More on Gruden

#26
#26
I do not believe a word I on boards anymore except Gruden is on the way....We have been trolled by many and in many ways....confusion abounds just want Jon.
 
#27
#27
Not sure how much of this is true, but assuming it is, I'm okay with most of his request. However, I am not okay with this. Might be time to look elsewhere if this is true. JMO.

He also wants to choose UT brand endorsements for the university, and wants the freedom to do endorsements himself (ones that do not acknowledge him as the UT coach). Also JG wants a long list of (non-causal) related reasons why he can leave UT, but won't be pinned down to any success metrics that give UT an out (Hart's counter).
 
#29
#29
Chatt- I am unable to maintain your track changes color, so I'll just answer generally:

The staff issue is more about the reporting relationship between staff and their supervisory body. This is always the AD. I think the fear would be that the coach having this authority creates liability for the university. Hiring in the pros doesn't carry the same risk. As for bonuses, my understanding is that they are asking for a big pool to distribute in a discretionary manner. This creates problems as it could set precedents across other university teams if suddenly one assistants comp was changed by 500k because the coach thought he should get it. I don't know the answer to the NCAA rules on endorsements question. To answer other folks' points regarding an attorney relationship and its confidentiality, the legal definition of an "agent" is someone who acts on behalf, and in the interest of, another. BL will hire outside counsel to review the doc, but he will do whatever he wants to "act on the behalf of" JG. That includes letting others leak if it serves them.
 
#31
#31
Bear- Let me know which parts you think are inaccurate, and I'll try to clarify. So far, the info I've been posting for three weeks has been accurate. I also hope to hear from my friend via email before lunch.
 
#32
#32
Gave you the benefit of the doubt with yesterday's folklore thread after you clarified. Not today.

Simply not true.
 
#33
#33
Orange_Crush said:
Not sure if true or not, but... If this is true, it is unethical behavior by our boosters, and one more instance of over-zealous boosters putting their university in a hard spot.

No booster, even with the best of intentions, should put the AD in a hard spot when trying to negotiate on UT's behalf. If this is true, I will not be heart-broken if we don't get Gruden (though i want him), and will hope for the best second option.
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I have to question your honesty when saying that you want Gruden. Firstly, if this is true, who is to say it is a booster leak? I would certainly hope that you extend the curticy to presume the boosters are innocent of this until such a time where all of the information is available and confirmation is given
 
#34
#34
Could just be terribly, terribly bad information being passed along to you. But either way, it's inaccurate.
 
#35
#35
Fair point Decker. I only know it did not come from the AD. My friend's assumption is that it is pressure from a subset of the boosters. Definitely not proven. Doc- I am not sure what you don't believe. I'm passing along what I've heard. Not only has what he has said about this situation been true, but also that of Golden, Fedora etc. After he said Golden was trying to exit via his escape clause on an ethics grounds, that was reported, and Miami countered to get him to stay. After he said Fedora would be interviewed, he was. That too was later reported. Everyone told me I was nuts when I conveyed JG would have demands higher than any other coach because he was represented by BL. This came true. I am not sure all of this will end up in a deal if they strike one, but I do believe they are really asking for these items.
 
#36
#36
Friend just shared, "No meeting between AD and JG today before 5. Hart will not go forward without meeting. 5pm deadline remains. Deal 100% off unless that changes. Sorry ."
 
#37
#37
sterlingpearling said:
Friend just shared, "No meeting between AD and JG today before 5. Hart will not go forward without meeting. 5pm deadline remains. Deal 100% off unless that changes. Sorry ."
Click to expand...

It'll "change" and Hart will be the hero. Just as scripted.
 
#38
#38
For some reason I believe what the OP is saying. If he is right, I believe it's time to move on. UT should not sell it's soul to JG.
 
#40
#40
Sterling,

Have you ever met, worked for, or otherwise had contact with Jimmy Stanton? An honest response would be great.
 
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#41
#41
sterlingpearling said:
Spoke to my friend just now (formerly worked for Lamonte)You can peruse my previous threads for further background. Please remember: I am sharing info to be helpful, not attacking your religion. I am a UT fan, my friend is indifferent to UT's success, but more connected to the day to day than the reporters who originally shared this info.

