'20 MI OL Justin Rogers (Kroger Field, folks)

BigOrangeTrain

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
37,858
Likes
27,485
I don’t care if he did exploit the rules of that class. The point still stands - a coach with a losing record signed the 7th ranked class in the country. At this point, I’d be thrilled with a top 10 class, so I’m not even setting the bar quite so high as to get 5th to 7th, which really should be the expectation with the resources sunk into recruiting staff and facilities.
You dont care because you want to ignore facts and logic. The days of TN having the best facilities and being able to recruit tself are gone. Butch didnt have to follow 4-8. So no a top 5-7th class shouldnt be expected after winning 9 games in 2 years. If you truly believe it should be then you are delusional. The only way we get to 7th is with 10+ wins. So it seems you are already prepping the coaching staff up for failure.

Like its been said, winning trumps anything else. Just use Clemson or LSU as examples. Is our recruiting budget larger? Facilities better? Who. Wins more games? And by extension, who has higher recruiting classes?
 

SSVol

Opinionated Old Guy
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
3,043
Likes
5,361
Well, then no starting conditions between two coaches will ever be the same. Butch and Pruitt have had comparable enough starts that you can have a conversation about the similarities - coming in as, like, the fifth choice after an embarrassing search, a roster lacking talent, identical first year records. It’s not like we’re comparing and contrasting the starts Fulmer and Majors had.
The subject was recruiting. Butch had it easier. The good news is that I'm convinced that this staff will match Butch's results with less talent, and once they do, recruiting will get easier. Patience.
 

McGeesPub

The little lights are not twinkling, Clark.
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
4,015
Likes
3,082
You dont care because you want to ignore facts and logic. The days of TN having the best facilities and being able to recruit tself are gone. Butch didnt have to follow 4-8. So no a top 5-7th class shouldnt be expected after winning 9 games in 2 years. If you truly believe it should be then you are delusional. The only way we get to 7th is with 10+ wins. So it seems you are already prepping the coaching staff up for failure.

Like its been said, winning trumps anything else. Just use Clemson or LSU as examples. Is our recruiting budget larger? Facilities better? Who. Wins more games? And by extension, who has higher recruiting classes?
Butch had to follow 5-7. If you think there is that big of a difference between 5-7 and 4-8, I’m not going to bother anymore because that means you are intent on making absurd statements to prove your point.

Tennessee has some of the best facilities in the country. While it is difficult to argue that any statement with “best” in it is a fact, this is a universally agreed upon view. I don’t think facilities get worse with losing seasons.

My only point is that Butch was able to get to seventh coming off a disaster of a coach. I’ve said it time and again: I hope this coaching staff is the one. But, I’m purely in “show me” mode. The 2019 class was fine, with the way it finished up I don’t have anything bad to say about it. But I firmly believe that should be the floor for recruiting classes with the recruiting chops on the staff and facilities on campus. Sue me.
 

chargervol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
11,786
Likes
24,587
We’ve been in that boat for awhile though, and have had highly ranked classes. That challenge is nothing new.
We'll just agree to disagree. The longer it goes, the harder it is to overcome.
They have to "read about us" now. I couldn't change my opinion if I wanted to. Time matters.
 

SSVol

Opinionated Old Guy
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
3,043
Likes
5,361
We'll just agree to disagree. The longer it goes, the harder it is to overcome.
They have to "read about us" now. I couldn't change my opinion if I wanted to. Time matters.
More cumulative damage and Butch could point to relative success as head coach at 2 prior stops. It really isn't the same.

Regardless, a few bright spots in that first class, but a lot of fools gold too.
 

McGeesPub

The little lights are not twinkling, Clark.
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
4,015
Likes
3,082
The subject was recruiting. Butch had it easier. The good news is that I'm convinced that this staff will match Butch's results with less talent, and once they do, recruiting will get easier. Patience.
Fortunately for everyone involved, my patience means next to nothing. Events will play out as they will, and the actual important parties will make the decisions. I hope that decision is an easy one to give him an extension because of his success.
 

chargervol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
11,786
Likes
24,587
They hate to hear the truth.
Oh please, please enlighten us.
If it's not us losing games, being irrelevant for too long and zero draft picks, like the rest of us suggest, what is "the truth"?

They forgot how to recruit since last year?
Or maybe all the stories of Pruitt being a relentless worker are lies and he's just at his desk playing games on mobile perhaps?
Turns out all of these great recruiters actually suck and just had everyone fooled?
Come on man, share with us this truth. We want to know.
 

cHiZzLeVOL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
5,088
Likes
5,458
Good lord man read before you quote me. The individual was talking about the player from Coastal Carolina being refused a Waiver to play even though his mom is in poor condition and about how he was going to fight it. Stating that others have been given waivers just because of not getting playing time.

