Maybe we need to face some facts.

[Knuckles]

Jones needed to go. Any respectable coach isn't going to have an issue with that.

Respectable coaches see:

One huge booster running the program.

One huge former QB having veto power over decisions.

An spineless AD who throws people under the bus when the wind changes, instead of saying, "You payed me to do this job, now let me do my job".

A fan base who ran off an presumably innocent man, after he was announced, based on nothing but hearsay based on more hearsay, a man who was never called to testify for any of those accusations, and whose character was never questioned during an investigation either criminally or civilly. This was a man who passed all vetting processes at Rutgers, Tampa Bay, and Ohio State, but somehow wasn't good enough for the UT Fan Base's Wikipedia-based investigation.

State legislators who did the same thing as the fans.

Most fans think that it's the "WE DEMAND EXCELLENCE!" stance that hangs in other coaches' craws. It's not that at all.

Most coaches are ego-driven and have a hard time with one boss, much less tens of thousands of bosses, who at any time, can dig up unfounded and unproven accusations to bludgeon them with.

Most coaches see the damage that UT has done to one man, a precedent that has been set that he will have to confront every time that he looks at another career opportunity. They want nothing to do with that.

Blame whoever you want. Rationalize it in whatever way you wish, but any coach who isn't already a blind partisan when it comes to UT, is saying "I don't want any part of that, unless the payoff is big enough that I'll never have to work again afterwards".

Look for an old coach who has nothing to lose, like Mack Brown, and let him repair things, then, retire him afterwards and go for greatness again.

Do it soon, because the SEC could really use a strong UT like the one of old.

(Sorry for being such a long timer lurker, whose first motivation to post was this rant)

 

[Hubbard]

And humility begins with understanding that your viewpoint isn't the only valid one out there...and might not even be the most valid.

Wisdom and judgment cause a person to weigh all the information available, then reach his or her own conclusion. If person A says person B did something, but person B denies, all those who weren't there must use their own best judgment. For me, and apparently for 8188, the evidence indicates Schiano probably did it.

But whether he did or not, the possibility that he did continues to follow him like a shadow. Even if the forgive-and-forget national media want it to be ignored.

It is like Schroedinger's damn cat inside the box. We will never, ever get to look inside that box ourselves; so, for us, the cat is both maybe-alive and maybe-dead. He exists in both quantum states at the same time. And Schiano is both maybe-guilty and maybe-not at the same time. That's enough to ensure he never goes to jail (innocent until proven guilty), but it's certainly not enough to win a mult-million $$ contract as the head coach of our beloved state university.

Back to the media wanting us to ignore those facts...

The rival coaches talking to a recruit's parents in their living room certainly aren't going to ignore it.

And the media won't ignore it, either, much as they say we should. Those very same media who today say we should've hired him will bring it up again and again in the years to come, as "human interest" plots, usually combined with "and don't forget that Title IX scandal."

So you come to your conclusions using what wisdom you have, and we'll come to ours using our own.

My conclusion is this: Schiano would have brought with him a lifelong burden of doubt. One our program can do without. Kiffin is an ongoing disease. And Petrino is no role model we want around our lads. Just because some of these three know the game of football doesn't make them any more appealing, not to me.

You seem to let unwarranted fear control your judgement. From that perspective, you define wisdom and integrity as avoiding fear.

You(rather than the plural of we) and I see the world from a different set of values.

I approach life seeking truth even if that means accepting that others may use baseless claims to doubt.

You should consider the responsibility to discern what is true. I suggest using something better than hearsay and fear as your guides.

I do appreciate your thoughtful and well written responses.

At this point, we must decide to disagree.

I wish you well.

 

[Leeleesteeth]

Good coaches are not concerned about fan criticism. That comes with the territory. Even in HS football in a cut throat state like Georgia you hear it all the time. When my kids were little they thought "you dumbass" was part of my name and we were winning championships. Good coaches DON'T want to deal with meddling administrators, boosters who think that giving money gives them decision rights, and wasting time having to defend their reputation from crap that some cowards put on the Internet. UT will survive this. The program is nowhere near DEAD, as some of you keep whining about. WHEN a coach is hired, IF he is allowed by the people that matter to build his program without interference, then UT will bounce back and be what it was before the end of Coach Fulmer's time. So as fans, voice your opinions, raise Cain, but at some point unite for the good of the program.

