Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

#226
#226
bamawriter said:
The bookcase that the key supposedly fell from didn't have a drawer. Did Avery move the key at some point?
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Not sure. I didn't see where Brendan mentioned that in his confession. Brendan said Avery was going to crush Teresa's car but I guess had too many eyes on him to make it happen and then the police quarantined to do the search. He did throw her cell phone in the fire and it was recovered and Brendan did tell the police about that.
 
#228
#228
hog88 said:
Dear lord.
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You don't have to refer to me as Lord but you can if you want. Very comparable though with these kinds of cases and the Kennedy conspiracy. You always have a certain segment who don't believe truth.
 
#230
#230
Sandvol said:
Not sure. I didn't see where Brendan mentioned that in his confession. Brendan said Avery was going to crush Teresa's car but I guess had too many eyes on him to make it happen and then the police quarantined to do the search. He did throw her cell phone in the fire and it was recovered and Brendan did tell the police about that.
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Again, none of that was entered into evidence in the Avery trial.
 
#232
#232
Sandvol said:
You don't have to refer to me as Lord but you can if you want. Very comparable though with these kinds of cases and the Kennedy conspiracy. You always have a certain segment who don't believe truth.
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It's possible to believe that Avery killed Halbach without believing the State's theory. I fall into that camp.
 
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#234
#234
Brenden Dassey said a lot when the cops were drilling stuff into his head. but, every time he told his story, the real story of what happened. it never change. unlike the coerced statements the cops got out of him.

He came home. got the mail. then he played ps. he did something. he watched tv. and at 9pm his uncle called him to come over for a bonfire. every time he gave this statement it was the same.

the reason they didn't use BD's confession. it hurt the prosecutions case. because he changed his statement each time he was questioned, they couldn't use it.
 
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#235
#235
loggervol said:
Brenden Dassey said a lot when the cops were drilling stuff into his head. but, every time he told his story, the real story of what happened. it never change. unlike the coerced statements the cops got out of him.

He came home. got the mail. then he played ps. he did something. he watched tv. and at 9pm his uncle called him to come over for a bonfire. every time he gave this statement it was the same.
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Logger, do you find it compelling that Teresa Halbach's remains were found in that same fire pit where Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey both admitted having a bonfire on the same day she went missing? What do you think the odds of that are?
 
#237
#237
Sandvol said:
Logger, do you find it compelling that Teresa Halbach's remains were found in that same fire pit where Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey both admitted having a bonfire on the same day she went missing? What do you think the odds of that are?
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I believe they found bones in that same pit but why didn't they find all of the bones in that same pit? why did the officers use shovels to extract the bones? if they would have extracted the bones correctly. they could have proved whether she was burnt there and the bones were moved to other places on the Avery's property. or, if she was burnt somewhere else and the bones had been moved there. but, because they used shovels, the only thing proved was, there was bone fragments in the pit and on other parts of the property.

this only plays into SA being framed.

where was she killed? because the evidence showed she wasn't killed in the trailer or the garage.

and, if he killed her, then moved her with her car. where was the fingerprints? yes, his blood was in the car but if he was dumb enough to leave blood. how was there no fingerprints in the car?
 
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#238
#238
Sandvol said:
Logger, do you find it compelling that Teresa Halbach's remains were found in that same fire pit where Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey both admitted having a bonfire on the same day she went missing? What do you think the odds of that are?
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They had a fire pit. The fact that they had a bonfire isn't exactly surprising.
 
#240
#240
Sandvol said:
How? That wasn't one of the things the prosecutor talked about on TV. His confession was March 1.
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There are dozens of articles before the confession that state the key was found in Avery's bedroom. I don't think the exact location was reported but the fact dassey said dresser drawer indicates he was guessing.
 
#241
#241
all of the evidence found was after they had search the Avery's property for eight days. was the police officers that incompetent? or, was there just nothing there? I would think that the more time went on. the harder it would be to find evidence but not in this case. I guess the manitowok officers just had a better knowledge of to know where to look....
 
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#242
#242
bamawriter said:
They had a fire pit. The fact that they had a bonfire isn't exactly surprising.
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Was the fact that her remains were found in the fire pit surprising? Was the fact that they had a bonfire in the pit her remains were found on the day she went missing surprising? If they weren't guilty what are the odds her bones end up in the pit they were using on the day she went missing? How many fire pits are there in Manitowoc County? What are the odds her remains end up in Avery's pit at all if he isn't guilty much less the fact that he is using the pit on the evening of her disappearance? The theories have to become pretty fantastical.
 
