Moving Forward

#27
#27
I don't know if the OP is suffering from the blind spot bias or is just being disingenuous but freedom of religion was definitely perceived by many evangelical Christians as being under assault by the Obama administration. So much so that they voted in record numbers for him, all across the land, and he being the least likely model as someone who has lived his entire life as a virtuous Christian man.

The OP and his/her/its allies apparently want the power to define freedom and it's limits for everyone else under his/her/its terms and damn what the other side thinks.

When Trump rescinds Obama's regulatory encroachment on other people's freedom, the OP will likely think it's an assault on his/her/its freedom because in his/her/its world view, his/her/its power to regulate the freedom of others is all that matters.
 
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#28
#28
joevol33 said:
It would be silly for anyone to want him to fail. I wasn't a big fan of Obama, but prayed for the man every day. I'll do the same for trump, hopefully he does a good job.
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Overall, I want Trump to be a success according to my own bias, but if he puts a policy forward that I don't agree with, I hope it/he (in that particular area) fails. I root for the outcome/nation far more than I do the president.
 
#29
#29
southgatevol said:
It goes beyond protest when you dam age private property and do harm to others.
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The rules that make any participant in a burglary or murder the same as the guy holding the gun should apply to violent protests. Burn a limo and the whole crowd is arrested for arson. Damage property and the whole crowd is arrested for property damage - and looting if it happens. The crowd is complicit by creating a diversion that makes the individuals anonymous and incites their actions, and the crowd prevents the police from minimizing the damage to property and to victims.

Personally, I'd prefer to see the press included - the demonstrations wouldn't be nearly as effective without their reporting; but that would doubtless step on some toes, so ... When the press basically glorifies the violence by not condemning wanton destruction, the press becomes an accessory.
 
#30
#30
zeppelin128 said:
The point is that they are allowed to do that under the Constitution. Do you disagree with that idea?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Pickens View Post
It's not what I do..... I don't waste my time hanging out with ugly fat liberal chicks and guys that don't bathe properly ....... I don't stand in the street making a fool out of myself trying to prevent people from passing.... I don't chant F Hillary..... or yell Shame! Shame! Shame! In people's faces just because they want to attend the inauguration...... this is what inconsiderate stupid MFs do.


Hmmmm.....yes.

Freedom of speech is yelling obscenities or screaming in people's faces? Blocking others' movements on a public road/sidewalk is your right, but they don't have a right to freedom of movement? (Sounds very JimCrowish.)

I'm all for Constitutional rights, but don't think they cover harassment, intimidation, bullying, etc...maybe you didn't quite read/comprehend CP's post?
 
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#31
#31
zeppelin128 said:
I'm not saying anything other than I believe, and am protected by our Constitution, that we all have the right to protest.
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You have a right to protest, but that doesn't give you a right to destroy property, and in a common sense world it wouldn't give you the right to violate the rights of others.
 
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#33
#33
Smallvol#1 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Pickens View Post
It's not what I do..... I don't waste my time hanging out with ugly fat liberal chicks and guys that don't bathe properly ....... I don't stand in the street making a fool out of myself trying to prevent people from passing.... I don't chant F Hillary..... or yell Shame! Shame! Shame! In people's faces just because they want to attend the inauguration...... this is what inconsiderate stupid MFs do.


Hmmmm.....yes.

Freedom of speech is yelling obscenities or screaming in people's faces? Blocking others' movements on a public road/sidewalk is your right, but they don't have a right to freedom of movement? (Sounds very JimCrowish.)

I'm all for Constitutional rights, but don't think they cover harassment, intimidation, bullying, etc...maybe you didn't quite read/comprehend CP's post?
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Exactly ..... what I saw wasn't "peaceful protest". I saw protestors infringing upon the rights of others.... BIG difference.
 
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#34
#34
zeppelin128 said:
I don't post often on VN, even less in the Politics forum. But I wanted to share my thoughts. Flame away.

“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” Abraham Lincoln.