 

[m1al]

This isn't going to be received well. Most of us don't want to hear it, much less believe it. If we really take that long, hard look in the mirror, though, deep down we'll know it's the truth.

Tennessee is tarnished and we, the fans, are PART of the problem.

We demanded that a Hall of Fame coach with 100 more wins than losses, multiple SEC championship and a national title be fired. We ran a guy out of town who pulled us out of the gutter, led us to back to back 9 win seasons and three straight bowl wins. We rioted to block the hire of a coach who built a program from basically nothing, taking it to multiple bowl wins.

Of course Dave Doeren is the best we can get now. No big name coach wants to come near this job. Would you want to bring yourself and your family into that kind of environment? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not when there are other places offering similar jobs without that toxicity.

Tennessee is tarnished. It's toxic. The athletic department shares some blame. The boosters share some blame. We, the fans, have to accept our share of it too.

Blah blah blah, fans fault. Blah blah blah.... Fans fault..

Just stop...

 

[Roustabout]

This isn't going to be received well. Most of us don't want to hear it, much less believe it. If we really take that long, hard look in the mirror, though, deep down we'll know it's the truth.

Tennessee is tarnished and we, the fans, are PART of the problem.

We demanded that a Hall of Fame coach with 100 more wins than losses, multiple SEC championship and a national title be fired. We ran a guy out of town who pulled us out of the gutter, led us to back to back 9 win seasons and three straight bowl wins. We rioted to block the hire of a coach who built a program from basically nothing, taking it to multiple bowl wins.

Of course Dave Doeren is the best we can get now. No big name coach wants to come near this job. Would you want to bring yourself and your family into that kind of environment? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not when there are other places offering similar jobs without that toxicity.

Tennessee is tarnished. It's toxic. The athletic department shares some blame. The boosters share some blame. We, the fans, have to accept our share of it too.

I appreciate your comments and would like to offer a counterpoint.

First, it must be known that the fan reaction is just that, a reaction. How many times does the reaction become the story instead of the actions that led to the response. It's a very common problem. Currie was tone deaf to the frustration of the fan base as well as the current protest culture in our country. Why do you think Antifa and Black Lives Matter exist? They exist to use a mob mentality to get a point out. Does it work? Yes.

A few things are apparent; the Schiano hire has been in the back pocket for a LONG time and a real coaching search never happened. There is no doubt in my mind that this was cooked up amongst the good ole boy network, while at the same time, those pulling the strings, were completely out of touch with the potential fallout. My UT degree is in public relations and i see several ways the Schiano hire could have actually happened. One, hire a search firm and if Schiano makes that list then pursue him. If pursuing him, let it leak early, so that you can also get out propaganda to address the major concerns. Have one of the local talk shows interview Peyton and let them hear how great a coaches coach he is. Did any of that happen? No. So, all the fans were left with is a guy that was named as having witnessed Sandusky's crimes. Hearsay? So, what. This isn't a court of law. It is the absolute ugliest black eye on all of college athletics and you can't blame UT fans for wanting no part of that.

Next, Mike Gundy. Five years ago Mike Gundy parlayed UT interest into a raise, extension and a new practice facility. In fact, Gundy intentionally maneuvered to leak this and make it public.

JJ Mcklesky was interviewed this morning and told Swain as soon as his name came up, he will NEVER take the UT job. JJ's son plays at OkSU and he has a close relationship with Gundy. Did anyone in the UTAD evaluate what happened last time or consult with McKleskey who would have told them, "DONT GO ThERE!" NO! My first reaction (and it's on this forum) was that flirting with Gundy was a HUGE mistake.

This shows you the level of incompetence we are dealing with. An AD that is oblivious and has no PR strategy.

This is why you hire search firms.
It's been a relatively small segment of fans that have gone nuclear, but it doesn't take many. This is not a "UT" anomaly. All the conditions pointed to this happening.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

I don't trust anybody that blames fans

Which is typical of those who always blame others and live in self-denial.

