Martin really isn't that bad

#27
#27
My point: it takes a little more then 2 years to become a great coach. We'll have a solid year this year, and Cuonzo will keep learning and thriving.
 
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#28
#28
Not sure what I watched last night, but even with a lot of new and young players, I expected to see a discipled, organized team ready to compete and I didn't see that. I think I saw some disorganized playground ball. Xavier on the other hand was organized and fairly efficient. Was it because they probably have more upper classmen or is the system they are coached under with an emphasis on the finer points of basketball versus our helter skelter playground style. I would assume coach was trying to give a lot of players some PT to see what he has, but I would assume the experimenting would be done during exhibition games. Cause if the object is to win 20 games and get to the NCAA tourney then no game is a throw away. I'm sure we will get better but it was frustrating to watch that abomination last night.
 
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#29
#29
iKrager said:
Because it took time for these great coaches to become great! I really don't think you understand this, at some point Coach K had to change his philosophy and figure out a different approach. At some point Jim Calhoun figured out a way to get his players to play or figured out something that he hadn't before!

This is the 3rd year of his coaching, he's improving little by little, if you want to be ignorant and ignore facts then so be it. There's always ups and downs of a coach, losing to Xavier was a down. Cuonzo is fixing his problems one step at a time. We're light years better than how we were his first year.
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Dang it, I knew we fired Dooley too soon.
 
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#30
#30
Fullfillmer said:
I actually think we will turn it around this year and have a good season. Mayman and Stokes will need to adjust to the new rules and adapt. I love our new point guard and think with time he will guide and direct this team. Macrae is a wildcard, is hot and cold at times and doesn't distribute the ball very well. Richardson, Hubbs, Moore are steady and good players imo - the rest .... look a little shaky.

Just as we shouldn't get overly excited with this loss - we shouldn't think Coach Martin had turned the corner if we make it to the dance this year.

I am extremely concerned about next years team - do we have a point guard or big men in this signing class?
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I don't think Stokes is capable of changing his game. He doesn't seem like a smart player and was in foul trouble all last year before the rule change.
 
#31
#31
volbeast33 said:
Dang it, I knew we fired Dooley too soon.
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Did Dooley actually improve year by year? I remember him going to a bowl game the first year and never making another...

I think we need to stop comparing every coach we ever have to Dooley...or at least keep it to football.
 
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#32
#32
Lankykong said:
Did Dooley actually improve year by year? I remember him going to a bowl game the first year and never making another...

I think we need to stop comparing every coach we ever have to Dooley...or at least keep it to football.
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He was learning, give him time.
 
#33
#33
iKrager said:
Since everyone thinks this season is over by losing one game on the road (stupid right?), I've decided to make this thread to show you Cuonzo really isn't that bad. Believe me or not, it's you who has to decide. (Please read the final comment before posting)

Point: This thread is comparing successful college basketball coaches to Cuonzo, we'll look specifically at W-Ls and their postseason success for their first 5 years as a head coach.


Cuonzo Martin @ Tennessee:
Year: Record Postseason
2008-09: 11-20 DNP
2009-10: 24-12 CIT Champions
2010-11: 26-9 NIT Second Round
Year: Record Postseason
2011-12: 19-15 NIT Second Round
2012-13: 20-13 NIT First Round

Overall record: 100-69 (.588)

Coach Krzyzewski @ Army and Duke
ARMY
Year: Record Postseason
1975-76: 11-14 DNP (Did Not Place)
1976-77: 20-8 DNP
1977-78: 19-9 NIT Second Round
1978-79: 14-11 DNP
1979-80: 9-17 DNP

Overall record: 73-59 (.553)

DUKE
Year: Record Postseason
1980-81: 17-13 NIT Quaterfinals
1981-82: 10-17 DNP
1982-83: 11-17 DNP
1983-84: 24-10 NCAA Second Round
1984-85: 23-8 NCAA Second Round

Overall record: 85-65 (.566)
10-year record: 158-124 (.560)

Jim Calhoun @ Northwestern and Connecticut
Northwestern
Year: Record Postseason
1972-73: 19-7 DNP
1973-74: 12-11 DNP
1974-75: 12-12 DNP
1975-76: 12-13 DNP
1976-77: 12-14 DNP

Overall record: 67-57 (.540)

Connecticut
Year: Record Postseason
1986-87: 9-19 DNP
1987-88: 20-14 NIT Champions
1988-89: 18-13 NIT Quarterfinals
1990-91: 31-6 NCAA Elite Eight
1991-92: 20-11 NCAA Sweet Sixteen

Overall record: 98-63 (.609)
10-year record: 165-120 (.579)

Tom Izzo @ Michigan State
Year: Record Postseason
1995-96: 16-16 NIT Second Round
1996-97: 17-12 NIT Second Round
1997-98: 22-8 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1998-99: 33-5 Final Four
1999-00: 32-7 NCAA Champions

Overall record: 120-48 (.714)

