Michelle Marciniak's Take

[Bigorangefaninga]

Love flows like lava for CRB after a similar loss. (And I like RB, just saying.)

CRB did not have the misfortune of following the greatest coach of all time of any sport.... and it’s a different fanbase. It will be interesting to see if, once CHW does move on, if the haters will defend her successor after similar losses with similar circumstances, etc.

CRB has a program at UT without much history, never been to a final four, 1 ever elite 8, and you compare that to Lady Vols BB that has more NC than men's basketball, football, baseball and most any other sport you want to add combined? Not sure how that logic fits but keep with it! And back to Michelle's post, So which is it Michelle, either Holly doesnt follow the blueprint that Pat laid out for her and isnt a good coach OR did the game just passed Pat Summit up and her blueprint doesnt work anymore? So which is it? Because something sure as heck isnt working and supposedly we recruited such a great class and have so many great players including the former number 1 player in America playing for this team that couldn't beat Oregon State a school thats highest player EVER signed is Mikayla Pivec who was ranked 24st and yet 3rd straight year of sweet 16 and have a final four under their belt in 2016. Alas, what a good coach can do for a school!

 

[BowlBrother85]

I highly disagree with Marciniak's post. In fact, for a player who was great at TN and played under CPS, it's a bit disappointing to see that kind of logic. The coach is the first person responsible.

I don't think you can ever blame a former player for defending a former coach. In turn, however, that former player should understand why there is such criticism. There isn't much to compare this to from the Summitt era. I remember Xavier in '01 but that was without Catchings, I remember Iowa in '93 but that was on their home court. Most of our losses in the tournament from '95 to '08 were either to UConn or some other highly seeded team - and never at home.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

If they were told to do this and didn't...

If I tell my child to do something and she/he doesn't do it,,,that's on me, not them...Who is leading whom?

Seriously, have you truly ever coached a game? Do players always do as instructed? Does emotion or fatigue or whatever not distract from the plan?

Come on.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

I don't think you can ever blame a former player for defending a former coach. In turn, however, that former player should understand why there is such criticism. There isn't much to compare this to from the Summitt era. I remember Xavier in '01 but that was without Catchings, I remember Iowa in '93 but that was on their home court. Most of our losses in the tournament from '95 to '08 were either to UConn or some other highly seeded team - and never at home.

Oregon State was ranked above us in the Coaches' Poll. It's not like they are a scrub, people. They were under-seeded.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Come on Chatt. . . Given the roster accolades, fanbase and tradition,

CRB over-achieved, even with that loss.

Same results. The roster accolades are a feather in the cap, but you guys are saying it's just about wins & losses. Doing less with more or more with less shouldn't matter for you folks who see nothing but the bottom line

 

[Remy]

Big Tuna's quote rings forever in my head, "You are who your numbers say you are." I appreciate this young woman's point of view. However IMO it is based on a lot of sentiment for Pat since Holly was her pick. However the Lady Vols are in decline led by Coach Warlick. It is way past time for her to go based on performance and her numbers, not feelings. Pat left a stable of women succeeding across a variety of paths in life including coaching women's basketball and one of them should be brought in immediately IMO. My personal choice is next door in Dawn Staley.

 

[T-TownVol]

Same results. The roster accolades are a feather in the cap, but you guys are saying it's just about wins & losses. Doing less with more or more with less shouldn't matter for you folks who see nothing but the bottom line

The two "likes" must be from FP and 376.....

 

[teacherdean]

From Facebook -

Ok so it's been 4 hours and I have some words, not many but some as it relates to our #ladyvols.

I was a player, so was Abby and Pashen and Tamika and Semeka and Chamique and Candace and Dawn and Shelley and Lisa and Pam and and and......

And I'm sorry but you just can't blame this on the coach.

Players play. Players make plays. Players win games. Players make free throws or they don't. Players are on the court. Players are in control. Players contest shots. Players get defensive stops. Players make or cause turnovers. Players take charges or punk out and don't sacrifice their bodies to do so. Players hit chippies or they don't. Players dive after loose balls or they choose not to.

Players are taught by their leaders, their coaches and I cannot stress enough the experience of this staff who is coaching these kids....is beyond what any other program can ask for.

The grass is NOT greener on the other side folks.

Players need to mature. Players need to value winning. Players need to feel the pain. So the next time when pain is looming, it feels different and therefore they will get a different outcome.

I really don't care if some fans don't agree with what I am saying but we have great players and great players need to step up as they always have in the TN program. Onus is on the players.

I will remind everyone that in 1996, we were 5 years without a Championship and Pat was as stressed as anyone EVER. She put the blame ON US to win. Mark my word, it was ours to win or not.

So please before you throw a baby out with the bathwater in blaming Holly, just remember it's a journey, not a sprint. In today's Me first, Video game reset world, everyone wants to get rid of the coach and think it will make it all right. Not so people.

