Malinowski murder by ATF

#251
#251
McDad said:
Agreed. The warrant could be obtained illegitimately. But it is still a warrant which is the threshold to "force" entry into your home. Therefore, cause.
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A warrant can be obtained with reasonable suspicion. I don't think that we will ever see the truth in this and shame on the Arkansas AG for allowing this to happen. Unless he was selling guns across state lines, I believe that it is a state issue anyway. Different states have different rules on private sales.
 
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#252
#252
hog88 said:
I get your point but that is irrelevant to the way the warrant was handled.
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I can't agree any more strenuously the no knock was idiotic. That's after the fact.

The cause to enter, which is before the fact, is established.
 
#255
#255
82_VOL_83 said:
A warrant can be obtained with reasonable suspicion. I don't think that we will ever see the truth in this and shame on the Arkansas AG for allowing this to happen. Unless he was selling guns across state lines, I believe that it is a state issue anyway. Different states have different rules on private sales.
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But the warrant was obtained through the pre established process. That warrant gives them entry to your home.
 
#257
#257
McDad said:
But the warrant was obtained through the pre established process. That warrant gives them entry to your home.
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The warrant isn't the issue, it's how it was served. Warrant's give the officers rights, but their rights should be limited. This entire thing is a travesty of how the ABC bureaus are weaponized against the citizens.
 
#258
#258
Just look at the Randy Weever/Ruby Ridge raid. The ATF sent a CI to Weever asking for a sawed off shotgun, Weever refused so he went back and offered stupid money for it and Weever sold him the shotgun.
 
#261
#261
82_VOL_83 said:
I think the nuance here is can you shoot someone breaking into your vehicle just to keep them out of the vehicle and I think the answer is pretty clearly no. I don't think TN will allow you to shoot someone stealing your car if you aren't in it.
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Boy, if they did the richest hunting preserve in the US would be in Memphis.
 
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#262
#262
82_VOL_83 said:
The warrant isn't the issue, it's how it was served. Warrant's give the officers rights, but their rights should be limited. This entire thing is a travesty of how the ABC bureaus are weaponized against the citizens.
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The warrant isn't an issue for you. It is/was in issue for hog.

Your reply to me was related to a reply I gave hog about the warrant and the LEOs having cause to be there.
 
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#263
#263
It has nothing to do with whether the warrant was valid. They setup a situation where the likelihood of death was great. Its like having a spouse cut the brake line on the other spouse's auto before they plan on cruising on the cliff bound highway. It still either murder or attempted murder.

Its premeditated murder and which is why they were trying to cover it up before even happened. If those are the basic facts, this one isn't even close to being difficult.
 
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#265
#265
LSU-SIU said:
It has nothing to do with whether the warrant was valid. The setup a situation where the likelihood of death was great. Its like having a spouse cut the brake line on the other spouse's auto before they plan on cruising on the cliff bound highway.

Its premeditated murder and which is why they were trying to cover it up before even happened. If those are basic facts, this one is even close to be difficult.
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With premeditated, you're claiming they knew he would open fire on them first? Or, he didn't open fire and they are claiming he did to murder him?
 
#266
#266
hog88 said:
Just look at the Randy Weever/Ruby Ridge raid. The ATF sent a CI to Weever asking for a sawed off shotgun, Weever refused so he went back and offered stupid money for it and Weever sold him the shotgun.
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I am not familiar with those details.
 
#267
#267
McDad said:
With premeditated, you're claiming they knew he would open fire on them first? Or, he didn't open fire and they are claiming he did to murder him?
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They were going to kill him regardless of whether he fired first or not. That is why the ATF didn't wear body cameras and ordered the local LEO assisting to turn theirs off.
 
#268
#268
82_VOL_83 said:
Convenient.....
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A question I have that still hasn't quite be cleared up for me.

But was there a recent change in the law that made the ATF modify their enforcement of FFLs or was this something that they decided to reinterpret? If it is the former, then this a clear overreach and violation of Article I and II. The Legislative branch can't be overruled/usurped by the Executive branch.
 
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#269
#269
McDad said:
With premeditated, you're claiming they knew he would open fire on them first? Or, he didn't open fire and they are claiming he did to murder him?
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Its premeditated as they setup the guy to be killed. Its no different than putting a swinging axe above the door and waiting for family member to come walking through. Sure its possible the family member doesn't get killed, or goes into another door.... its still premeditation to kill someone or attempt to.

They clearly setup the situation for the guy to possibly be killed. If successful murder, if unsuccessful attempted murder.

This was attempted murder even if no shots were fired and the guy never died. They were trying to kill him.
 
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#273
#273
Rasputin_Vol said:
A question I have that still hasn't quit be cleared up for me.

But was there a recent change in the law that made the ATF modify their enforcement of FFLs or was this something that they decided to reinterpret? If it is the former, then this a clear overreach and violation of Article I and II. The Legislative branch can't be overruled/usurped by the Executive branch.
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I'm not that law smart Ras. Sorry.
 
#274
#274
hog88 said:
They were going to kill him regardless of whether he fired first or not. That is why the ATF didn't wear body cameras and ordered the local LEO assisting to turn theirs off.
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First sentence is speculation.
Second sentence is concerning, suspicious, and should be illegal.
 
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