Loyalities versus success.....

#76
#76
This question could basically also be asked, "Would you rather have a Phillip Fulmer or a Nick Saban?" Not too difficult for me...
 
#77
#77
olbemw7 said:
If that was all that was being traded, it wouldn't be detrimental. But once you start trading history/tradition/integrity for a winning season, that's when it becomes detrimental. See Kiffin era. He left us in a worse position than we started out. If you don't agree with that, then you are outside of your mind.
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I do agree with that. I also agree that guys like Mike Price and his lack of class/integrity hurt Alabama a lot. But they kept fighting and now they have Saban. I hope tradition makes you feel better this October in Neyland when there are 20,000 Bama fans chanting Rammer Jammer to the UT fans that didn't already leave early.
 
#78
#78
olbemw7 said:
If that was all that was being traded, it wouldn't be detrimental. But once you start trading history/tradition/integrity for a winning season, that's when it becomes detrimental. See Kiffin era. He left us in a worse position than we started out. If you don't agree with that, then you are outside of your mind.
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Total bull.
 
#79
#79
tvolsfan said:
Neyland, absolutely not. I'd gladly say I wish UT hired Spurrier in the late 80's than Fulmer in the 90's.
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I mean, don't get me wrong, I want it both ways. I want a winning program as much as the next guy, but I also want a program of integrity and one of which I can be proud to call myself a fan.
 
#80
#80
Lexvol said:
So you visit the library and humanities building before and after every home game?
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I'm referring to the colors, the sites, the history, the fans, the SEC. I mean, I haven't ever went to UT as a student, but if I had I would probably consider that important as well.
 
#81
#81
The only loyalty coaches have is to themselves and their family. Kiffin demonstrated that. I would rather have success. Do you want a coach no one wants to hire away from you?
 
#83
#83
As we all know... this debate is futile... When it comes down to it, we all know that I am right and everyone else is wrong, even the people that agree with me! I win! LOL :horse:
 
#84
#84
Last I checked, we still have all of those things even after a short stint by the now Anti-Christ.
 
#85
#85
olbemw7 said:
I mean, don't get me wrong, I want it both ways. I want a winning program as much as the next guy, but I also want a program of integrity and one of which I can be proud to call myself a fan.
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I want both as well. If I had to chose, I take winning by a lot.
 
#87
#87
Volfan8282 said:
Total bull.
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Yes, he CLEARLY made us a national contender. Are we ranked? No. Do we have a top 10 recruiting class? No. Were we nationally embarrassed when he left? Yes. Did we have difficulty finding a coach 3 weeks before NSD? Yes. Does that make us look like a desperate program on the verge of being a non-factor? Yes. Did he tarnish our reputation as a program of integrity and class? Yes. Did we get embarrassed in our bowl game in Atlanta like the last several times we have been there? Yes.

Please, enlighten me on how he left the program in better shape than it could've been if another coach were hired instead of him?
 
#88
#88
olbemw7 said:
Yes, he CLEARLY made us a national contender. Are we ranked? No. Do we have a top 10 recruiting class? No. Were we nationally embarrassed when he left? Yes. Did we have difficulty finding a coach 3 weeks before NSD? Yes. Does that make us look like a desperate program on the verge of being a non-factor? Yes. Did he tarnish our reputation as a program of integrity and class? Yes. Did we get embarrassed in our bowl game in Atlanta like the last several times we have been there? Yes.

Please, enlighten me on how he left the program in better shape than it could've been if another coach were hired instead of him?
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So it didn't work out? Do we try again, with something that was working, or should we just show our rivals the white flag?
 
#89
#89
oklavol said:
The only loyalty coaches have is to themselves and their family. Kiffin demonstrated that. I would rather have success. Do you want a coach no one wants to hire away from you?
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Absolutely not, but I would want one that would have enough integrity to finish what they set out to do. What exactly did the last staff set out to do?? Still haven't figured that one out yet.
 
#91
#91
tvolsfan said:
So it didn't work out? Do we try again, with something that was working, or should we just show our rivals the white flag?
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I'm not saying I wouldn't want Saban coaching our team. He doesn't run his mouth and embarrass our program like kiffin did. He also doesn't take off his shirt jumping around yelling in order to get recruits. And to top it all off, he wins NCs. So yeah, in an ideal world, like I previously said, I'd love to have someone who wins us NCs without embarrassing us with childish stunts in the process.
 