Holly is a Pat's protege. She's got her blue print mapped in her body, soul and mind. You won't get any better, any closer to Pat than Holly.

I'd like everyone to think about this post as we tend not to blame the players only the coaches. Trust me, Pat blamed us and held us responsible.

Time for the players to own up. Whether anyone likes to read this or not, it's true and you can't argue it because I have been there and done that. 18 to 21 year olds are adults.

As a former coach it is difficult to lay the blame fully on the players because you as a coach have some control. A good coach does not allow the animals to run the zoo. I took the full blame for loses, because it was up to me to make sure they followed my directions. I made my players, and myself, accountable.

I agree that a lot of the success of a team’s success depends upon the players’ attitudes and self accountability. When I played I did not want to disappoint my coach or my fellow players. In today’s attitude of me first, and to hell with everyone else, requires a different style of coaching, than what existed during Pat’s successful years, I saw that as Lady Vol fortunes changed. Just maybe being just a good X’s and O’s Coach is not enough. Maybe what worked for Pat may not work today in this environment. Holly may need to change directions. No matter what the Lady Vols may never be what they once were, however, if you can’t control players and they are left to their own devices, it is for sure we never will. That would be really sad.

 

[1TheCoach1]

With all due respect, this is 100% on the coach. If she can't motivate a team full of McDonald's All American's to play she has no business coaching. If players aren't giving effort why are they allowed to remain on the court? That is on the coach. It looks worse and worse every passing year. You don't blame the players when the coach seems to care nothing at all about winning. In Holly's own words "it isn't about winning and losing". What coach other than Butch Jones says that?

 

[allenfan1]

From Facebook -

Ok so it's been 4 hours and I have some words, not many but some as it relates to our #ladyvols.

I was a player, so was Abby and Pashen and Tamika and Semeka and Chamique and Candace and Dawn and Shelley and Lisa and Pam and and and......

And I'm sorry but you just can't blame this on the coach.

Players play. Players make plays. Players win games. Players make free throws or they don't. Players are on the court. Players are in control. Players contest shots. Players get defensive stops. Players make or cause turnovers. Players take charges or punk out and don't sacrifice their bodies to do so. Players hit chippies or they don't. Players dive after loose balls or they choose not to.

Players are taught by their leaders, their coaches and I cannot stress enough the experience of this staff who is coaching these kids....is beyond what any other program can ask for.

The grass is NOT greener on the other side folks.

Players need to mature. Players need to value winning. Players need to feel the pain. So the next time when pain is looming, it feels different and therefore they will get a different outcome.

I really don't care if some fans don't agree with what I am saying but we have great players and great players need to step up as they always have in the TN program. Onus is on the players.

I will remind everyone that in 1996, we were 5 years without a Championship and Pat was as stressed as anyone EVER. She put the blame ON US to win. Mark my word, it was ours to win or not.

So please before you throw a baby out with the bathwater in blaming Holly, just remember it's a journey, not a sprint. In today's Me first, Video game reset world, everyone wants to get rid of the coach and think it will make it all right. Not so people.

Holly is a Pat's protege. She's got her blue print mapped in her body, soul and mind. You won't get any better, any closer to Pat than Holly.

I'd like everyone to think about this post as we tend not to blame the players only the coaches. Trust me, Pat blamed us and held us responsible.

Time for the players to own up. Whether anyone likes to read this or not, it's true and you can't argue it because I have been there and done that. 18 to 21 year olds are adults.

You are correct about one thing we can't blame it on the coach because we don't have one. You want to talk about Pat, well lets do. How many times did you not see her in the officials ear time down court. How many times did you see her giving her players a pat on the butt after half hearted playing, she instead met them with a finger in their face with that iconic stare. How many times did she allow players not to give 100% (none). She seems clueless as a coach making any kind of adjustments. She thinks it isn't about winning and loosing, she better grow up fast. Every announcer and commentator does everything but spell it out, the Lady Vols are not prepared and that is on the coach. A Pat clone, you better think again. Every streak that Pat built has been snapped. We are headed toward the bottom of the SEC and we are halfway there. Unacceptable 'FIRE HER TODAY!'

 

[Ace]

Comparing CHW to CRB and the two losses to each other is crazy. CRB inherited a dumpster fire left by CCM and Dirty Donnie Tyndall. Holly inherited the premier program in WCBB.

CRB team over achieved and was not even suppose to be in the tourney. CHW teams have under achieved on a regular basis. Barnes does more with less, Holly does less with more.

 

[BreatheUT]

Good for Michelle. Nice words. She's wrong.

