Marlon Walls just did an interview with Chris Vernon in Memphis...

#76
#76
ClearwaterVol said:
You just don't get contracts. That clause actually protects the school.
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That's a bit presumptuous. Even in divorce, if a spouse attains a higher paying job after settlement is established (Dallas) that amount is removed from money owed. Men much more savvy in contract negotiations than I, have pointed to this for years.:good!:
 
#77
#77
KBVol said:
We continue to pay Dooley, arguably the worst coach in program history, approximately $105k per MONTH through December 2016. Try to wrap your head around that one. Mind numbing. Another reason why Mike Hamilton is actually the true villain that laid the Tennessee football program in virtual ruins these last 7-8 years.
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I want a month payment of Dooleys money.. I have done more positive things for UT sitting in the stands than Dooley did as a coach..
 
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#78
#78
VoL The Impaler said:
I want a month payment of Dooleys money.. I have done more positive things for UT sitting in the stands than Dooley did as a coach..
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If you have not actively hurt Tennessee football, you've done more for the program than Dooley. That makes about 6.999999999 billion people more deserving of his monthly buyout salary.
 
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#79
#79
chargervol said:
That's a bit presumptuous. Even in divorce, if a spouse attains a higher paying job after settlement is established (Dallas) that amount is removed from money owed. Men much more savvy in contract negotiations than I, have pointed to this for years.:good!:
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You really think the Dallas wr coach makes more than the hc at Tennessee? And what you're talking about in a divorce settlement typically only applies to child support. The reason it applies to child support is the guidelines are established by law and are based upon the income of each parent and time sharing arrangements.

In a contractual setting the parties agree upon a reduced payment that allows one side to breach the contract at will. The clause allows the parties to have certainty in the event of termination. If the clause required an offset of any amounts earned by the former employee then the buyout demanded would be higher. The higher the buyout, the greater the likelihood that the former employee would sit on his ass and just collect checks.

By way of example, Jon Gruden had a clause similar to what you spoke of in his contract with Tampa. He received 8 million dollars spread over several years when Tampa fired him. Each payment was to be offset by Gruden's salary earned as an nfl head coach. Gruden turned down several opportunities so that he could keep that money and became the MNF guy.
 
#80
#80
salutethehill said:
This is hard to believe, unless it was tongue in cheek.
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The more stories that come out from the inside about Dooley, the easier it is for me to believe this. This is classic "pride comes before the fall" stuff. Dooley was arrogant upon getting the job, felt he had arrived and was big time before proving a thing. The way he treated the grounds crew at Neyland, all of it. Not surprising at all...
 
#81
#81
ClearwaterVol said:
You really think the Dallas wr coach makes more than the hc at Tennessee? And what you're talking about in a divorce settlement typically only applies to child support. The reason it applies to child support is the guidelines are established by law and are based upon the income of each parent and time sharing arrangements.

In a contractual setting the parties agree upon a reduced payment that allows one side to breach the contract at will. The clause allows the parties to have certainty in the event of termination. If the clause required an offset of any amounts earned by the former employee then the buyout demanded would be higher. The higher the buyout, the greater the likelihood that the former employee would sit on his ass and just collect checks.

By way of example, Jon Gruden had a clause similar to what you spoke of in his contract with Tampa. He received 8 million dollars spread over several years when Tampa fired him. Each payment was to be offset by Gruden's salary earned as an nfl head coach. Gruden turned down several opportunities so that he could keep that money and became the MNF guy.
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Okay I'm at work on my mobile and this was really long, so I'm going to be honest, I didn't read. I went as far as the first sentence where you claim that I said the wide receivers coach makes more money than the head coach at UT. I implied subtracting the difference. Just based off that one line, I probably won't read the rest. No offense intended but I just don't do those games.
 
#83
#83
chargervol said:
Okay I'm at work on my mobile and this was really long, so I'm going to be honest, I didn't read. I went as far as the first sentence where you claim that I said the wide receivers coach makes more money than the head coach at UT. I implied subtracting the difference. Just based off that one line, I probably won't read the rest. No offense intended but I just don't do those games.
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You did say that. My apologies for misreading your post and the related implication in my post. The rest of my post is non inflammatory
 
#86
#86
ClearwaterVol said:
You did say that. My apologies for misreading your post and the related implication in my post. The rest of my post is non inflammatory
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Ok, read the part about Gruden. I guess my point is a non proven, no name coach like DD should never be able to command the terms of someone like Gruden. I know the money is less but the terms should be more in favor of a school willing to give an unproven a chance.

Give the coach the opportunity to make the cash. Maybe handsome bonuses for bowls, top 25 ranking or certain # of wins. This would benefit both parties. If he is highly successful, It would be expensive for another school to hire him away. He would then also have the respect for a more traditional contract. However, if he proves to be negligent in his employment.... Let's say, refuses to do the basics like partner with coaches of highly recruited high schools :whistling:, The university isn't left with a dumpster fire of a buyout.

Any LA Tech level coach would jump at the chance to move up to an elite powerhouse. They should not be able to negotiate Superbowl champion deals. I hope this clears up my intentions with my previous post.
 
#87
#87
VFL-82-JP said:
So Marlon Walls coached high school ball in Memphis last year, and now is setting up a year-round training camp for high school D-Linemen in the Memphis area. To make them competitive arriving at college with the D-Linemen from everywhere else in the country.

Marlon Walls is a huge Butch fan.

There's a lot of talent in Memphis. It usually in the past has gone to the Mississippi schools, Memphis, even Arkansas before than the Vols.