As is the great mandate of our Republic, a peaceful transition of government has occurred today. It is an amazing, powerful idea that for over two hundred years, we as a nation, freely and without recourse, can give some one the ability to lead Western Civilization with great power, and then, without bloodshed or violence or war, take that ability from them and give it to someone anew. The spectacle is truly remarkable, and defines us as Patriots.

The election is over. Whether you like him or not, Donald Trump is now our President. He was elected by our peers and won the Electoral College. He may have lost the popular vote, but that matters little. Legally and under our democratic institutions, he is your President. And my President. I truly wish him well. He is the leader of the free world now, and I would never want him to fail in his oath or governance of all Americans.

Many of you know my deep distrust of President Trump and the Republican majority in Congress. I have said before that he is a threat to the Republic, and I believe that in my core. I desperately hope he proves me wrong.

With that said, agree and praise when credit is due. Protest when necessary. Abhor and shun violence, but be heard.

Never forget, our President is just a civilian. He is not a king. Many thousands died to wipe the plague of monarchy from America. We answer to no one. The President answers to us. Hold him accountable. Congratulate President Trump on his successes. Scorn him for his failures.

Abraham Lincoln had a recurring dream throughout the Civil War in which he was standing on a great ship sailing over dark, tumultuous waters, heading quickly toward a dim light on the shore. He reached it in life by restoring the Union, by uniting a tattered nation rife with division under the simple American idea that all are created equal in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Never lose hope. Our Constitution, ideals, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, our core values as American Patriots are far more important and powerful than one man.

We are a nation of revolutionaries. The American electorate that led to President Trump practiced the most basic act of protest: they were heard with their vote. And now another act of patriotism is occurring with peaceful protests across the country. Both are American in the truest sense of the word.

We have never been so divided in decades; President Trump won the Electoral College while losing the popular vote by three million. Those of you supporting Trump, especially blindly supporting him, keep this in mind. We are fractured at our core.

Even in darkness, there is light. Hold true to freedom, justice, liberty, and equality for all American citizens. Question everything. Hold these men and women accountable. Be fair. Be vigilant. Be educated. Be heard. Be a Patriot that would make our forbearers proud.
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Thank you for this... AMEN...let it be
 
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#35
#35
ChattaTNVol said:
I don't know if the OP is suffering from the blind spot bias or is just being disingenuous but freedom of religion was definitely perceived by many evangelical Christians as being under assault by the Obama administration. So much so that they voted in record numbers for him, all across the land, and he being the least likely model as someone who has lived his entire life as a virtuous Christian man.

The OP and his/her/its allies apparently want the power to define freedom and it's limits for everyone else under his/her/its terms and damn what the other side thinks.

When Trump rescinds Obama's regulatory encroachment on other people's freedom, the OP will likely think it's an assault on his/her/its freedom because in his/her/its world view, his/her/its power to regulate the freedom of others is all that matters.
Click to expand...

Do you always make such assumptions about folks? I'm sorry you think your religion is paramount over basic rights.
 
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#37
#37
zeppelin128 said:
Again, tens of thousands protested peacefully. About 100 idiots decided to be idiots. They are going to jail. This happens at every political event.
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Please share with us the number of injured police officers, the amount of destroyed property, and the number of arrests from the protests at ObamaÂ’s inauguration in 2009 or 2013.

Inauguration protests: Police injured, more than 200 arrested
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...-march/index.html?client=ms-android-sprint-us
 
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#38
#38
Carl Pickens said:
When BHO was first elected I hoped that he would be good for the country. I didn't protest, harass anyone or generally act like a repugnant ass.
Unfortunately, it didn't take long at all for his policy and behaviors coupled with his liberal stooge army in the House and Senate to make realize he was a turd in the punch bowl. Trump may end up the same..... I hope not, but who knows?

All I know for sure is that I don't have to hear BHO say " let me be clear" while lying to me one more time and it makes me very .... very happy.
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" That's not who we are " 😱
 
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#39
#39
JoeKyleVol said:
I'm only commenting in this thread to answer this comment.

No, monarchy is NOT a "plague," and some Founding Fathers even considered the idea of a monarch, albeit, an elective monarch. Hamilton even considered inviting Prince Henry of Prussia to be America's king.

