Miller and Payne GON

#101
#101
grobin4300 said:
I just saw a quote from CBJ stating that the Vols will be one of the youngest teams in the country in 2015................hmmm! Is he already laying the groundwork (excuses) for another 6-6, 7-5 season..............next year, JFWIW, he's got to prove he can coach as we know he can recruit...........I don't want to put him in my list of "Great Recruiter - Average Coach" ala John Cooper (OSU), Dabo Sweeney (Clemson), young Philip Fulmer (Tenn)
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Lord Jesus! I doubt anyone on here can imagine what winning seasons like those three coached put up even look like. I hope Butch ends up being that pathetic here soon.
 
#102
#102
All the number talk in this thread has me wondering, where is Leb?
Really, where is Leb.





Seriously, not kidding, anyone seen Leb.
 
#107
#107
livefaith said:
Lord Jesus! I doubt anyone on here can imagine what winning seasons like those three coached put up even look like. I hope Butch ends up being that pathetic here soon.
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All the whining over the youth statement really grinds my gears. First of all, it was more of an offhand comment. Second of all, it's not untrue. Sure, we won't depend on freshmen next season like we did this year, but we'll still be leaning heavily on second year players and counting on 3-4 newcomers to contribute or provide depth in key spots. We'll still be just an injury away from playing freshman at quite a few spotsーmost notably (and frighteningly) QB if Peterman transfers.
 
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#108
#108
Look I know that these guys weren't productive right now, but they were freshmen. If lack of depth and experience was our problem, then how come so many guys who were highly regarded coming out of high school are walking away?
 
#109
#109
VolFanInHawaii said:
Look I know that these guys weren't productive right now, but they were freshmen. If lack of depth and experience was our problem, then how come so many guys who were highly regarded coming out of high school are walking away?
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Because they were 17 or 18 and made a decision to leave places and family and friends they grew up with and want to go home?

It happens... it will be OK. Some of these kids were probably sold on immediate playing time and for whatever reason it didn't happen. High school guys are big fishes in little ponds and sometimes have a hard time adjusting to being a small fish in a big pond. When you expect to come in and have a Derek Barnett year and have a Derrell Scott year and you add homesickness and an academic workload on top, it is too much for some guys to handle.

Do I think Butch and staff should manage these guys a little better regarding these potential issues? Yes. However I think after a few similar cycles, with a roster of not just "Butch recruits" but "Butch guys"... guys who are tough, passionate, bleed orange, and invest themselves in the program... we will see less and less of this sort of volatility. It sucks to lose guys with the potential of Hendrix, Helm, and Scott... but I think the loss of guys like Payne and Miller are being blown out of proportion some.

Jmo tifwiw et al.
 
#111
#111
fade route said:
Great recruiting classes with multiple transfers.......is Butch over-selling playing time to these recruits? Just a question.
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Overselling? I don't really think so. I mean most of these guys would be redshirting at most programs and are seeing significant minutes and some starting. I think some probably aren't seeing as much playing time as they would like. Bigger recruiting classes generally lead to more attrition. Auburn had similar defections back when they were taking 30 players in a class.
 
#112
#112
Hoghater said:
Nice, hopefully I will be retiring to East Tennessee in a few years.
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Like button X 1000!!

I've got 24 years active duty under my belt and possibly 6 more before I retire, move to God's country and join the VOL Navy!!! Can't wait!
 
#113
#113
Bob Mueller said:
Kenny Bynum and Brett Kendrick are possibilities. Bynum more so than Kendrick. Both of these guys have outperformed the players in front of them, yet they don't start. I think Kendrick stays and Bynum transfers. Just a guess on those two. Guys like Bowles, Peterman, Blanc and Lemond Johnson haven't been announced, but will be gone for sure.
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Speculation or are you connected?

Bynum's potential doesn't look as high as Johnson's. I suspect that's why they're pushing the way they are. OTOH, Kendrick looks more athletic than some of the guys playing in front of him. Unless there are off the field discipline issues as some have suggested... that one is hard to figure.
 
#114
#114
landscapingvol said:
Clearly the coaching staff wants to sabotage their own jobs by not starting the best players at their positions
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Johnson isn't as polished or as strong. But the staff seems to see a ton of potential there and are willing to let him play into it.
 
#115
#115
SlyStone said:
So did Hendrix. Something is not right on the Hill.
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I got involved in a lengthy argument with several people for suggesting this same thing. It does appear that the staff needs to make some adjustments.

The weirdest thing to me isn't players leaving or even them leaving after having been given PT (though that is weird). The part I have never noticed happening anywhere before is the number who left with a bowl game left to play. It seems that they would want that experience and the staff would want their participation?

Has anyone ever noticed this many players voluntarily leaving a team between the last regular season game and a bowl?

