Mike Leach reflects on recruiting Josh Heupel

#51

butchna

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#51
Talk as trash as you want, but both passing systems are still very prevalent in the game today. When you say “in it’s true form”, it’s an absurd question because everything evolves. If you’re asking how many teams run it exactly as it was in 98 at Kentucky? I’m sure the answer is 0. Even Mumme and Leach have evolved.

But yes, both still survive at both the nfl and the d1 level. Run n shoot concepts (the switch route especially) are a part of almost every modern passing game. As are west coast/air raid schemes (you really can’t separate them because they’re the same). Everyone in America runs sail (3 level flood), stick, shallow, and drive.
How are you taking it as “talking trash”? We disagree and are at a hopeless impasse. Let it die on the vine.
 
#54

Vol8188

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#54
I guess it’s personal for you. I’m not a fan of it and I prove it.
I’m not convinced why you believe it’s personal for me, nor have you proven anything. You’ve only succeeded in making multiple false claims (Air raid=run n shoot instead of west coast, and that the run n shoot doesn’t produce 1,000 yard rushers).
 
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#55

butchna

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#55
I’m not convinced why you believe it’s personal for me, nor have you proven anything. You’ve only succeeded in making multiple false claims (Air raid=run n shoot instead of west coast, and that the run n shoot doesn’t produce 1,000 yard rushers).
Why else would you care if I don’t like the offense? My take isn’t shooting from the hip. It’s formed from my observations dating back to the 80’s. I’ve SUCCEEDED in expressing that. The run & shoot and Air Raid place no value in the running back position. And keep it straight! I didn’t say the Air Raid = the Run & Shoot...just Mumme’s version.
 
#57

GAVol

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#57
Before Ky, started at Valdosta St, that program has had many top coaches. Hal Mumme and Mike Leach, Chris Hatcher, Dana Holgerson, Will Muschamp, Kirby Smart, Greg McMahon, Guy Morriss, Robby Brown, Kerwin Bell, etc. Insane list
It’s true. I’ve actually known Chris Hatcher since I was about 12. He was always a good athlete but it’s mindblowing that he went from being a manager to winning the equivalent of the Division II Heisman running Mumme’s offense.
 
#58

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#58
Jamal Anderson had his heyday under Dan Reeves. He definitely didn’t run it. Who were the 1000 yard rushers under Glanville and June Jones?
Anderson ran for 1000 in June Jones’ last year. The other two were Ironhead Heyward and Eric Pegram.
 
#59

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#59
I’m cursed with knowing what I’m talking about. The Falcons were a powerhouse when they tinkered with that Mickey Mouse Davis crap? The Air Raid in it’s pure form? What “top programs” run it? Somebody threw out the Arizona Cardinals? They make the playoffs while I wasn’t looking?
The Falcons were actually decent in the early 90s when they had Deion Sanders and Andre Rison running around.

I’d say the Rams have been ok lately.
 
#60

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#60
Anyone who has watched OU since L.R. came on the scene knows that what the Sooners run is not a true "air raid." In fact, noone runs a true "air raid" these days. The offense has morphed over time into numerous iterations depending on the team and the personnel. Even at OU it is different each year because of the QB and or the talent skills around him. OU has had some great RB tandems that have contributed to a very balanced attack...Samaje Perrine/Joe Mixon; Rodney Anderson/Trey Sermon; Kennedy Brooks/Trey Sermon. Statistically, we run the ball more than we throw it. Add QB's like Kyler Murray and Jalen Hurts and running the ball is a feature in the Sooner offense. Just because the QB isn't under center or their are muliple receivers split out does not make it a pure air raid. Huepel will do what his personnel allow him to do.
No doubt about it. Basically Air Raid has gotten married to Spread Option.
 
#61

butchna

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#61
The Falcons were actually decent in the early 90s when they had Deion Sanders and Andre Rison running around.

I’d say the Rams have been ok lately.
A season...then nothing. Chris Miller begat Jeff George. What the Rams run is not Run & Shoot...or Air Raid.
 
#63

secking

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#63
It’s true. I’ve actually known Chris Hatcher since I was about 12. He was always a good athlete but it’s mindblowing that he went from being a manager to winning the equivalent of the Division II Heisman running Mumme’s offense.
Yeah, good guy and if I’m not mistaken, Hatcher is the winningest coach there and they’ve won a few national championships.
 
#64

SGMVols

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#64
Idk where you came up with this notation, but the data suggests the complete opposite. Saban’s defenses have gotten worse and his teams have gotten better. Offensive production is far more correlated with success than defense
Ole Miss statistically had the best offense in the SEC last year and was still only a .500 team because of their bad defense.
 
#67

jps2194

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#67
ESPN having MSSt ranked 8th says a ton about Leach and the coach he is.
Just shows how stupid these ratings are. No way Miss St. should be that high. For those of you that didn't click on that link. These are some of the teams ranked immediately below Miss St.:
Oklahoma State Cowboys
Penn State Nittany Lions
Texas Longhorns
North Carolina Tar Heels
Florida Gators
Wisconsin Badgers
Auburn Tigers
Oregon Ducks
LSU Tigers
TCU Horned Frogs
Miami Hurricanes
Texas Tech Red Raiders
 
#68

tbh

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#68
It’s true. I’ve actually known Chris Hatcher since I was about 12. He was always a good athlete but it’s mindblowing that he went from being a manager to winning the equivalent of the Division II Heisman running Mumme’s offense.
No kidding? He and Lori (and later Ty) lived next door to my folks and I back during his early VSU HC days. Good, down to earth folks for sure!
 
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#69

Rylee_Vol18

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#69
Run n shoot is more vertical, has plenty of examples of 1,000 yard rushers, and involves more option routes.

If you speak to Leach or Mumme (I’ve had the opportunity to meet Mumme, his son Matt, and Riley at clinics), both will tell you about their hours spent studying BYU and their pilgrimages to BYU to meet with their staff.

The west coast verbiage is even preserved in the air raid verbiage with terms such as shallow and stick. Those are not plays in the run n shoot.

The main plays in run n shoot are y go and x choice are not part of the air raid playbook. Nor are half roll outs a major part of the air raid.

The air raid is just the spread version of the west coast.
You're wasting your time. That dude thinks he knows everything and will never admit that he's wrong.
 

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