An excellent article by The Federalist: Hail To The King! - The Federalist

Democracy has even more ability to steal away the rights of men through corruption and base impulse because, by will of the majority, such thefts of liberty are deemed legitimate; whereas, for a monarch, it is considered tyranny.

Another article for your reading pleasure:
The Mad Monarchist: Possible American Monarchs

I would argue having a hereditary constitutional monarchy would give greater consistency, foster more patriotism, and prove far better than having half the country hate the President every 4-8 years.
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Thank goodness we're a republic and not a democracy.

And BTW I'm not kneeling for anyone. Piss on a monarchy.
 
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#40
#40
zeppelin128 said:
Again, tens of thousands protested peacefully. About 100 idiots decided to be idiots. They are going to jail. This happens at every political event.
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No. More than two hundred were arrested. A hell of a lot more than that were "Acting foolishly".

Protesting is fine. Rioting is not. Destroying property is not. Violence is not.
 
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#43
#43
Last night the TV news made a big deal about how many fewer people were on the mall to witness the Trump inauguration than the Obama coronation. Of course they then showed some of the "demonstrations" - windows smashed, limo burning, etc, but they never made the connection about the fact that they had actually found some of the missing people from the mall. Not sure if that was more their biased reporting or inability to connect the dots.
 
#46
#46
JoeKyleVol said:
I'm only commenting in this thread to answer this comment.

No, monarchy is NOT a "plague," and some Founding Fathers even considered the idea of a monarch, albeit, an elective monarch. Hamilton even considered inviting Prince Henry of Prussia to be America's king.

An excellent article by The Federalist: Hail To The King! - The Federalist

Democracy has even more ability to steal away the rights of men through corruption and base impulse because, by will of the majority, such thefts of liberty are deemed legitimate; whereas, for a monarch, it is considered tyranny.

Another article for your reading pleasure:
The Mad Monarchist: Possible American Monarchs

I would argue having a hereditary constitutional monarchy would give greater consistency, foster more patriotism, and prove far better than having half the country hate the President every 4-8 years.
Click to expand...

no. Just No
 
#47
#47
Just to clarify, I don't support protests that are not peaceful. But I take great issue when people say, "suck it up, Trump won" because many of those same people were calling President Obama a Muslim, burning his likeness in effigy, questioning his citizenship, etc. Hypocrites are hypocrites, regardless of politics. All I'm saying is peaceful protest is a right of all Americans and should be encouraged, not demeaned. But no, people shouldn't be trashing businesses or trying to hurt people. And one of my previous posts was incorrect on the numbers arrested; closer to 300 would be more accurate Inauguration Day. But again, I ask: do you honestly believe no Tea Party supporter was ever arrested at the thousands of rallies held nationwide since 2010? It is an unfortunate byproduct of people gathering; more likely than not, someone is going to act foolish.
 
#48
#48
I don't get all these people saying this is the most divided we've ever been. Try 1861 and we aren't even close to being that divided.

Secondly, Obama completely ostracized many voters during his presidency. I'd say if anyone was a divider, he has to be a frontrunner.
 
#49
#49
zeppelin128 said:
Just to clarify, I don't support protests that are not peaceful. But I take great issue when people say, "suck it up, Trump won" because many of those same people were calling President Obama a Muslim, burning his likeness in effigy, questioning his citizenship, etc. Hypocrites are hypocrites, regardless of politics. All I'm saying is peaceful protest is a right of all Americans and should be encouraged, not demeaned. But no, people shouldn't be trashing businesses or trying to hurt people. And one of my previous posts was incorrect on the numbers arrested; closer to 300 would be more accurate Inauguration Day. But again, I ask: do you honestly believe no Tea Party supporter was ever arrested at the thousands of rallies held nationwide since 2010? It is an unfortunate byproduct of people gathering; more likely than not, someone is going to act foolish.
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I'm sure you had some crazy dumbbasses that were arrested but you didn't see large scale rioting and flat out destruction of private property.
 
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