More goodies -- the non-NCAA related incident

#101
#101
VolsDeep said:
he's not lying... at least not in my hypothetical... just that hammy was aware of pearl lying about it, or maybe even prompted him to lie about it (again, just referring to lying to the media, not internally which is why williams was suspended but dubbed it a back injury) in order to avoid even further bad press....

You're probably right, and i realize this is a long shot, but trying to wrap my mind around what the hell must have happened in the past 2 weeks to make UT shift from "he is our coach and we support him" to firing a coach that took us to the elite 8 last year....
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I'm with you now. I'm just not so sure they would have needed to do that to justify his firing. But, I guess it's a possible scenario.
 
#102
#102
I hate to log in here & post my first comment after joining so long ago on this issue, but you guys can't be right. If our drug testing is under the athletic dept & coaches have access to results before a higher up does, we deserve lack of institutional control because that's pretty much proof there is none.

Maybe it's the accountant in me but you don't let the person writing the checks (testing) balance the checkbook (receive the results first & decide the punishment). The school sets those parameters. If not, it's a wonder we've not received the death penalty earlier for lack of common sense.
 
#103
#103
VolWoman said:
I hate to log in here & post my first comment after joining so long ago on this issue, but you guys can't be right. If our drug testing is under the athletic dept & coaches have access to results before a higher up does, we deserve lack of institutional control because that's pretty much proof there is none.

Maybe it's the accountant in me but you don't let the person writing the checks (testing) balance the checkbook (receive the results first & decide the punishment). The school sets those parameters. If not, it's a wonder we've not received the death penalty earlier for lack of common sense.
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Good post. I would say the scenario would be that an AD official was approached by the staff and convinced to cover up the test. That's about all that makes sense.

Welcome to VN!
 
#104
#104
LawVol13 said:
I'm with you now. I'm just not so sure they would have needed to do that to justify his firing. But, I guess it's a possible scenario.
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hell, they didn't need anything else to justify his firing to begin with... ... most coaches would have lost their job months ago. That's why I'm thinking that something happened in the past couple weeks to convince Hammy that if Pearl was gone, the ncaa would issue a lighter sentence. And so they just decided to empty their dirty closet on the embattled coach on his way out...
 
#106
#106
VolWoman said:
I hate to log in here & post my first comment after joining so long ago on this issue, but you guys can't be right. If our drug testing is under the athletic dept & coaches have access to results before a higher up does, we deserve lack of institutional control because that's pretty much proof there is none.

Maybe it's the accountant in me but you don't let the person writing the checks (testing) balance the checkbook (receive the results first & decide the punishment). The school sets those parameters. If not, it's a wonder we've not received the death penalty earlier for lack of common sense.
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If we have anything other than an officially approved drug testing program, then Hamilton committed career suicide by bringing it up in tonight's press release. So surely we can rule that out.

Maybe Pearl was fudging the way Williams took the test to begin with because he knew a positive was likely? Who knows.
 
#107
#107
LawVol13 said:
Good post. I would say the scenario would be that an AD official was approached by the staff and convinced to cover up the test. That's about all that makes sense.

Welcome to VN!
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Then how is that not a major, Hamilton-screwing problem as well? Why would he even bring it up?
 
#108
#108
we don't even know it was a cover-up... maybe this small little slip up (williams faililng drug test) provided enough of an excuse to do what hammy and co. had already planned on doing...
 
#109
#109
LawVol13 said:
Good post. I would say the scenario would be that an AD official was approached by the staff and convinced to cover up the test. That's about all that makes sense.

Welcome to VN!
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Thanks for the welcome. What you said would be the only reason that justified putting that in the press release, but I still don't see it.

If it is true, we need a more independent person in the Athletic Dept. I think they might have been better off to leave that out of the release if your scenario is correct. That's admitting your AD controls are pretty sorry assuming Katz is accurate in his reporting.
 
