Marriage and Aristotle

#26
#26
So what's wrong w having sex with people other than the spouse inside the procreation window as long as you abort whatever is produced?
 
#27
#27
McDad said:
Seems strange that slaves were vital but not good for the city. Is Ari referring to 'good' as a judgement of character or as something beneficial?
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I have not found an argument that slaves are vital to the city in Aristotle. I think he thinks they are vital to Athens, but Aristotle is critiquing Athens in The Politics, as well as every other polis in Hellas.

Aristotle believes that what is unqualifiedly good is virtue and happiness, and that these two are inseparable. The virtuous man is happy; and the happy man must be virtuous. Then, there is a qualified sense of good, insofar as these things serve the virtuous and the happy.

A city is good if it promotes the virtue of the citizens.
 
#28
#28
golfballs said:
So what's wrong w having sex with people other than the spouse inside the procreation window as long as you abort whatever is produced?
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For the wife, because one would not be able to tell whose child it is. For the husband, because it is unequal with regard to the wife and, thus, Aristotle believes the wife will recognize that the situation is unequal and will be moved by her passion (Aristotle believes women are inherently more passionate and less reasonable than men) to have an affair, thus leading to the problem of being able to tell who the offspring belong to.
 
#29
#29
therealUT said:
I have not found an argument that slaves are vital to the city in Aristotle. I think he thinks they are vital to Athens, but Aristotle is critiquing Athens in The Politics, as well as every other pooolis in Hellas.

Aristotle believes that what is unqualifiedly good is virtue and happiness, and that these two are inseparable. The virtuous man is happy; and the happy man must be virtuous. Then, there is a qualified sense of good, insofar as these things serve the virtuous and the happy.

A city is good if it promotes the virtue of the citizens.
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I assumed slaves were vital because i thought they did most of the labor for work such as agriculture and infrastructure.
 
#30
#30
therealUT said:
For the wife, because one would not be able to tell whose child it is. For the husband, because it is unequal with regard to the wife and, thus, Aristotle believes the wife will recognize that the situation is unequal and will be moved by her passion (Aristotle believes women are inherently more passionate and less reasonable than men) to have an affair, thus leading to the problem of being able to tell who the offspring belong to.
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****ing *****es
 
#31
#31
McDad said:
I assumed slaves were vital because i thought they did most of the labor for work such as agriculture and infrastructure.
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They did most all of the household work in Athens. Farmers were not slaves in Athens, and they toiled all the time. Athens was a very cosmopolitan city for the time, and most of the construction was done by non-slave foreigners, artists, craftsmen, etc. Aristotle often refers to these individuals as vulgar, but they were not slaves; though, there was plenty of slavery in Athens.
 
#34
#34
therealUT said:
They did most all of the household work in Athens. Farmers were not slaves in Athens, and they toiled all the time. Athens was a very cosmopolitan city for the time, and most of the construction was done by non-slave foreigners, artists, craftsmen, etc. Aristotle often refers to these individuals as vulgar, but they were not slaves; though, there was plenty of slavery in Athens.
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I confused Athens with Rome.
 
#36
#36
McDad said:
Was Ari considered elitist back then?
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Aristotle is definitely an elitist (think, Aristocrat); however, Aristotle was not a citizen of Athens, and had no civic rights. However, Aristotle is an elitist in a specific sense: virtue. He truly thought virtue was the highest good and that he was the most virtuous (to the extent of believing that he was more god than man).
 
#37
#37
therealUT said:
Aristotle is definitely an elitist (think, Aristocrat); however, Aristotle was not a citizen of Athens, and had no civic rights. However, Aristotle is an elitist in a specific sense: virtue. He truly thought virtue was the highest good and that he was the most virtuous (to the extent of believing that he was more god than man).
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I learned something new. Thanks for that. Do you think people who gravitate towards philosophy gravitate towards elitism?
 
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#38
#38
McDad said:
I learned something new. Thanks for that. Do you think people who gravitate towards philosophy gravitate towards elitism?
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Not all. Every individual who gravitates toward philosophy will be doing so with certain first principles that said individual already accepts, and that initial position will largely determine where it is that philosophy takes them, even though reflection on presumed first principles might lead to changing said first principles, one argument might lead one individual to abandon their own first principles and adopt the premises of said argument, while an individual with other first principles might not have to abandon those principles based on the same argument, thus they would not move with the other individual.

I gravitate more toward an elitism than most. Some, who are very egalitarian, are as far from elitism as one can be. Some are in the middle.
 
#43
#43
This would make sense if you were looking to create some sort of utopia, or if you were looking to create something like Sparta, a dominating class of people.

Not sure how applicable it is in today's world.

I'd at least like to be able to enjoy the person I'm going to be with for awhile.
 
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#44
#44
zjcvols said:
This would make sense if you were looking to create some sort of utopia, or if you were looking to create something like Sparta, a dominating class of people.

Not sure how applicable it is in today's world.

I'd at least like to be able to enjoy the person I'm going to be with for awhile.
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Aristotle was indeed trying to create the "best city that anyone could pray for". Further, he thought that best city was necessary to the best human life; thus, it was imperative for all to work to build the best city (of course, he thought of himself as more of a god than human, so he could get the best life, regardless).
 
#45
#45
therealUT said:
Aristotle was indeed trying to create the "best city that anyone could pray for". Further, he thought that best city was necessary to the best human life; thus, it was imperative for all to work to build the best city (of course, he thought of himself as more of a god than human, so he could get the best life, regardless).
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I figured that was the case. In my political science class, we talked about Plato's utopia, but not Aristotle's. I was a little surprised, despite the similarities. Plato didn't have this type of child rearing.

I'm a sucker for love (as J. Cole would say) so I really don't get why people would do this now, although it does seem like a more efficient, cleaner way to do things.
 
#46
#46
zjcvols said:
I figured that was the case. In my political science class, we talked about Plato's utopia, but not Aristotle's. I was a little surprised, despite the similarities. Plato didn't have this type of child rearing.

I'm a sucker for love (as J. Cole would say) so I really don't get why people would do this now, although it does seem like a more efficient, cleaner way to do things.
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Plato has communal child rearing. Crazy.
 
#47
#47
therealUT said:
Plato has communal child rearing. Crazy.
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Well, if you look at his utopia, he basically wanted a bunch of robots, hence his idea of what our "soul" actually was, with the gold and what not (I don't remember the exact details).
 
#48
#48
Ah, the noble lie he called it.

Other citizens are told that they lived under the earth until their mother (the earth) sent them up to the surface with souls of gold, silver, or iron and bronze.

Depending on their souls, they have differing class roles to play in society.

The myth is therefore intended to make individuals more content with their place in society.
 
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