McCain's Clarity vs. Obama's Nuance

#2
#2
Let me start off with this. I do not know this persons political leanings and I do not care. While reading this I knew where it was going to end and to me it almost seemed like she was trying to rationalize in her own mind her leaning to the Obama candidacy. That was just the impression I got.

On a side note I do feel McCain did better in that "debate", he was open to the audience, admitted his shortcomings. Obama seemed disconnected to the audience, I know they were not "his audience" but a candidate needs to be open to a wide range of voters and Christians are a pretty diverse and important part of the voting block. He just didn't come across as well as McCain IMHO.
 
#4
#4
TennNC said:
Sally Quinn: McCain's Clarity vs. Obama's Nuance - On Faith at washingtonpost.com

"I would rather live in McCain's world than Obama's. But I believe that we live in Obama's world."

Of all the post-Saddleback debate analysis, this hit home most for me.

What do you think?
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She based her criticism on Obama's vs. McCain's discussion style - the style in which they answered questions. Don't we get criticism for reducing Obama to his oratory skills?

It's a matter of perspective. Obama's speech is frequently composed of idealized conceptions that don't match the complex reality in which we live. His policy statements are frequently pollyannish.

They are both politicians and both condense complex situations into clear choices. It is a matter of perspective which fit your ear better.
 
#5
#5
KB5252 said:
Let me start off with this. I do not know this persons political leanings and I do not care. While reading this I knew where it was going to end and to me it almost seemed like she was trying to rationalize in her own mind her leaning to the Obama candidacy. That was just the impression I got.

On a side note I do feel McCain did better in that "debate", he was open to the audience, admitted his shortcomings. Obama seemed disconnected to the audience, I know they were not "his audience" but a candidate needs to be open to a wide range of voters and Christians are a pretty diverse and important part of the voting block. He just didn't come across as well as McCain IMHO.
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I thought Obama was too nuanced for this particular audience. I thought McCain won the debate, but only because he was willing to pander to the lowest level when it came to the issue of abortion. Maybe it's good campaign strategery, but it doesn't make him look like a maverick either.
 
#6
#6
notverycrucial said:
I thought Obama was too nuanced for this particular audience. I thought McCain won the debate, but only because he was willing to pander to the lowest level when it came to the issue of abortion. Maybe it's good campaign strategery, but it doesn't make him look like a maverick either.
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IMO that wasn't why he won at all. I am a realist, I believe most Christians are on this issue. While I don't like abortion I know the president will or cannot do much about it. It is what it is and I just choose not to support it. Would I like it to change? Yes. But if it does it will not be for some time. It just isn't an issue that will be settled this decade IMO.
 
#7
#7
Here's an angle - it appears Obama supporters can't admit that McCain handled the forum better in a legitimate way.

First, we see the Obama camp accusing McCain of cheating by listening in to Obama's answers, now we see an attempt to use a back-handed compliment to diminish McCain's performance.

How about that?
 
#8
#8
volinbham said:
Here's an angle - it appears Obama supporters can't admit that McCain handled the forum better in a legitimate way.

First, we see the Obama camp accusing McCain of cheating by listening in to Obama's answers, now we see an attempt to use a back-handed compliment to diminish McCain's performance.

How about that?
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I've said this all along when Obama supporters denied it. Obama will not do as well in debates as McCain on substance. The slogans only work to inspire your supporters. The more issue oriented undecideds need convincing. They want to know specifics.
 
#9
#9
I did not watch this thing this past weekend. But around work I find people that did watch it, talking about how well McCain did. He may mop the floor with Obama in the 3 debates.
 
#10
#10
volinbham said:
Here's an angle - it appears Obama supporters can't admit that McCain handled the forum better in a legitimate way.

First, we see the Obama camp accusing McCain of cheating by listening in to Obama's answers, now we see an attempt to use a back-handed compliment to diminish McCain's performance.

How about that?
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I hope you're not talking about me -- because I'm not an Obama supporter. I just think McCain looks weak when he panders like this. He's not going to win this election by appealing to the "religious right" b/c they're never gonna vote for Obama anyway. He needs moderates and Obama is going to get them.
 
#11
#11
notverycrucial said:
I hope you're not talking about me -- because I'm not an Obama supporter. I just think McCain looks weak when he panders like this. He's not going to win this election by appealing to the "religious right" b/c they're never gonna vote for Obama anyway. He needs moderates and Obama is going to get them.
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I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the public response from the Obama camp and now this commentator.
 
#14
#14
volinbham said:
Here's an angle - it appears Obama supporters can't admit that McCain handled the forum better in a legitimate way.