#110
#110
Vercingetorix said:
Then how is that not a major, Hamilton-screwing problem as well? Why would he even bring it up?
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You're right. I didn't properly explain. The scenario I envisioned was this: Whoever is doing the tests was approached by the staff and intimidated into covering it up. Hamilton finds out about it. Thus, another problem for Bruce. Other than something like that, I can't really imagine how Pearl could have covered it up without Hamilton being complicit in it. And you're obviously right, he's not going to bring that up if that was the case.
 
#111
#111
VolWoman said:
Thanks for the welcome. What you said would be the only reason that justified putting that in the press release, but I still don't see it.

If it is true, we need a more independent person in the Athletic Dept. I think they might have been better off to leave that out of the release if your scenario is correct. That's admitting your AD controls are pretty sorry assuming Katz is accurate in his reporting.
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Another good post. I was really wrong to put AD official. What I was meaning was a person involved in the drug testing, whoever that may be. As vercing said, I'm sure they have the same procedure that all other schools use.
 
#112
#112
I just hope Williams gets to graduate. He's the first person in his family who's going to graduate from college. It would suck for him to miss out on that because of this story, considering that I knew a few guys who smoked literally every single day of their college careers.
 
#113
#113
Vercingetorix said:
I just hope Williams gets to graduate. He's the first person in his family who's going to graduate from college. It would suck for him to miss out on that because of this story, considering that I knew a few guys who smoked literally every single day of their college careers.
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I agree 100%.
 
#114
#114
LawVol13 said:
Another good post. I was really wrong to put AD official. What I was meaning was a person involved in the drug testing, whoever that may be. As vercing said, I'm sure they have the same procedure that all other schools use.
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That's the only think I could see that would be a coach's responsibility. If BW got called in for a random test & they asked or paid a testing person to hide the results.

Even if that's true, they need two people doing the testing together I guess. Something to prevent it from happening. We make ourselves look bad here. Since Katz spilled the beans on BW, I hope he gets more details because this just makes no sense.
 
#115
#115
I can't believe all the assumptions here...and I can't imagine a player being given a drug test and only the coach getting the results...does Bruce give them the test personally?...of course not, I'm not sure who does give the tests but you can bet it would not be Bruce's idea to give a player a test he might fail during conference/NCAA tournaments....ANY test given now would be under scrunity by the administration I would think?...the idea that Bruce knew of a test failure and was able to lie to the administration would surprise me..OK, I regress, I guess...nothing surprises me now, but actually that would
 
#116
#116
BSI said:
I can't believe all the assumptions here...and I can't imagine a player being given a drug test and only the coach getting the results...does Bruce give them the test personally?...of course not, I'm not sure who does give the tests but you can bet it would not be Bruce's idea to give a player a test he might fail during conference/NCAA tournaments....ANY test given now would be under scrunity by the administration I would think?...the idea that Bruce knew of a test failure and was able to lie to the administration would surprise me..OK, I regress, I guess...nothing surprises me now, but actually that would
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Nobody's making assumptions. We have a report that Pearl is in trouble over a failed drug test by Brian Williams where he missed games but the school reported that it was for an injury. We are trying to figure out a scenario that fits those parameters, is all. It's the potential discrepancy between a failed drug test and a team-reported back injury that has people speculating about a possible coverup.
 
#117
#117
BSI said:
I can't believe all the assumptions here...and I can't imagine a player being given a drug test and only the coach getting the results...does Bruce give them the test personally?...of course not, I'm not sure who does give the tests but you can bet it would not be Bruce's idea to give a player a test he might fail during conference/NCAA tournaments....ANY test given now would be under scrunity by the administration I would think?...the idea that Bruce knew of a test failure and was able to lie to the administration would surprise me..OK, I regress, I guess...nothing surprises me now, but actually that would
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Why was the non NCAA violation brought up in a press release about pearl being fired if pearl wasn't somehow tied to the situation?
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#118
#118
This was most likely a AD drug test as opposed to a NCAA drug test.