John Calipari @ UMass and Memphis
UMass
Year: Record Postseason
1988-89: 10-18 DNP
1989-90: 17-14 NIT First Round
1990-91: 20-13 NIT Semifinals
1991-92: 30-5 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1992-93: 24-7 NCAA Second Round

Overall record: 101-57 (.639)

Memphis
Year: Record Postseason
2000-01: 21-15 NIT Semifinals
2001-02: 27-9 NIT Champions
2002-03: 23-7 NCAA First Round
2003-04: 22-8 NCAA Second Round
2004-05: 22-16 NIT Semifinals

Overall record: 115-55 (.676)
10-year record: 216-112 (.658)


Are you seeing a pattern? Wow, that's weird these all time great basketball coaches weren't successful their first couple years of basketball? So if Coach K didn't do well his first 10 years, he obviously won't learn/coach X's and O's - see how that philosophy worked out? Some of these coaches had turrible post season success, but eventually became national champions. Look at all these coaches who developed into great coaches, it wasn't easy their first couple years, but look where they are now!!

Cuonzo his first year here overachieved, we've all heard the story: picked to place 7th in conference finished T-2nd overall. His second year here, he had the talent but losing your leading scorer will effect your team and too many bad losses held us back: finished 5th in conference.

This is Cuonzo's 3rd year here, he's done a decent job so far (.588 isn't bad). I loved Bruce Pearl, a great guy, a good coach, but sadly he is not our coach anymore (and he probably never will be). If you can't back Cuonzo for now, then don't bother posting here or even attending a game - why would you?


tl;dr - Cuonzo is our coach now, we all loved Bruce, but lets face it - unless Cuonzo doesn't make the tournament with avoiding injuries - Bruce isn't coming back. The first stop is Martin town either get on or get off. We have hell of a season to look forward to, we'll get all of our first game worries out the way when we crush our next couple opponents then on to Battle 4 Atlantis.

Enjoy a good season ahead of us and let's get pumped for some Tennessee Basketball!
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So what I gather is once CCM finishes his on the job training here he will move on to a better job and be quite successful.
 
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#34
#34
Sorry but Pearl > Martin, CM just can not motivate, did you hear his post game presser. He looked bored and out of it.
 
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#35
#35
GLDunlap said:
So what I gather is once CCM finishes his on the job training here he will move on to a better job and be quite successful.
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Not if you compare him to K or Calhoun. If you give him 5 years, he'll go to the NCAA and the rest will be history. Especially since those two went 3+ years without making the dance at their current schools.
 
#36
#36
This team ought to win 25 games at least. There should be no pats on the back for Martin for just making the tournament.
 
#37
#37
these are the absolute worst threads in the world.


you showed me those few successful coaches that started off slow.


now show me the NUMEROUS coaches that started off slow and never got anywhere.

i'll be waiting.

thanks.
 
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#38
#38
plus there is no evidence Cuonzo is improving.

offense still sucks.


defense is below average, especially in the post.

slow starts every year

losing key winnable games ex. georgia

etc etc
 
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#39
#39
I think this team is going to be very successful. Unfortunately it will buy Martin 2 more years and he will be sitting there with 1 tourney appearance in 5 years.
 
#40
#40
whocaresgobobcats said:
these are the absolute worst threads in the world.


you showed me few those successful coaches that started off slow.


now show me the NUMEROUS coaches that started off slow and never got anywhere.

i'll be waiting.

thanks.
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They're 10x better than all these fire Cuonzo threads. At least OP posted facts and didn't sound like a moron.
 
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#42
#42
Last night, CCM's most talented team in his tenure at TN was totally unprepared to play their first game of the season. They played with very little intensity, urgency, or fire until the game was almost over. McRae nearly bailed them out, but it was too little too late.
I want the Vols to win every game. I want them to turn this around, but the lack of intensity for the first game is extremely disappointing.
 
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#45
#45
whobethis16 said:
Not if you compare him to K or Calhoun. If you give him 5 years, he'll go to the NCAA and the rest will be history. Especially since those two went 3+ years without making the dance at their current schools.
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So what you guys are saying is we should never have let Buzz go and in time we would have had a national championship by now?
 
#48
#48
I appreciate the time and effort you put in to the research, and i get what you are trying to say. But comparing Zo's first 5 years to 4 all time greats is silly. You could probably find 100 guys that had similar records and failed in the long run. He has done nothing in the first 2 years here to make us think he will be that caliber of a coach. Honestly last night looked like a guy coaching his very first game. Hopefully you are proven right and he becomes an all time great, but as of now I have serious doubts in his coaching ability. I can handle loses, and thought it would take a few years to get back to where we were. But performances like last night are inexcusable.
 
#49
#49
iKrager said:
Yes last night's game was bad, but after VolNation reacted, a thread like this is necessary. There's comments like "he can't coach" "fire cuonzo" "he will never learn _______" "he won't be more than mediocre" etc etc

Most people are dictating the season after one loss. If you don't get the point of this post, it probably isn't for you.
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He can't coach... Fire Cuonzo!!! This post definitely wasn't for me.....:whistling:
 
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