Things he knows 100%:

There is no contract. There is not even an MOU. There has been an OFFER LETTER extended, and terms have been discussed, but not agreed to. As we will all recall, coaches almost never receive a drafted contract until months after they begin their job, and usually don't even sign them for months, if not years due to their complexity and the back and forth. There is no contract. There is no MOU. There is an offer letter.

UT's most recent terms (as of Tuesday) EXCEEDED Gruden's requested staff salary.

JG (through BM) has requested some things that make Cheek/Hart uncomfortable. They include: Staff negotiation, hiring and firing of staff (normally a function performed by the AD), Scheduling out of conference opponents (normally a function performed by the AD), staff incentives and bonuses (not normally part of a deal like this). He also wants to choose UT brand endorsements for the university, and wants the freedom to do endorsements himself (ones that do not acknowledge him as the UT coach). Also JG wants a long list of (non-causal) related reasons why he can leave UT, but won't be pinned down to any success metrics that give UT an out (Hart's counter).

While Haslam and others have stayed out of the fray, some other very vocal boosters have told BM and Jon that they will get what they want. This is like baby deer giving a wolf permission to lick it as long as there is "no biting". Hart is now in a terrible spot. If he takes this deal, he is betting his career that this arrangement will be a miracle cure, and will have done so with terms unheard of in any other college deal. It will be "his deal" whether he likes the terms or not. If he does not take the deal, the fan base will be furious, and it will be very hard to carry on the search without paying another coach way too much money. The bar has been set so high that even a lesser hire, will bring disproportionally high dollars to his deal.

There is still a pending request from AD for an in person sit down by today at 5. Yesterday's developments do not reflect new terms from AD. They reflect new pressure being exerted by boosters. Hart's plan to use the 5pm deadline today is now wrecked. Expect someone to deny the "contract" report as they will be able to be honest in saying that there isn't one as they talk through the last terms of the offer letter.

Again- I don't have a horse in the race. I only hope we get the best coach for the program. I do fear the risk, but it is what it is. I will ask my friend some more specific questions via email before lunch, and report back.
Click to expand...

Very good intel - thanks for sharing!:good!:

I think what we need to keep in perspective is the fact that "Jon Gruden" is a brand. Whether we like it or not; that is an undeniable fact and this is a business negotiation. It will likely be a fairly complex business deal. One over and above that of the one existing between Saban and bammar.

That said:

Staff negotiation, hiring and firing of staff - Check - I'm good with this.

Scheduling out of conference opponents - Check - I'm good with this.

staff incentives and bonuses - Check - I'm good with this; it's a play right out of Saban's coaching manifesto.

He also wants to choose UT brand endorsements for the university - Check - I'm good with this. It implies the man wants to build something and knowing the business as he should; it's all about trust.

and wants the freedom to do endorsements himself - Not - this I have a problem with and likely the NCAA will too.

Also JG wants a long list of (non-causal) related reasons why he can leave UT, - Not - This is a potential deal killer. I understand JG feeling the necessity to protect the "Gruden" brand; but he's going to have to have some skin in the game.

but won't be pinned down to any success metrics that give UT an out - Not - By definition, this is a deal killer. But again, this is more about protecting the "Gruden" brand and nothing more.

Bottom line - it's going to have to be a "warm-n-fuzzy" deal for everyone or it won't get done...as structured now it is not "warm-n-fuzzy". No one is worth selling your soul for - but that's what negotiations are all about.
 
#43
#43
sterlingpearling said:
Spoke to my friend just now (formerly worked for Lamonte)You can peruse my previous threads for further background. Please remember: I am sharing info to be helpful, not attacking your religion. I am a UT fan, my friend is indifferent to UT's success, but more connected to the day to day than the reporters who originally shared this info.

Things he knows 100%:

There is no contract. There is not even an MOU. There has been an OFFER LETTER extended, and terms have been discussed, but not agreed to. As we will all recall, coaches almost never receive a drafted contract until months after they begin their job, and usually don't even sign them for months, if not years due to their complexity and the back and forth. There is no contract. There is no MOU. There is an offer letter.