Why is it everyone can get on here and crow and chest thump about stopping the Schiano hire but pretend to have no impact on 18-23 year old players and how they view their coach. If there is a bigger collection of dumbasses on the internet I'll have to say I've yet to see it.

 

[Hubbard]

Jones needed to go. Any respectable coach isn't going to have an issue with that.

Respectable coaches see:

One huge booster running the program.

One huge former QB having veto power over decisions.

An spineless AD who throws people under the bus when the wind changes, instead of saying, "You payed me to do this job, now let me do my job".

A fan base who ran off an presumably innocent man, after he was announced, based on nothing but hearsay based on more hearsay, a man who was never called to testify for any of those accusations, and whose character was never questioned during an investigation either criminally or civilly. This was a man who passed all vetting processes at Rutgers, Tampa Bay, and Ohio State, but somehow wasn't good enough for the UT Fan Base's Wikipedia-based investigation.

State legislators who did the same thing as the fans.

Most fans think that it's the "WE DEMAND EXCELLENCE!" stance that hangs in other coaches' craws. It's not that at all.

Most coaches are ego-driven and have a hard time with one boss, much less tens of thousands of bosses, who at any time, can dig up unfounded and unproven accusations to bludgeon them with.

Most coaches see the damage that UT has done to one man, a precedent that has been set that he will have to confront every time that he looks at another career opportunity. They want nothing to do with that.

Blame whoever you want. Rationalize it in whatever way you wish, but any coach who isn't already a blind partisan when it comes to UT, is saying "I don't want any part of that, unless the payoff is big enough that I'll never have to work again afterwards".

Look for an old coach who has nothing to lose, like Mack Brown, and let them repair things, then, retire him afterwards and go for greatness again.

Do it soon, because the SEC could really use a strong UT like the one of old.

(Sorry for being such a long timer lurker, whose first motivation to post was this rant)

I appreciate your post and the way in which you presented it.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

You seem to let unwarranted fear control your judgement. From that perspective, you define wisdom and integrity as avoiding fear.

You(rather than the plural of we) and I see the world from a different set of values.

I approach life seeking truth even if that means accepting that others may use baseless claims to doubt.

You should consider the responsibility to discern what is true. I suggest using something better than hearsay and fear as your guides.

I do appreciate your thoughtful and well written responses.

At this point, we must decide to disagree.

I wish you well.

Heh, calling me afraid.

I don't think you know the places I've been in my life, or the things that truly give me fear.

Yes, I've been afraid many times. As a soldier, it kind of comes with the job.

Concern over our football program's future direction is not even close to breathing on the back of any of those times I've felt fear.

But thanks for your concern.

 

[UTvols#1]

FACT::KIFFIN isn't coming here...Stop wasting your time. Find another candidate to back

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[Hubbard]

Heh, calling me afraid.

I don't think you know the places I've been in my life, or the things that truly give me fear.

Yes, I've been afraid many times. As a soldier, it kind of comes with the job.

Concern over our football program's future direction is not even close to breathing on the back of any of those times I've felt fear.

But thanks for your concern.

I appreciate your service even without the dramatics.

Again, I wish you well.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

You're fooling yourself if you don't think college coaches faces the same scrutiny and criticism at any big time football school.

Some FSU fans are calling for Fisher to be fired after an 83-23 record and a national title on the heels of one bad season as an example.

Sumlin put up better numbers than Jones and he is looking for a job.

Doeren is having to fight to get his contract extended at NC ST.

If you don't think the worst record in school history and a .500 record against Vanderbilt isn't reason enough to have shown Jones the door, then you're the one who should be looking in the mirror.

Firing an underperforming coach is the easy part. Replacing him with someone better....not so easy. Especially with a toxic part of the fanbase with such good internet access.

 

[VolFan..But]

Dumb post. Butch wasn't taking us any where. Fulmer was going going down. We expect to win and there is nothing wrong with that. Sounds like you can't handle the expectations here either.

Where are you now?? LOL??? I have explained the situation. Want to learn, go read. You are in this mess because they fired Philip. That is the bottom line. You should have enjoyed the greatest 16 years in school history. Now we are back to what we where before him.

 

[GoVols64]

Jones needed to go. Any respectable coach isn't going to have an issue with that.