(Why in this forum I do not know)
 

jakez4ut

ready for football.
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
45,797
Likes
30,109
They hate to hear the truth.
lol....it's a lazy take.

basically, what i get from most of these posts about being upset about hte recruiting boils down to this:

"they suck until they don't".

and we really don't even care who the "they" is anymore. if they're at UT, they suck....until proven otherwise, but whtever measure one deems important today lol.

this fan base, rightfully so mind you, has been beaten down so bad, that we don't even care who's over there anymore. they just suck, and they will suck until. don't care about why. don't care about context.

just go win, make me happy, and if you don't, you suck. need to fire you, and bring in the next guy that'll suck, and i'll do the same thing with them....until one day we finally get it right and we INSTANTLY become great.

L o freaking L.

we ain't making grits people.

Oh please, please enlighten us.
If it's not us losing games, being irrelevant for too long and zero draft picks, like the rest of us suggest, what is "the truth"?

They forgot how to recruit since last year?
Or maybe all the stories of Pruitt being a relentless worker are lies and he's just at his desk playing games on mobile perhaps?
Turns out all of these great recruiters actually suck and just had everyone fooled?
Come on man, share with us this truth. We want to know.
makes too much sense. and requires too much thought for some. much easier to say "they suck".
 

McGeesPub

The little lights are not twinkling, Clark.
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
4,015
Likes
3,082
lol....it's a lazy take.

basically, what i get from most of these posts about being upset about hte recruiting boils down to this:

"they suck until they don't".

and we really don't even care who the "they" is anymore. if they're at UT, they suck....until proven otherwise, but whtever measure one deems important today lol.

this fan base, rightfully so mind you, has been beaten down so bad, that we don't even care who's over there anymore. they just suck, and they will suck until. don't care about why. don't care about context.

just go win, make me happy, and if you don't, you suck. need to fire you, and bring in the next guy that'll suck, and i'll do the same thing with them....until one day we finally get it right and we INSTANTLY become great.

L o freaking L.

we ain't making grits people.


makes too much sense. and requires too much thought for some. much easier to say "they suck".
To be fair, yours is a bit of a lazy take as well. Big difference between “show me” and “they suck until they don’t.” The thing with a lot of folks is that they think we have the coach that is best for the program until the moment that we have the worst coach in program history. There is a lot of room for nuance in there.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve got an open mind. I just see some data points that are similar to this point in Butch’s regime, and full disclosure, I was fully on board with Butch at this point in his tenure. It’s still early enough in both the Pruitt era and the Recruiting season where the trajectory hasn’t reached, oh, I don’t know, terminal velocity(?) either way, so no, I don’t think Pruitt sucks, I don’t think he should be fired, I don’t think he is on the hot seat. I just can’t manufacture my own absolute buy in yet just because he’s the newest occupant of the chair. And yes, it probably does have a lot to do with how Butch’s tenure went.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
16
Likes
28
To be fair, yours is a bit of a lazy take as well. Big difference between “show me” and “they suck until they don’t.” The thing with a lot of folks is that they think we have the coach that is best for the program until the moment that we have the worst coach in program history. There is a lot of room for nuance in there.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve got an open mind. I just see some data points that are similar to this point in Butch’s regime, and full disclosure, I was fully on board with Butch at this point in his tenure. It’s still early enough in both the Pruitt era and the Recruiting season where the trajectory hasn’t reached, oh, I don’t know, terminal velocity(?) either way, so no, I don’t think Pruitt sucks, I don’t think he should be fired, I don’t think he is on the hot seat. I just can’t manufacture my own absolute buy in yet just because he’s the newest occupant of the chair. And yes, it probably does have a lot to do with how Butch’s tenure went.

What are those "data points"?
 

jakez4ut

ready for football.
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
45,797
Likes
30,109
To be fair, yours is a bit of a lazy take as well. Big difference between “show me” and “they suck until they don’t.” The thing with a lot of folks is that they think we have the coach that is best for the program until the moment that we have the worst coach in program history. There is a lot of room for nuance in there.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve got an open mind. I just see some data points that are similar to this point in Butch’s regime, and full disclosure, I was fully on board with Butch at this point in his tenure. It’s still early enough in both the Pruitt era and the Recruiting season where the trajectory hasn’t reached, oh, I don’t know, terminal velocity(?) either way, so no, I don’t think Pruitt sucks, I don’t think he should be fired, I don’t think he is on the hot seat. I just can’t manufacture my own absolute buy in yet just because he’s the newest occupant of the chair. And yes, it probably does have a lot to do with how Butch’s tenure went.
that's probably the fairest take i've seen from you, and i don't necessarily disagree with any of it.