#92
#92
olbemw7 said:
Yes, he CLEARLY made us a national contender. Are we ranked? No. Do we have a top 10 recruiting class? No. Were we nationally embarrassed when he left? Yes. Did we have difficulty finding a coach 3 weeks before NSD? Yes. Does that make us look like a desperate program on the verge of being a non-factor? Yes. Did he tarnish our reputation as a program of integrity and class? Yes. Did we get embarrassed in our bowl game in Atlanta like the last several times we have been there? Yes.

Please, enlighten me on how he left the program in better shape than it could've been if another coach were hired instead of him?
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You must have a short-term memory. Do you remember that guy who was in here before Kiffin? Tubby fella? You might want to see what he did to the program before Kiffin ever stepped foot onto campus that made UT not a "national contender." So, that should answer your "Are we ranked?" and "Did we get embarrassed in our bowl game in Atlanta like the last several times we have been there?" questions and your lame attempt at sarcasm with being a national contender.

I was not nationally embarrassed. You must get embarrassed easily. He left for a better job. That doesn't mean UT is a bad job or not a great job. It is. So, I don't get your point there.

And, yeah, him leaving stings some with the recruiting class. But, we still had a better class last year and this year due to Kiffin than if we didn't have him. We were top 10 last year and would've been top 5 this year (still will be top 20 probably). All of that is due to Kiffin. How is that bad again?
 
#93
#93
olbemw7 said:
I'm not saying I wouldn't want Saban coaching our team. He doesn't run his mouth and embarrass our program like kiffin did. He also doesn't take off his shirt jumping around yelling in order to get recruits. And to top it all off, he wins NCs. So yeah, in an ideal world, like I previously said, I'd love to have someone who wins us NCs without embarrassing us with childish stunts in the process.
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I'd be perfectly happy to see Kiffin and co win a bunch of titles here.
 
#94
#94
tvolsfan said:
i'll say this. I can certainly tolerate the fans of other teams in the sec making fun of us for having a loudmouth, prick of a coach. What i don't like is florida and alabama mutilating us on a yearly basis while georgia and south carolina pass us up in the sec.
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this!
 
#95
#95
Volfan8282 said:
You must have a short-term memory. Do you remember that guy who was in here before Kiffin? Tubby fella? You might want to see what he did to the program before Kiffin ever stepped foot onto campus that made UT not a "national contender." So, that should answer your "Are we ranked?" and "Did we get embarrassed in our bowl game in Atlanta like the last several times we have been there?" questions and your lame attempt at sarcasm with being a national contender.

I was not nationally embarrassed. You must get embarrassed easily. He left for a better job. That doesn't mean UT is a bad job or not a great job. It is. So, I don't get your point there.

And, yeah, him leaving stings some with the recruiting class. But, we still had a better class last year and this year due to Kiffin than if we didn't have him. We were top 10 last year and would've been top 5 this year (still will be top 20 probably). All of that is due to Kiffin. How is that bad again?
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My point is that he didn't change anything. So you basically solidified my argument, thanks. And sure, if he had stayed, our recruiting class would've been top 5. Woulda shoulda coulda. Face the facts, he DID NOT leave the program in better shape than it was. If he would've stayed, YES we would be a better program. You must be living in La La Land. He didn't stay. We don't even have a top 20 recruiting class. We were without a coach 3 weeks before NSD and are still putting together a staff. You aren't answering my question. How did he leave us in a better position than we were in when we were searching for head coaches last year? If you think about the question, you'll realize you're wrong.
 
#96
#96
Wasn't Phillip Fulmer loyal to us?.. Why did we let him go? The better question would be, why didn't we just re-hire him?
 
#97
#97
Yesterday, I would prefer both...but yesterday is gone. Today and in the future the key is success. You see, there is no loyalty without it and the amount of success achieved will correspond into the amount of loyalty purchased for both fans and coaches. Without success - the coach is gone. With moderate success, the coach may be marketable as ready to "take the next step", "explore new options/goals", or even "get their dream job" and they will be allowed to leave because value is good but not enough.

Only with ultimate success can there be any "loyalty" anymore.
 
#99
#99
tvolsfan said:
I'd be perfectly happy to see Kiffin and co win a bunch of titles here.
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Me too, but if that were the case, he'd have to stay here for more than a couple of years. And if that were the case, he probably have a little more loyalty to the program.
 
#100
#100
Short answer for a long thread. I will take Dooley and our chances moving forward. Easy to talk about the "what ifs".
 
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