UT's most recent terms (as of Tuesday) EXCEEDED Gruden's requested staff salary.

JG (through BM) has requested some things that make Cheek/Hart uncomfortable. They include: Staff negotiation, hiring and firing of staff (normally a function performed by the AD), Scheduling out of conference opponents (normally a function performed by the AD), staff incentives and bonuses (not normally part of a deal like this). He also wants to choose UT brand endorsements for the university, and wants the freedom to do endorsements himself (ones that do not acknowledge him as the UT coach). Also JG wants a long list of (non-causal) related reasons why he can leave UT, but won't be pinned down to any success metrics that give UT an out (Hart's counter).

While Haslam and others have stayed out of the fray, some other very vocal boosters have told BM and Jon that they will get what they want. This is like baby deer giving a wolf permission to lick it as long as there is "no biting". Hart is now in a terrible spot. If he takes this deal, he is betting his career that this arrangement will be a miracle cure, and will have done so with terms unheard of in any other college deal. It will be "his deal" whether he likes the terms or not. If he does not take the deal, the fan base will be furious, and it will be very hard to carry on the search without paying another coach way too much money. The bar has been set so high that even a lesser hire, will bring disproportionally high dollars to his deal.

There is still a pending request from AD for an in person sit down by today at 5. Yesterday's developments do not reflect new terms from AD. They reflect new pressure being exerted by boosters. Hart's plan to use the 5pm deadline today is now wrecked. Expect someone to deny the "contract" report as they will be able to be honest in saying that there isn't one as they talk through the last terms of the offer letter.

Again- I don't have a horse in the race. I only hope we get the best coach for the program. I do fear the risk, but it is what it is. I will ask my friend some more specific questions via email before lunch, and report back.
Click to expand...

Seems legit info.

1) I have always pointed to the fact UT don't offer contracts until the deal is done.

2) Everyone saying fire Hart if Gruden is gone is being unrealistic. Hart knows the desires of the fan base and wants to please them. He knows his job is toast if he doesn't. That being said the only way Gruden gets away is if he asks for more than UT can offer. This seems to be the case.

3) His posting etiquette looks like he is knowledgable and well versed in English. To me this takes him out of most Trolling statuses. Unlike others posting random and false info with stories and crazy fonts.

Only hang ups is low post count and the fact he could be a professional troll/conartist. That being said they are very hard to prove over the computer.

JMO
 
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#44
#44
Burney- I do not know him, but know who he is. I do not live in Knoxville, and have no close connections in the AD. I went to UT, but now live in the DC area.
 
#45
#45
The Waco Kid said:
Just as an outsider with no dog in the hunt, if this was Florida and the coach we were interviewing was asking for any of this, I'd tell him thank you and have a nice day, but we are no longer interested.

You can't cut off your nose to spite your face. This just seems like too much.

I think there has to be something to it because if Gruden wanted to be your coach that bad, he would find a way. This isn't on UT as far as the hold up, it's on Gruden. If you want to be at a place that bad, you make concessions on YOUR end to make it happen.
Click to expand...

Exactly..
 
#46
#46
Hurricane said:
I believe this because these were the supposed same reasons Miami stepped away from the Gruden negotiating table.
Click to expand...

Gruden would never have gone and coached the Canes. POS job and facilities. Outside of that I have wanted Gruden bad but to the point of saying screw it. He is just not worth having a total coaching salary of almost 12 mill and the control he wants. Time to move on and get a SEC guy, who is defensive minded and can recruit and coach. No more Dooley, experiment type coach's.
 
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#49
#49
While I wouldl love to have JG, UT should not give him evrything including the kitchen sink to get him. If his heart isnt in it for the right reasons then we need to move on and find a coach who can move us out of the basement of the SEC and represent our university with integrity and respect.
 
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#50
#50
Sometimes in business you have to walk away from a deal even if you're emotionally attached. Emotions can cause a person to not think clearly. Like posters on here.

If you took Grudens name out and read this "possible" contract it would be a no brainer to walk away.
 
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