Respectable coaches see:

One huge booster running the program.

One huge former QB having veto power over decisions.

An spineless AD who throws people under the bus when the wind changes, instead of saying, "You payed me to do this job, now let me do my job".

A fan base who ran off an presumably innocent man, after he was announced, based on nothing but hearsay based on more hearsay, a man who was never called to testify for any of those accusations, and whose character was never questioned during an investigation either criminally or civilly. This was a man who passed all vetting processes at Rutgers, Tampa Bay, and Ohio State, but somehow wasn't good enough for the UT Fan Base's Wikipedia-based investigation.

State legislators who did the same thing as the fans.

Most fans think that it's the "WE DEMAND EXCELLENCE!" stance that hangs in other coaches' craws. It's not that at all.

Most coaches are ego-driven and have a hard time with one boss, much less tens of thousands of bosses, who at any time, can dig up unfounded and unproven accusations to bludgeon them with.

Most coaches see the damage that UT has done to one man, a precedent that has been set that he will have to confront every time that he looks at another career opportunity. They want nothing to do with that.

Blame whoever you want. Rationalize it in whatever way you wish, but any coach who isn't already a blind partisan when it comes to UT, is saying "I don't want any part of that, unless the payoff is big enough that I'll never have to work again afterwards".

Look for an old coach who has nothing to lose, like Mack Brown, and let him repair things, then, retire him afterwards and go for greatness again.

Do it soon, because the SEC could really use a strong UT like the one of old.

(Sorry for being such a long timer lurker, whose first motivation to post was this rant)

This is a great post and glad you are out of the shadows!

 

[VFL97]

This isn't going to be received well. Most of us don't want to hear it, much less believe it. If we really take that long, hard look in the mirror, though, deep down we'll know it's the truth.

Tennessee is tarnished and we, the fans, are PART of the problem.

We demanded that a Hall of Fame coach with 100 more wins than losses, multiple SEC championship and a national title be fired. We ran a guy out of town who pulled us out of the gutter, led us to back to back 9 win seasons and three straight bowl wins. We rioted to block the hire of a coach who built a program from basically nothing, taking it to multiple bowl wins.

Of course Dave Doeren is the best we can get now. No big name coach wants to come near this job. Would you want to bring yourself and your family into that kind of environment? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not when there are other places offering similar jobs without that toxicity.

Tennessee is tarnished. It's toxic. The athletic department shares some blame. The boosters share some blame. We, the fans, have to accept our share of it too.

I believe you put some sincere thought into this, but I do not agree with you. What has tarnished UT is a single family's influence over our university irregardless of the long term damage it continues to do it. And frankly most of us are fed up with it. This is more about one head coach at this point. It is much bigger than that now. And I don't give a damn how the rest of world views us at this point. What's most important is unhinging these chains that are damaging this university. The fan base is not the problem. The fan base is the only thing between changing this and allowing the status quo to continue for perpetuity. No more.

 

[therealitytheory]

Throughout an extensive investigation, never once was Schiano considered an eyewitness nor a suspect of any wrong doing. Thus, dismissing any credibility of the third party hearsay.

However, ignoring all of that, you believe that a public outcry to tarnish a man is justified so that you can express frustration with a college administration.

Ironically, it takes a real lack of wisdom and morals to do such a thing.

Your angst over public outcries notwithstanding, Schiano was an embarrassingly bad choice for multiple reasons. And the fact that he was the FIRST choice will forever be it's own category of unexplained dumbassery.
To foist that guy on this fanbase...after 10 years of purgatory bordering on pure hell.

Ah well...good troll job if that's what this is.

 

[Hubbard]

Your angst over public outcries notwithstanding, Schiano was an embarrassingly bad choice for multiple reasons. And the fact that he was the FIRST choice will forever be it's own category of unexplained dumbassery.
To foist that guy on this fanbase...after 10 years of purgatory bordering on pure hell.

Ah well...good troll job if that's what this is.

If Schiano was the first choice, and that is purely speculative by others at this time, it is concerning in many aspects.

That stands alone.

 

[knox73]

This is a whole new ball game in hiring established coaches. Almost any school will fight to keep who they have rather than enter the mercenary market for a replacement which is a crapshoot. This is why Currie tried every way possible to rationalize keeping Butch and he waited until there was no hope of a .500 season.