Dallas left during the season last year as well which was kind of odd for a guy getting playing time.
 
#116
#116
Darth_Shiveman said:
So does anybody think that with the addition of Tuttle, Mckenzie, and Picou, there could be a chance of Mixon maybe sliding back over to his more natural position of SDE next season? Probably a bit of a stretch, but it could be an option.
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Very good point. I hope that's part of the equation. After watching McKenzie's tape, I also wonder if he couldn't play SDE. He has the explosiveness and appears to possess DE quickness.

FTR, Miller did play very little meaningful snaps this year.
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But one of the excuses/reasons given for UT not winning more games was that there had not been enough time to develop players. How many times was it said and repeated that playing Fr is bad and that players usually need 2 to 3 years to develop? This guy played in his 2nd year. Now we're saying it is OK to trade an experienced 3rd year player for a true Fr.

It can't be both ways. Either it hurts to have a guy like Miller leave or experience and development aren't the critical factors we have been repeatedly told.

Miller's departure leaves our 2015 DE rotation looking something like:

Maggit/Vereen/Lewis/Taylor
Barnett/Butcher/Ford
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Too much dependence on Fr for depth... if we stay consistent with the explanations for why UT couldn't compete against top teams in '13 and '14.

Losing Miller and Hendrix definitely doesn't make our DL any better (though it's not like we're having to replace any production from them), but that still looks like a superior group of DL from the 2014 season to me.
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If this is true then a lack of experienced, developed depth cannot be a reason given for losing, right?

Not just busting your chops but there are some inherent inconsistencies between the way these losses are being dismissed now and the reasons/excuses given for UT's struggles over the past two years.
 
#118
#118
Darth_Shiveman said:
All the whining over the youth statement really grinds my gears. First of all, it was more of an offhand comment. Second of all, it's not untrue. Sure, we won't depend on freshmen next season like we did this year, but we'll still be leaning heavily on second year players and counting on 3-4 newcomers to contribute or provide depth in key spots. We'll still be just an injury away from playing freshman at quite a few spotsーmost notably (and frighteningly) QB if Peterman transfers.
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The problem is that many seem to want it both ways. They want to say the departure of guys with experience and development doesn't matter while preserving the excuse that youth could become or will be a problem in '15.

If playing Fr could tank the Vols in '15 then losing the players who are leaving is a very, very big deal.... not something that should just be handwaved like so many are doing.
 
#119
#119
bignewt said:
not losing a wink of sleep over it myself but you guys keep fretting.
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This is recreation. Don't assume that many if any of us are "losing a wink of sleep" over it.

If people arguing over football and taking it somewhat serious bothers you then this is definitely the wrong place for you. But there is NOTHING discussed here even by avid fans worth losing sleep over.
 
#120
#120
Coaching staff and Butch had only a year to build relationships and recruit the 2014 class. Transfers and attrition will occur every year.

The 2014 class was the legacy class and focused so much on player relationships and playing time, not so much about the coaches, thus the high attrition rate.

Don't think this will be too much of an issue. Staff will have at least 2 years recruiting these kids and a better relationship and those kids will know what to expect of the staff coming in.
 
#121
#121
sjt18 said:
This is recreation. Don't assume that many if any of us are "losing a wink of sleep" over it.

If people arguing over football and taking it somewhat serious bothers you then this is definitely the wrong place for you. But there is NOTHING discussed here even by avid fans worth losing sleep over.
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figure of speech Captain Literal. You keep on typing about it in length though.
 
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#122
#122
I think if our team was made up of more upperclassmen none of these guys transfer with the exception of Helm. Also I don't see how you can figure Riley and Henderson into the mix, Riley chose to walk away on his own without even trying to compete. Henderson was merely an academic casualty.
 
#124
#124
I think all of this has to do with post season player evaluations. Not everybody can take the 'here's where you're at' talk, particularly college age kids who've had the world by the tail. Mix in a little homesickness, grade issues, etc. and easy to see 8-10 guys taking off for different pastures. I don't think CBJ is going to let too many cap and jacket guys hang around taking up scholarships.
 
#125
#125
sjt18 said:
Not spinning a thing. Losing 5 of the 7 guys you sign at a single position over two classes requires not "spinning". It isn't good.


So remind me... playing true Fr is or is not a reason for losing? DL's do or do not need 2 to 3 years of development normally before approaching their potential?

Hopefully they've made some kind of adjustment in response to the losses at that position. I asked you rhetorical questions because we BOTH know that you can't depend on Fr for your depth at DE and you DO need guys to stay in the program so they can be developed.


FTR, I noticed Miller in quite a bit and not just for mop up. Plus, he had a couple of years of development behind him. With another year of development, we could have seen his potential. We will never know how much of a role he might have carved out for himself.
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Barnett doesn't like your analysis.
 
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