'26 MS WR Tristen Keys (lsu commit)

#1,176
#1,176
AllVol11717 said:
I’m not saying they get absolutely zero snaps, I’m saying it’s not common for a true freshman to play a significant role under this staff. RB is one position that is an exception, but partially because we’ve had super thin RB rooms and tend to run 3 guys a game.

Boo and probably David Sanders will be the exception to the rule there but as far as Matthews is concerned he wasn’t really given an opportunity until every option older than him was either injured or failed and decided to leave.

My point being, we’ll rarely know if a player is a bust or not right away because of the staffs tendency to lean towards experience over raw ability.
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I agree with that assessment. Again, we don't typically play true Freshmen a ton but they do get opportunities. Telander and Arion Carter both got ample opportunities as true Freshman. I don't know if I would say we have had thin RB rooms, though. In 2021, Jabari Small, Jaylen Wright and Tiyon Evans all had over 400 yards and Lenneth Whitehead had over 200 as our #4 guy. 2022, Jaylen Wright and Jabari Small both had over 700 yards and Dylan Sampson had about 400. In 2023, you had Jaylen Wright(1,013), Dylan Sampson(604) and Jabari Small(475) with Cam Seldon as our #4(106). 2024 seemed like we were thinner at RB but we had Dylan Sampson(1,491), DeSean Bishop(455) and Peyton Lewis(339). There's not many teams in the country, much less the SEC, that gets that kind of yearly production 3 deep from the RB spot.
 
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#1,177
#1,177
AllVol11717 said:
I’m not saying they get absolutely zero snaps, I’m saying it’s not common for a true freshman to play a significant role under this staff. RB is one position that is an exception, but partially because we’ve had super thin RB rooms and tend to run 3 guys a game.

Boo and probably David Sanders will be the exception to the rule there but as far as Matthews is concerned he wasn’t really given an opportunity until every option older than him was either injured or failed and decided to leave.

My point being, we’ll rarely know if a player is a bust or not right away because of the staffs tendency to lean towards experience over raw ability.
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So far it seems like the defensive staff will play freshman while the offensive won’t.
 
#1,179
#1,179
Every team runs mostly choice routes. It’s not the routes, it’s the getting the ball to the right WR. Ohio state can make choice routes look good when you have studs everywhere.

Choice routes do not equal INTs. It equals sacks or for players like HH rushing yards. If WR runs wrong route go to 2 read then 3 then run since we don’t have RBs in routes.
 
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#1,180
#1,180
deatojl said:
I agree with that assessment. Again, we don't typically play true Freshmen a ton but they do get opportunities. Telander and Arion Carter both got ample opportunities as true Freshman. I don't know if I would say we have had thin RB rooms, though. In 2021, Jabari Small, Jaylen Wright and Tiyon Evans all had over 400 yards and Lenneth Whitehead had over 200 as our #4 guy. 2022, Jaylen Wright and Jabari Small both had over 700 yards and Dylan Sampson had about 400. In 2023, you had Jaylen Wright(1,013), Dylan Sampson(604) and Jabari Small(475) with Cam Seldon as our #4(106). 2024 seemed like we were thinner at RB but we had Dylan Sampson(1,491), DeSean Bishop(455) and Peyton Lewis(339). There's not many teams in the country, much less the SEC, that gets that kind of yearly production 3 deep from the RB spot.
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Telander and Smith both got more action after we lost Pili and had Herring transfer out after playing a lot. It’s not like we had a ton of guys with experience in that room after that to choose from, but I’m glad they got the opportunity and I think have gotten better because of it.

As far as RB we have good volume stats because of the scheme not necesarrily the individual (no knock on Wright or Sampson). There’s a reason why a guy you mention is now a former UGA walk on. Whitehead and Seldon both couldn’t really get the position down but can still get decent stats against a favorable defensive front. Realistically I think this staff would get good RB stats from any P4 team’s RB room.

Having an exceptional back in the scheme certainly adds to it, but I think it would take having a G5 offensive line to ever see CJH have a bad rushing offense here statistically speaking.
 