#243
#243
loggervol said:
all of the evidence found was after they had search the Avery's property for eight days. was the police officers that incompetent? or, was there just nothing there? I would think that the more time went on. the harder it would be to find evidence but not in this case. I guess the manitowok officers just had a better knowledge of to know where to look....
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It is more common than not for police to continue to find evidence in a crime scene. You have to realize this is a small county in Wisconsin. And, this isn't CSI Miami. Like the bullet with her DNA, it was matched to Steve Avery's 22 that was found in his home.
 
#245
#245
Sandvol said:
Was the fact that her remains were found in the fire pit surprising? Was the fact that they had a bonfire in the pit her remains were found on the day she went missing surprising? If they weren't guilty what are the odds her bones end up in the pit they were using on the day she went missing? How many fire pits are there in Manitowoc County? What are the odds her remains end up in Avery's pit at all if he isn't guilty much less the fact that he is using the pit on the evening of her disappearance? The theories have to become pretty fantastical.
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yes but, how long was it before they actually started looking in the fire pit for her remains? it was after they had had the place for eight days. it was also after the cops had got a coerced statement. so how long did that give someone to plant that evidence?
 
#246
#246
loggervol said:
exactly, how many people knew about that fire pit?
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So now you're saying someone else killed her and brought her bones to Steve Avery's fire pit? Wouldn't it be more logical to conclude that Steve Avery killed her and burned her remains in the fire pit especially since his DNA and blood were found on the car and the key, evidence that she was in his trailer, that he called and specifically asked for her, that he disguised his call, that he was the last person to see her alive, that the bullet from his gun had her DNA on it, that her car was found on his property? Wouldn't that be a more logical conclusion since there isn't one shred of evidence anyone else could have done this fantastical theory without someone coming forward to add any credibility to it?
 
#247
#247
loggervol said:
yes but, how long was it before they actually started looking in the fire pit for her remains? it was after they had had the place for eight days. it was also after the cops had got a coerced statement. so how long did that give someone to plant that evidence?
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It was almost immediately as soon as the vehicle was found.
 
#248
#248
Sandvol said:
Was the fact that her remains were found in the fire pit surprising? Was the fact that they had a bonfire in the pit her remains were found on the day she went missing surprising? If they weren't guilty what are the odds her bones end up in the pit they were using on the day she went missing? How many fire pits are there in Manitowoc County? What are the odds her remains end up in Avery's pit at all if he isn't guilty much less the fact that he is using the pit on the evening of her disappearance? The theories have to become pretty fantastical.
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I think Avery is guilty, and I think that her remains were disposed of, in whole or in part, in that pit. But that doesn't mean that I think Dassey participated in the murder, nor that I buy the State's theory of the crime, nor that I believe the case was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I think that believing the State's version of events requires a suspension of disbelief that no juror should be willing to exercise.
 
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#249
#249
Sandvol said:
It is more common than not for police to continue to find evidence in a crime scene. You have to realize this is a small county in Wisconsin. And, this isn't CSI Miami. Like the bullet with her DNA, it was matched to Steve Avery's 22 that was found in his home.
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This brings me back to what I said earlier. I don't believe you ever responded to it:

bamawriter said:
The Manitowoc Sheriff's Department was supposed to provide material, but not investigative, support to their colleagues in Calumet County. This policy was in place because of the conflict of interest that was unavoidable when a department investigates a suspect that is currently suing them. Despite the policy in place, the most significant pieces of evidence were found by Manitowoc Sheriffs.

Is it an undeniable fact that they planted evidence? No way. But given their conflict of interest, anything they found should have been inadmissable. Otherwise, the presumption of innocence is turned on its head.
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#250
#250
Sandvol said:
Was the fact that her remains were found in the fire pit surprising? Was the fact that they had a bonfire in the pit her remains were found on the day she went missing surprising? If they weren't guilty what are the odds her bones end up in the pit they were using on the day she went missing? How many fire pits are there in Manitowoc County? What are the odds her remains end up in Avery's pit at all if he isn't guilty much less the fact that he is using the pit on the evening of her disappearance? The theories have to become pretty fantastical.
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What are the odds of a man getting charged with rape that he didnt do?How many lies did avery get caught in?How many lies did the police get caught in?
 
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