Anyway it is reality. I would drop down another level and negotiate with Neal Brown from Troy with a heavily incentive laden contract. He likely would keep some of the existing staff - Gillespie and others for recruiting purposes. You have to give Purdue and Iowa State credit - they have protected their investments with high buyouts that - bigger programs cannot match. Iowa State made a brilliant hire as did Virginia Tech with Fuente.

Remember Vols have to pay Butch and his guys and likely Schiano for the hiring fiasco he went through. There are limits on how much they can justify for coaches like Brohm and Doeren.

Everyone would be wise if they care remotely about the program to back off and give a new coach a chance. I remember when Clemson was up in arms over Dabo being hired and LSU was not initially pleased with Les Miles. Just chill out and don't proclaim doom before you see what a new man can do - it is ridiculous otherwise.

 

[GoVols64]

I believe you put some sincere thought into this, but I do not agree with you. What has tarnished UT is a single family's influence over our university irregardless of the long term damage it continues to do it. And frankly most of us are fed up with it. This is more about one head coach at this point. It is much bigger than that now. And I don't give a damn how the rest of world views us at this point. What's most important is unhinging these chains that are damaging this university. The fan base is not the problem. The fan base is the only thing between changing this and allowing the status quo to continue for perpetuity. No more.

I don't believe OP is saying we are the entire problem but part of it and I would agree. It is't that we did not want Schiano it is how we presented that argument that has me concerned.

I truly believe that the same level of push back could have been achieved without the smear campaign. Coaches looking at UT have a lot of good reasons to avoid the job now and we are one of them (but not the ONLY one).

I do agree that we are utterly void of leadership and the AD and Booster level. If we focus our efforts there we will eventually, not in the near term I am afraid, find someone who does what is right and not as they are told.

 

[1972 Grad]

So if you were about to hire someone and you'd heard rumors he was a pedophile, you'd still hire him because they're just rumors right?

Yes, I 100% call protecting the integrity of our program wise. Dismissing hearsay on the other hand is grossly irresponsible

Who is the pedophile ? The job offer wasn't given to Sandusky.

 

[tallvolball98]

Dammit man....what erroneous info are you referring to? Quit being so coy and come out with more info even if you actually have some you don't have to name someone to help yourself become more credible.

Maybe it’s Brohm and they are waiting til after December 5

 

[1972 Grad]

So we should be alright with hiring someone who was accused of a terrible crime?

What crime? We didn't offer the job to Sandusky.

 

[Vol8188]

Who is the pedophile ? The job offer wasn't given to Sandusky.

It was a hypothetical. The point is you don't hire someone when there's terrible rumors going around about that person, because they may be true. I imagine rumors had swirled about Sandusky for years.

So the other guy saying we should just ignore hearsay is simply stupid

 

[1972 Grad]

Maybe it’s Brohm and they are waiting til after December 5

I mentioned that possibility to somebody yesterday. The word got out, and they had to walk it back to save a million bucks.

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

We were offered Kiffin with a staff of Tee Martin and Kevin Steele. Please don't go with the "No coach wants to come here" narrative. We're mad cause the administration is literally only interviewing the bottom of the barrel.

No coach wants to come here

 

[Kane Liffin]

This isn't going to be received well. Most of us don't want to hear it, much less believe it. If we really take that long, hard look in the mirror, though, deep down we'll know it's the truth.

Tennessee is tarnished and we, the fans, are PART of the problem.

We demanded that a Hall of Fame coach with 100 more wins than losses, multiple SEC championship and a national title be fired. We ran a guy out of town who pulled us out of the gutter, led us to back to back 9 win seasons and three straight bowl wins. We rioted to block the hire of a coach who built a program from basically nothing, taking it to multiple bowl wins.

Of course Dave Doeren is the best we can get now. No big name coach wants to come near this job. Would you want to bring yourself and your family into that kind of environment? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not when there are other places offering similar jobs without that toxicity.

Tennessee is tarnished. It's toxic. The athletic department shares some blame. The boosters share some blame. We, the fans, have to accept our share of it too.

you are a fool