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#1,181
#1,181
Volsdeep4 said:
Every team runs mostly choice routes. It’s not the routes, it’s the getting the ball to the right WR. Ohio state can make choice routes look good when you have studs everywhere.

Choice routes do not equal INTs. It equals sacks or for players like HH rushing yards. If WR runs wrong route go to 2 read then 3 then run since we don’t have RBs in routes.
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We run more than most with this system. OSU whipped our asses with crossing routes and likely didn’t have to make a mid route choice on any pass plays. Just a pre snap read as Banks sends a telegraph showing man with no help or dropping 19 15 yards deep in the flat. May as well put a spotlight on the matchup against any qb worth a flip.
I disagree on the Ints. They go up when qb and wr aren’t on the same page.
 
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#1,183
#1,183
AllVol11717 said:
Telander and Smith both got more action after we lost Pili and had Herring transfer out after playing a lot. It’s not like we had a ton of guys with experience in that room after that to choose from, but I’m glad they got the opportunity and I think have gotten better because of it.

As far as RB we have good volume stats because of the scheme not necesarrily the individual (no knock on Wright or Sampson). There’s a reason why a guy you mention is now a former UGA walk on. Whitehead and Seldon both couldn’t really get the position down but can still get decent stats against a favorable defensive front. Realistically I think this staff would get good RB stats from any P4 team’s RB room.

Having an exceptional back in the scheme certainly adds to it, but I think it would take having a G5 offensive line to ever see CJH have a bad rushing offense here statistically speaking.
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I don't disagree but Whitehead was our fourth string RB that season. Seldon was 3rd/4th on the depth chart, as well. He was expected to potentially move up to 2nd last year before his injury opened the door for Bishop and Lewis. Sampson and Wright are both on NFL rosters now, so there must be some individual ability involved. Personally, I don't care too much whether it is scheme or individual talent that provides the production as long as the production is there. That's also why I don't really buy too much into the notion that we will see a big drop off in production this season from our rushing offense.
 
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#1,184
#1,184
T2P_Priceless said:
The wide splits limit the route tree a lot. There’s a reason it’s a talking point from NFL executives, opposing coaches, etc
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I believe system and development are independent issues. The arguments being made by opposing coaches are self-serving. The points made by NFL scouts are, frankly, lazy.

A great receiver will be great in any system. He will develop in any system. Some systems (CJH's) will enhance his opportunty for wins and on the field production. Other teams concentrate on being farm organizations for the NFL, believing since it is THE pro league whatever system it runs must be the best.

NFL scouts want to minimize their risk, so they favor players they can watch do the things their teams do. I get it, but it downplays the fact that great receivers can shine and develop in any system. They might still have some things to learn, but that isn't going to keep an elite reciever from being productive in the NFL.

Opposing coaches just want an edge. They also want CJH to change his system because outside of UGA's pro roster, they struggle to stop or contain it. I don't think CJH is going to move away from a system that creates as many open looks as his does, to fend off negative recruiting or whiny scouts.

I guess the weakness is that showing out in this offense as a WR requires a QB who makes quick decisions and is accurate. Two years without such an asset has created oopportunities for second guessing and negativity around our receivers.

I don't want coaches tt make strategic decisions based off the desires of opposing coaches / scouts, much less based off the notions someone is putting in 16/17/18 year old's heads. Coaches are there to teach players, not cater to them.
 
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#1,187
#1,187
LittleVol said:
LSU
Brian Thomas and Malik Nabers
(Both Rookies in 2024)
195 rec. 2500 yards 17 TDs

Tennessee
Cedric Tillman (2) Hyatt (2) Venus Jones (4)
90 recs 1000 yards 4 TDs
(8 total seasons)

Guys I want to be as positive as possible with Keys , but we shouldn’t defend something that is incorrect.

If Keys comes here it’s because he loves it better than LSU. Damn what he says is important he’s still a kid and will go where he wants to be.
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Again, was that because of development, or the talent that they were to begin with.