two things i'd say...yeah, it's very early. like super early...so i don't see how anyone (not saying you) could come close to drawing conclusions at this point.

i tried to be fair with Butch, but always had doubts....like there was always someting "good" to point out, but it was immeidately countered, correctly in most cases, with something not so good. ultimately, we know what happened.

data points aside, there's two things about pruitt i point to that i think make a bit of a difference:
1. the staff. it's top notch. really it is. i think we should be excited about that. from the S&C, the analysts, to the on field.....it's as good a staff as we've had in a while. biggest hope is that htey can stay together for just a few years to see what they can turn this in to. we do need some consistency on the staff.....
2. the type of player being brought in. even the guys that aren't rated as high as we may want, they pretty much all "look the part" from a physical standpoint. with few excepitons, even as highly rated as Butch's classes were, i didn't see the same type of players we saw at our rivals, especiall on the line of scrimmage.....that got exasperated with the lack of S&C and injury attrition.

that we're not getting top 5 classes, just makes the timeline on the rebuild a little longer cause you're having to count on development...and that's just going to take some time....how much, just don't know....it'll be different for each player. now throw in a top 5 class this year or next, and that could speed things up.....no way to know that right now either.

as for things that could become problems for Pruitt if things don't go well.....well, he's made some choices that haven't made fans real happy as far as fan days, caravans etc....and he's not the warmest personality, so if there's people out there that 'don't like him' as a result, i can see why. and he does have a great staff. a great recruiting staff. a great teaching staff. he has all the resources he needs. he has hte support he needs. he has everything he would need to succeed.......so at some point, there won't be any excuses....(we're not there yet though lol...)....but 3, 4, 5 years in....we should be pushing GA for a trip to ATL. beating the bottom of the schedule regularly. competing and beating FL, GA or Bama at some point....sooner than later.

but i'm of the mind that get me to year 4 and 5....get full cycles in here....get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th year of development.....and let's see what we have.

i don't see that we really have much of a choice in that right now. but that's just me.
 
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
773
Likes
1,832
We have number one recruiting budget in all the land. Some of best facilities. Great tradition. Some ace recruiters. Yes he needs to win. But there's no excuses.
I agree, there's simply no excuse for a 5-7 team to not have at least seven 5* recruits committed right now. WTF is going on in Knoxville?
 

jakez4ut

ready for football.
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
45,797
Likes
30,109
To be fair, yours is a bit of a lazy take as well. Big difference between “show me” and “they suck until they don’t.” The thing with a lot of folks is that they think we have the coach that is best for the program until the moment that we have the worst coach in program history. There is a lot of room for nuance in there.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve got an open mind. I just see some data points that are similar to this point in Butch’s regime, and full disclosure, I was fully on board with Butch at this point in his tenure. It’s still early enough in both the Pruitt era and the Recruiting season where the trajectory hasn’t reached, oh, I don’t know, terminal velocity(?) either way, so no, I don’t think Pruitt sucks, I don’t think he should be fired, I don’t think he is on the hot seat. I just can’t manufacture my own absolute buy in yet just because he’s the newest occupant of the chair. And yes, it probably does have a lot to do with how Butch’s tenure went.
as for my take being lazy, i don't really see how that's possible....my take is simple.....but lazy? eh. my take is it is going to take more time than we want, and i've given many reasons why i think so, and how we got to this point for it to take more time, as has Charger and several others.....

whether the take is "show me" or "you suck until...", neither requires any thought, or any context.....it's basically we've sucked, so until somone shows me different, we suck. how is that not lazy? lol. it's also true by the way lol.
 

Riverratvolfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
46
Likes
58
Look I'm as antsy as everyone else about where we sit with committed recruits. Now that's me being selfish. Over the last few days I have come to this conclusion
I have to give this staff credit they are working hard. I don't think anyone can say they are not trying. I also feel like coach Pruitt and his staff genuinely care for the kids on this team and want them to be successful on and off the field. If they can put these young men in a position to be productive citizens and competitive football players that continue to try to improve i think he is a success. I would love to win every game. That's not going to happen, but if these young men can respond to adversity pull together and continue to give their all that would be beautiful to watch.
Could I find things to complain about? Sure. Would it help anything? Not really.
The welfare and success of the student athletes on and off the field should be the priority. Not if the program meets all of my standards.
 

VN Store



Sponsors
 

Top