But now Marlon Walls, a huge Butch fan, is making a splash on the high school scene in Memphis with his year-round camp.

Can only help with recruiting. Loving it.
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our VFL's are spreading themselves across recruiting hotbeds....and speaking, "The Word"...lol!

Love it!
 
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#89
#89
chargervol said:
Ok, read the part about Gruden. I guess my point is a non proven, no name coach like DD should never be able to command the terms of someone like Gruden. I know the money is less but the terms should be more in favor of a school willing to give an unproven a chance.

Give the coach the opportunity to make the cash. Maybe handsome bonuses for bowls, top 25 ranking or certain # of wins. This would benefit both parties. If he is highly successful, It would be expensive for another school to hire him away. He would then also have the respect for a more traditional contract. However, if he proves to be negligent in his employment.... Let's say, refuses to do the basics like partner with coaches of highly recruited high schools :whistling:, The university isn't left with a dumpster fire of a buyout.

Any LA Tech level coach would jump at the chance to move up to an elite powerhouse. They should not be able to negotiate Superbowl champion deals. I hope this clears up my intentions with my previous post.
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The deal you describe wouldn't be accepted. The kind of deal you describe tells the new coach, "I don't really think you're worthy of being our head coach and we're planning on giving you a very short leash to rebuild the program." As much as Tennessee gambled on Dooley, he gambled on being able to fix the program.
 
#90
#90
ClearwaterVol said:
The deal you describe wouldn't be accepted. The kind of deal you describe tells the new coach, "I don't really think you're worthy of being our head coach and we're planning on giving you a very short leash to rebuild the program." As much as Tennessee gambled on Dooley, he gambled on being able to fix the program.
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True but are you suggesting that a LA Tech coach wouldn't jump at the opportunity to prove himself? In my line of work, and every other line that I am aware of, you prove yourself, then get the receive the benefits. I will not debate you (as I am not an expert on contracts) as to how it may work... But I will debate you to the end if you support -Reward first, see results later. However, my kids would support that idea with regards to their allowance.
 
#91
#91
In many industries, the type of heavily incentivized contract will work and might even be the norm. It's not the norm for college football coaches. It would be especially unpalatable in a rebuilding situation.

The main issue I have with the Dooley contract was the length and extension. There was no reason to extend the contract and buyout amount after year one.
 
#92
#92
ClearwaterVol said:
In many industries, the type of heavily incentivized contract will work and might even be the norm. It's not the norm for college football coaches. It would be especially unpalatable in a rebuilding situation.

The main issue I have with the Dooley contract was the length and extension. There was no reason to extend the contract and buyout amount after year one.
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We definitely agree on that.:eek:k:

I believe what has become the norm in college fb contracts, while being the norm, is the exact opposite of how any industry should work. I do exclude proven coaches. If you are hiring Lee Iacocca to rebuild, your contract comforts him. If you are hiring Bob the head coach of 'Vandy and Middleton high are awesome' university, to rebuild anything, I find it of the upmost importance to maintain the pecking order during contract negotiations.
 
#94
#94
chargervol said:
We definitely agree on that.:eek:k:

I believe what has become the norm in college fb contracts, while being the norm, is the exact opposite of how any industry should work. I do exclude proven coaches. If you are hiring Lee Iacocca to rebuild, your contract comforts him. If you are hiring Bob the head coach of 'Vandy and Middleton high are awesome' university, to rebuild anything, I find it of the upmost importance to maintain the pecking order during contract negotiations.
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In theory, it sounds good, but if someone wanted me to take a risk on them, I would ask for them same in return. Either you want me or you don't. A half ass no risk deal in favor of the employer wouldn't give me confidence.
 
#95
#95
ptcarter said:
I think Lincoln would have missed that kick (both kicks) if it had only been him the holder and the snapper on the field. Mount Cody flamed out early in the NFL.

Good to get confirmation of what I've always thought. When we lined up for that kick, it was already doomed.
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Tim Priest said in the pre-game he looked hurt in warm-ups and he hoped it didn't come down to a field goal.

Our boys had them on the ropes. Why Kiffin essentially took a knee in that position to play for a lengthy field goal (when Tim Priest could see Lincoln was off) is beyond me. One more pass completion, and Bama were done.

Great OP by the way.
 
#97
#97
Is there any wonder that so many of us who have full time families and jobs spend so much damn time on here now?? There's hope again on the hill!
 
#98
#98
On hiring a coach:
-CBJ has a recruiting philosophy that gives extra weight to those that have played on a championship team. They were most likely leaders and knew how to win when the game was on the line.

I think that philosophy should play into coaching hires. Dooley 17-19 at La Tech. Kiffen 5-15 with Oakland.

Compare that to Saban
Toledo: 9-2
Michigan State: 34-24
LSU: 48-16

Before Alabama Hired him. 91-42

I could look up Urban Meyer, but it's similar.

I was never comfortable with the Dooley hire based on his record, but like all good VOL fans, you buy in until proven different.

I also did buy in with Kiffen. I watched the Al Davis Youtubes on his firing and dismissed Al Davis as a senile nutjob. Little did I know he was speaking the truth.

Point is: What someone has done in the past does matter. I don't think you take a coach that was mediocre at the last level and suddenly expect him to morph into the next Bear Bryant. Dooley was a disaster.
 
#99
#99
Not surprised the team loved Kiffin. As bad as his exit was, he did manage to get the fans fired up and clearly did the same with the team.

I still hate him though
 
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