor. The talent they sign is next level compared to Baylor

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Never is a strong word. 12-13 years ago Josh Gordon was unguardable.

Gordon was good for one year. That’s it.

 

[LaagerVol]

Gordon was good for one year. That’s it.

And the fact it was only one year had zero to do with how he was developed in college and everything to do with personal problems

 

[sonofUT62]

And the fact it was only one year had zero to do with how he was developed in college and everything to do with personal problems

This.

 

[vol9799]

The problem is the Art Briles/Josh Heupel system has never produced a receiver that was consistently productive in the NFL. Gabe Davis at UCF and Terrance Williams from Baylor are the only relative outliers. All of those Baylor and Missouri WRs did nothing in the NFL despite good production in college, and no kid in high school is sitting at home saying to themselves “I want to be the next Gabe Davis”

Setting aside whether your assertion is accurate, because I am not going to do the analysis required to comment on that. Regardless, the underlying problem with your argument is that it assumes all other factors are equal. They aren't, so it's pointless to try and make that argument.

 

[VawlIn]

That's a valid point. You did leave out Kendall Wright who, while not a star NFL player, did have 94 catches for nearly 1100 yards one year for the Titans. Also, Oklahoma State runs a similar offensive scheme with wide splits. Texas Tech especially did under Mike Leach. I would say Dez Bryant, Michael Crabtree, Danny Amendola and Wes Welker had pretty solid impact in the NFL.

Those team run the air raid. Which is a completely different offensive philosophy entirely than what Briles and Heupel run. Now it’s true Heupel ran a passing game at Oklahoma that was somewhat similar to what Leach ran, but once we went to Utah State he’s been veer and shoot all the way

 

[VawlIn]

Setting aside whether your assertion is accurate, because I am not going to do the analysis required to comment on that. Regardless, the underlying problem with your argument is that it assumes all other factors are equal. They aren't, so it's pointless to try and make that argument.

The problem is though this staff is going into year 5 and has yet to bring in a WR and develop him out of HS into just an average SEC WR much less a first round draft pick. The only players that have really flashed any sign of NFL potential were guys that started their collegiate careers with a different staff

 

[MarcoVol]

The problem is though this staff is going into year 5 and has yet to bring in a WR and develop him out of HS into just an average SEC WR much less a first round draft pick. The only players that have really flashed any sign of NFL potential were guys that started their collegiate careers with a different staff

Who cares tho

 

[deatojl]

Those team run the air raid. Which is a completely different offensive philosophy entirely than what Briles and Heupel run. Now it’s true Heupel ran a passing game at Oklahoma that was somewhat similar to what Leach ran, but once we went to Utah State he’s been veer and shoot all the way

There are similarities between the two systems, though. In particular, the wide splits to create space for the receivers. The route tree for receivers in an air raid system is very similar to the veer and shoot with the variety of routes and options for the receivers based on the read.

 

[VolGee4]

Those team run the air raid. Which is a completely different offensive philosophy entirely than what Briles and Heupel run. Now it’s true Heupel ran a passing game at Oklahoma that was somewhat similar to what Leach ran, but once we went to Utah State he’s been veer and shoot all the way

The veer and shoot has air raid elements in its passing game. It just focuses more on running the ball. Briles coached under Leach at Texas Tech. They both use similar WR sets, create mismatches in space, and use the vertical game.

 

[deatojl]

The problem is though this staff is going into year 5 and has yet to bring in a WR and develop him out of HS into just an average SEC WR much less a first round draft pick. The only players that have really flashed any sign of NFL potential were guys that started their collegiate careers with a different staff

I would argue that Squirrel White was at least an average SEC WR if not above average. Also, they did take a two star who couldn't get on the field with the previous staff and a three star who couldn't catch a cold under the previous staff and turned them into NFL draft picks with the latter winning the Biletnikoff award. Certainly, there's something to be said for that.

 

[VawlIn]

Right. One can’t properly assess how well a system translates to the NFL without also acknowledging the talent level the system was recruting. Of COURSE LSU and OSU are gonna have more successful WRs in the NFL than Baylor. The talent they sign is next level compared to Baylor

Ok, but let’s not act like those veer and shoot teams didn’t have multiple draft picks during the 2010s and they all ended up being bad. Corey Coleman was another one. There’s no denying at this point it doesn’t prepare receivers well for the NFL. Mainly because a lot of players have spent the previous 4 years of their life neglecting half of the route tree because it’s impossible to run out breaking routes. It also doesn’t prepare guys well for being able to get open in the league on in breaking routes when the DB has inside help. It leaves guys behind the 8 ball on route combo timing as well considering we run a lot of passing concepts and route combos that just aren’t going to be ran in the NFL. We can’t even run mesh or Y cross in our system and those are staples in a modern passing offense. I think Heupel has done a good job here, but he has to evolve as a playcaller. Because he’s doing his offensive players a disservice to their development right now. It was great the first few years because it gave us the schematic advantage we needed on the field till we could catch up with the talent we’re competing against. Now that we’re starting to land better athletes on the perimeter and at QB and he’s not walking into a program with Brian Maurer and JT Shrout at QB and a bunch of 2-3 star receivers it’s time to stop relying so much on the defense being gassed or out of position pre snap and it’s time for him to start dialing up some passing concepts up and coaching these receivers on how to run a dig the right way and be capable of beating the future NFL DB that’s lined up across from them

 

[VawlIn]

The veer and shoot has air raid elements in its passing game. It just focuses more on running the ball. Briles coached under Leach at Texas Tech. They both use similar WR sets, create mismatches in space, and use the vertical game.

They use some similar passing concepts, but there are a lot of passing plays in Leach’s offense that are virtually impossible to run in our offense because the splits won’t allow it and we don’t run the ball enough out of traditional formations to not telegraph to the defense what we’re running when we do line up tighter. Leach’s offenses were predicated on keeping the ball moving with an intermediate passing game that used the entirety of the field and athletic guys catching a 10 yard pass in space and housing it. Heupel’s offense is predicated on giving the QB simple pre snap reads with spacing and taking the occasional deep shot. We essentially have 6 passing concepts and that’s deep choice, the high low switch release, quick screen off the RPO, double digs, and a pass to the TE whether it be the pop pass or a wheel route. Outside of that there’s not much balance