The players get scholarships to just play basketball. Yes, we all want them to be successful students and quality people, but their primary purpose for UT is to play basketball. The coaches get paid extremely well for the players to perform at a high level. If the players are talented and highly recruited, which they are, they should be giving their best efforts, which they are for how they have been developed and trained. Yet, the level of play is dropping from the program's traditionally high levels. There have been more "firsts" of the wrong type in Holly's tenure than at any time in the multiple decades that Pat coached.

Sorry in advance to who this offends as that is not my intention - Pat's reach into the LV program from the grave should not continue. It is currently being used by people in charge and with access to the program for their own purposes and not for the best interests of the program and the players. Her reach should extend for the great principles she instilled in the players as well as her own competitive achievement. But it stops there. Having known Pat personally, she has told the world (pre-dementia) that the program comes before anybody else including herself. If UT cannot or will not do the right thing and provide a quality, elite type coaching staff for these elite players who can develop them into the best they can be as individuals and teammates, then de-emphasize the program and reduce the drain on financial resources it has become. The slow train down to mediocrity is killing the program, increasingly draining UTAD resources, and Holly is embarrassing herself in the process. She was a highly valued recruiter and assistant for Pat. That was her peak as a coach and it is painfully obvious.

I realize they will give her the last year on her contract. They should not, but they will.

Well articulated!

 

[TNnative]

With all due respect, if what Ms. Marciniak was true we're wasting a lot of money on coaches salaries. The players could just show up and play.

If butt chewings left literal scars, Michelle wouldn't have a square inch on her backside that didn't show Pat's bite pattern. She is making statements based on past loyalty, not on what is best for the program.

 

[VolBall09]

Or maybe the players aren't responding to Holly because they know she's over her head and is clueless. The great coaches don't deflect after losses they take full responsibility. Holly is the Butch Jones of Women's basketball.

Or maybe the players aren't responding to Holly because of all the poison spewed about their coach on these boards.

If you think for one second they don't hear about the nonsense said on here you're fooling yourself. The fan base throwing Holly under the bus every time the PLAYERS under perform undermines her credibility with the players.

Those kids need to take some responsibility too.

If you don't knock down 10 footers, shoot 22% from 3 and 33% from the floor you can't set your press and winning becomes much more difficult.

Holly can't put the ball in the hole for them, sure there are some fundamentals that need work, but that's not just on her. They all need to step up.

 

[T-TownVol]

Or maybe the players aren't responding to Holly because of all the poison spewed about their coach on these boards.

If you think for one second they don't hear about the nonsense said on here you're fooling yourself. The fan base throwing Holly under the bus every time the PLAYERS under perform undermines her credibility with the players.

Those kids need to take some responsibility too.

If you don't knock down 10 footers, shoot 22% from 3 and 33% from the floor you can't set your press and winning becomes much more difficult.

Holly can't put the ball in the hole for them, sure there are some fundamentals that need work, but that's not just on her. They all need to step up.

:cray:

 

[gule]

Barnes had his team of nobodies one lucky bounce away from a win and a sweet 16 berth, Holly not so much,

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Or maybe the players aren't responding to Holly because of all the poison spewed about their coach on these boards.

If you think for one second they don't hear about the nonsense said on here you're fooling yourself. The fan base throwing Holly under the bus every time the PLAYERS under perform undermines her credibility with the players.

Those kids need to take some responsibility too.

If you don't knock down 10 footers, shoot 22% from 3 and 33% from the floor you can't set your press and winning becomes much more difficult.

Holly can't put the ball in the hole for them, sure there are some fundamentals that need work, but that's not just on her. They all need to step up.

Yes, its the fan's fault. How can I forget

 

[Bigorangefaninga]

Or maybe the players aren't responding to Holly because of all the poison spewed about their coach on these boards.

If you think for one second they don't hear about the nonsense said on here you're fooling yourself. The fan base throwing Holly under the bus every time the PLAYERS under perform undermines her credibility with the players.

Those kids need to take some responsibility too.

If you don't knock down 10 footers, shoot 22% from 3 and 33% from the floor you can't set your press and winning becomes much more difficult.

Holly can't put the ball in the hole for them, sure there are some fundamentals that need work, but that's not just on her. They all need to step up.

How much have you played of sports? Because if these things were being said about any coach I EVER played for you better freaking believe I would lay it all out on the line, if I wasn't already! So you have two problems with what you said, First: if they arent playing 100% maybe you need to quit recruiting players because they have 5star beside their name and start recruiting players that can play or Second: You have players that have given up on you as a coach because even they can see you cannot coach.