On3 composite
Brian Thomas - #92 overall recruit
Malik Nabers - #175 overall recruit

Cedric Tillman - 1601
Velus Jones - 393
Jalyn Hyatt - 175

Imo you could make an argument that Heupel developed Tillman and Jones better
 
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#1,189
#1,189
Well, Keys will either come to the Vols, or he won't. But LSU's case will get shakier if they don't get the OFF production that folks are assuming for them ... despite their OL being a bigger rebuild patch-up than Tennessee's. 🤔
 
#1,190
#1,190
Skooter said:
We run more than most with this system. OSU whipped our asses with crossing routes and likely didn’t have to make a mid route choice on any pass plays. Just a pre snap read as Banks sends a telegraph showing man with no help or dropping 19 15 yards deep in the flat. May as well put a spotlight on the matchup against any qb worth a flip.
I disagree on the Ints. They go up when qb and wr aren’t on the same page.
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Osu beat us with anything they wanted. But not all “choice” routes are determined during play. Some are determined preplay based on coverage.
For a team that uses more choice routes than most we have very few INTs so there’s that to disagree with. Anywho, it’s hard to argue that our WR development is very good.
 
#1,191
#1,191
Does LSU have anyone lined up to be Keys QB? It looks like a "no" to me after a quick glance at their roster and recruiting class. I guess their selling him on their ability to bring in someone from the portal. Seems like an odd choice for Keys. It probably just stems from him being raised in LSU territory. And I get that they've been WR U lately, but those recent LSU WRs who have been successful had pretty good QBs (Burrows, Daniels).

Hopefully once the emotions of it all settle down he'll make the decision that's best for his future.
 
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#1,194
#1,194
VawlIn said:
I know their offense was really shaky this year. Especially when they played us, but I was really impressed with him at times this year when we played Mississippi State. He’s a really good athlete with all the physical tools to be a problem
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I think he has the potential to be a pretty good QB, but I just don’t really understand why he went to LSU this season, given Nussmeier was going to be the clear starter. I know he’s only a sophomore, but I just found that to be a strange decision on his part. Maybe he’s just really humble and wants to learn behind a vet for a year, perhaps. But surely, he could’ve found a better place to go for this season.

Regardless though, if I’m a 5 star WR, I can’t say Michael Van Buren would truly excite me. Especially when it’s him vs Faizon Brandon. So if it comes down to “who has the best QB”, I have no doubts we would win that debate.
 
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#1,195
#1,195
High maintenance guys are difficult to retain in this era of college football. We sign him.. no big deal. If he isn’t all everything as a freshman he’ll bolt somewhere else. I’m take him or leave him. Meh.. at this point.
 
#1,196
#1,196
HeuperDrive said:
I think he has the potential to be a pretty good QB, but I just don’t really understand why he went to LSU this season, given Nussmeier was going to be the clear starter. I know he’s only a sophomore, but I just found that to be a strange decision on his part. Maybe he’s just really humble and wants to learn behind a vet for a year, perhaps. But surely, he could’ve found a better place to go for this season.

Regardless though, if I’m a 5 star WR, I can’t say Michael Van Buren would truly excite me. Especially when it’s him vs Faizon Brandon. So if it comes down to “who has the best QB”, I have no doubts we would win that debate.
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Taking the Dante Moore approach and transferring to redshirt. Realistically couldn’t have started at a much bigger school than miss state so getting paid to learn the offense after a year of sec experience will make him a breakout candidate next year
 
#1,199
#1,199
LittleVol said:
LSU
Brian Thomas and Malik Nabers
(Both Rookies in 2024)
195 rec. 2500 yards 17 TDs

Tennessee
Cedric Tillman (2) Hyatt (2) Venus Jones (4)
90 recs 1000 yards 4 TDs
(8 total seasons)

Guys I want to be as positive as possible with Keys , but we shouldn’t defend something that is incorrect.

If Keys comes here it’s because he loves it better than LSU. Damn what he says is important he’s still a kid and will go where he wants to be.
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Too lazy to look but where were those guys ranked? Velus kind of was cast off USC if I remember correctly, Hyatt was passed on by South Carolina, Tillman was a low rated guy. Development on lower rated guys sometimes has a lower ceiling. Jmho though.

This year with Matthews could tell us a lot about Pope.

Edit: as I read further through the thread I see this point was already addressed.
 
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