First, we see the Obama camp accusing McCain of cheating by listening in to Obama's answers, now we see an attempt to use a back-handed compliment to diminish McCain's performance.

How about that?
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Who cares if he cheated? He didn't need to. The rightwingification of McCain is complete. He knows exactly what to say now. He is becoming more George W. Bush than George W. Bush. He certainly no longer is a maverick - that's the most disingenuous claim his campaign is making.
 
#17
#17
TennNC said:
Who cares if he cheated? He didn't need to. The rightwingification of McCain is complete. He knows exactly what to say now. He is becoming more George W. Bush than George W. Bush. He certainly no longer is a maverick - that's the most disingenuous claim his campaign is making.
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Do you think he cheated?

As if Obama doesn't know exactly what to say?

The point of the commentator's article is that Obama has a more nuanced world view and as a result that is a more "accurate" view of the world. Obama's view is not more nuance in general - neither is McCain's. Both are ideological on some issues and practical on others.

If it makes Obama supporters feel better about their choice to claim there guy is more "nuanced" so be it. It's simply not true.
 
#18
#18
TennNC said:
Sorry, I missed where Sally Quinn said that McCain cheated. Can you point it out to me?
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Calm down - reread what I posted. The Obama camp made this claim, then Quinn made her comments about nuance. I never said they both claimed cheating or nuance. I merely suggested an observation that McCain's performance is being reduced from multiple angles. It was simply a discussion point.
 
#19
#19
notverycrucial said:
Sally Quinn is a liberal hack.
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Sally Quinn grew up in a household whose parents were very close friends of Barry Goldwater. Sally Quinn was very critical of Bill Clinton during his impeachment trial. Sally Quinn felt the ire of the liberal blogosphere for comments about Barack Obama.
 
#20
#20
TennNC said:
Sorry, I missed where Sally Quinn said that McCain cheated. Can you point it out to me?
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Read his earlier posts and it will be clear. He never implied Quinn thinks he cheated. He thinks this is her trying to minimize McCain's perceived "win" in this debate.

Edit: Sorry it was already addressed.
 
#21
#21
volinbham said:
Do you think he cheated?

As if Obama doesn't know exactly what to say?

The point of the commentator's article is that Obama has a more nuanced world view and as a result that is a more "accurate" view of the world. Obama's view is not more nuance in general - neither is McCain's. Both are ideological on some issues and practical on others.

If it makes Obama supporters feel better about their choice to claim there guy is more "nuanced" so be it. It's simply not true.
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Of course they both play politics.

But in this instance (Saddleback), it was absolutely true. In the instance of energy policy, was absolutely true. But, you see, most people, like Quinn, want to curl up in the fetal position and get an easily digestible answer, when the reality is that an easily digestible answer is often times a lie.
 
#22
#22
TennNC said:
Well, apparently that's what drew the largest cheers from the evangelical audience. For many people, they simply will not vote for a pro-choice candidate.
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Actually, the biggest cheer of the night came when McCain said: "We need to drill here, and drill now!" All of a sudden, the audience was more pro-drilling than anti-abortion. It was weird.
 
#23
#23
volinbham said:
Calm down - reread what I posted. The Obama camp made this claim, then Quinn made her comments about nuance. I never said they both claimed cheating or nuance. I merely suggested an observation that McCain's performance is being reduced from multiple angles. It was simply a discussion point.
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I'm calm.

The McCain camp and Obama camp are fighting each other in the trenches. They succeed whenever one of their dirty tactics (McCain cheated, Obama has ties to terrorism, etc.) get out in the mainstream media.

Quinn, however, did nothing to reduce McCain's performance. He would agree with Quinn 100% if given the truth serum. McCain has made the decision to pander to the right, and that's exactly what he did, and he did it well. Obama actually didn't pander this time (he's done it before), and he "lost" the debate amongst the evangelical audience. I agree with Quinn that it'd be interesting to see this same type of debate in another forum.
 
#24
#24
TennNC said:
Sally Quinn grew up in a household whose parents were very close friends of Barry Goldwater. Sally Quinn was very critical of Bill Clinton during his impeachment trial. Sally Quinn felt the ire of the liberal blogosphere for comments about Barack Obama.
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Sally Quinn is just trying to suck up to someone she thinks is going to win. I don't care if she's not a bleeding heart liberal. She's a typical media sycophant.
 
#25
#25
notverycrucial said:
Actually, the biggest cheer of the night came when McCain said: "We need to drill here, and drill now!" All of a sudden, the audience was more pro-drilling than anti-abortion. It was weird.
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Yet another example of over-simplifying an issue to curry favor. He's smart. I don't blame him. It may just win him the election (not in California, though).
 
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