These guys get 24 hours notice of the test and typically have to report to a central location like the training room to take the test. It would have been administered by the Athletic Training staff and/or reps from an outside labs. Very possible it was a combination of both. The results would typically be reported back to the Athletic Training staff. From there protocol would typically be to inform the HC and the AD. This is a pretty standard practice at most schools. UT did implement some changes a year or so ago to some of the policies, so I am not 100% up to date on everything.

i think the main part of the new policy was less tolerance of how many chances you get and severity of punishment. Back in the day, a kid might fail multiple test before they faced any real consequence (Onterrio Smith might hold the record).

My assumption would be that under the new policy, Williams got a 2 game suspension after Pearl and Hamilton were notified of the results. For whatever reason, Pearl decided it was better to lie once more to the media and say that Williams was injured. Instead of outing him, Hamilton waited bc he knew that BP was on his way out.
 
#119
#119
Vercingetorix said:
Nobody's making assumptions. We have a report that Pearl is in trouble over a failed drug test by Brian Williams where he missed games but the school reported that it was for an injury. We are trying to figure out a scenario that fits those parameters, is all. It's the potential discrepancy between a failed drug test and a team-reported back injury that has people speculating about a possible coverup.
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fair enough, thanks for clearing the picture for me...I probably had not read all the thread but the speculations seemed a little advanced for me...I guess we are all searching for the same thing or more such hoping we don't find it at all...GBO!!!
 
#120
#120
GoVols2003 said:
This was most likely a AD drug test as opposed to a NCAA drug test.

These guys get 24 hours notice of the test and typically have to report to a central location like the training room to take the test. It would have been administered by the Athletic Training staff and/or reps from an outside labs. Very possible it was a combination of both. The results would typically be reported back to the Athletic Training staff. From there protocol would typically be to inform the HC and the AD. This is a pretty standard practice at most schools. UT did implement some changes a year or so ago to some of the policies, so I am not 100% up to date on everything.

i think the main part of the new policy was less tolerance of how many chances you get and severity of punishment. Back in the day, a kid might fail multiple test before they faced any real consequence (Onterrio Smith might hold the record).

My assumption would be that under the new policy, Williams got a 2 game suspension after Pearl and Hamilton were notified of the results. For whatever reason, Pearl decided it was better to lie once more to the media and say that Williams was injured. Instead of outing him, Hamilton waited bc he knew that BP was on his way out.
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Thanks for the info.

If that's it, and everything was handled correctly in-house and Pearl's only transgression was lying to the media about why Williams was out, then it's idiotic to hold that up as a reason to fire him. Who cares what Pearl says to the media? Surely there's something more to it than that.
 
#121
#121
Vercingetorix said:
Thanks for the info.

If that's it, and everything was handled correctly in-house and Pearl's only transgression was lying to the media about why Williams was out, then it's idiotic to hold that up as a reason to fire him. Who cares what Pearl says to the media? Surely there's something more to it than that.
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Probably is something more. If he simply lied, maybe there view was not the severity or audience of the lie, but the continued pattern of lying when he is supposed to be on his best behavior.
 
#122
#122
orangespirit said:
Why was the non NCAA violation brought up in a press release about pearl being fired if pearl wasn't somehow tied to the situation?
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good question, Hamilton's statement calls for an answer to that but what he said doesn't mean anything till we find the answer...I recall Brian taking hard falls on his back but I don't recall which games honestly...I've been on the road constantly so my viewing of games has been limited unfortunately....and so has my sleep, so I'm gonna leave this to you who are more in tune :)...thanks for the correspondice and let's Keep the Faith

Peace
 
#123
#123
Freak said:
Team officials said Williams didn't participate in two games due to a bad back, but it appears he missed those games because of a substance violation.
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This keeps getting better and better.
Maybe when we get a new coach we can move on and put this behind us.
GO VOLS!
 
#125
#125
I don't buy much of this story, especially the team driven testing and coverup. Mitt have failed a test, but the school can't comment, so it isn't coming from admin or staff. I can guarantee this wasn't done to keep Williams from being tossed. The story to the public was likely to make the program look better as the image was falling lower.
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