So which is it with this team Volball? Do they not play for their coach, or were they all so highly overrated that they just arent good enough to beat teams with much lower recruits? That team yesterday came to UT's house and pants the Lady Vols on National TV, with their highest rated recruit ever being about the 5th or 6th highest rated recruit if they were on the UT roster(heck Destiny Slocum isnt even playing for them)! Guess we can just keep sitting back going, Holly has a monster recruiting class coming in, and after about 15-20 games we see them go from gangbusters to TO machines or missing in action after their months of "coaching" from this coaching staff! That Oregon State team has 4 ranked in top 50 recruits, with the highest Slocum not playing since she transferred in, so 3 girls ranked 24, 26 and 40th beat a team of 1, 6, 12, 2, 7 over all recruits and we have 3-4 more that were ranked in the top 50 of the recruits. So either we put to much emphasis on recruiting top talent that is overrated or we have top talent not being coached. So which is it?

 

[Volfan2012]

Barnes had his team of nobodies one lucky bounce away from a win and a sweet 16 berth, Holly not so much,

Barnes takes three star players and turns them into better players every season they are here.
Holly takes five star players and in half a season turns them into different players totally.
Mercedes got bigger and stronger and better as an offensive player. She still can't play defense.
Nared shot 35 percent when she got here still 35 percent as a senior. Reynolds looked promising as a freshman her best season got worse every season after that. Graves great as a freshman never got better that was her best season.
I am scared this may be Davis best season we'll see.
Westbrook and Hayes have to get better because second half of the season was a lot worse for them that the first half.

 

[VolsFan-TX]

Okay. So according to Michelle's chastisement of us fans, we really don't need a coach.

We only need someone to recruit, and then send these clueless players out there to make things happen.

Sorry, Michelle. You were a great player, but your comments are so off the wall, they are almost laughable. Pat Summitt never sent players onto the floor without being prepared.

And Pat never stood over on the sideline with her arms folded; watching her players throw careless passes; throw the ball up in the air hoping for a miracle instead of shooting it; and anyone not playing defense very quickly found their place on the sideline.

Good try, Michelle, but your argument is too ridiculous to be taken seriously.

Holly is in over her head, and our great program is becoming a laughing stock.

It is time to get a real coach who knows how to coach; how to motivate; how to teach; and how to win.[/QUOTE/]

CHW has stated, "I don't know" several times in interviews when asked how to fix the team's problems. Pat never did that. If Pat didn't know, then she would go find out. How is it that we have as many McD All-Americans as anyone in the country, but often get outplayed by teams with lesser talent? Might it just be the coaching?

 

[VolsFan-TX]

Or maybe the players aren't responding to Holly because of all the poison spewed about their coach on these boards.

If you think for one second they don't hear about the nonsense said on here you're fooling yourself. The fan base throwing Holly under the bus every time the PLAYERS under perform undermines her credibility with the players.

Those kids need to take some responsibility too.

If you don't knock down 10 footers, shoot 22% from 3 and 33% from the floor you can't set your press and winning becomes much more difficult.

Holly can't put the ball in the hole for them, sure there are some fundamentals that need work, but that's not just on her. They all need to step up.

If the players were concerned about what is said about CHW, then they would rally around her and play harder. If our players are so weak minded that they are bothered by some crap on social media, then we need to recruit stronger-willed athletes.

 

[VolsFan-TX]

During one of the Lady Vols' game this season, the announcer (Gail G, I think) was talking about how hard Kara L worked while at TN and how she would sneak into the gym when it was closed to practice by herself. The announcer then stated something that CHW said about some of her players over the last few years not lifting or working out. Gail G went off on the players for their lack of work ethic and also blamed the coach for allowing those players to play.

If what Gail G stated during the game was true, then CHW should be fired. You cannot allow players to determine whether they will practice or lift. The coach does that. If the players do not respond, then they get benched or lose their scholarship. It should not matter who the player(s) is. No player is above the team. There are a number of examples where team chemistry was destroyed by giving special treatment to selected players.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

YES YES YES all of Hollys teams have needed several times the World Famous Pat Summitt Plastic Trash Can Practices.............Michelle probably took part in some of them!
ONE constant in everything Holly has put on the floor....teams are not in shape!

Well, several of the players play nearly 40 minutes. They are up tempo and they run a high energy press. Just don't see you're not in shape assessment being true for those usually on the floor. Maybe those that don't play much could get in better shape.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

During one of the Lady Vols' game this season, the announcer (Gail G, I think) was talking about how hard Kara L worked while at TN and how she would sneak into the gym when it was closed to practice by herself. The announcer then stated something that CHW said about some of her players over the last few years not lifting or working out. Gail G went off on the players for their lack of work ethic and also blamed the coach for allowing those players to play.

If what Gail G stated during the game was true, then CHW should be fired. You cannot allow players to determine whether they will practice or lift. The coach does that. If the players do not respond, then they get benched or lose their scholarship. It should not matter who the player(s) is. No player is above the team. There are a number of examples where team chemistry was destroyed by giving special treatment to selected players.

Is this the same Gail G that got FIRED by Texas?

 

[1CHATTVOL]

The two "likes" must be from FP and 376.....

The two most positive folks on here. Great! Hope so.