Loyal Fans u are

[LittleVol]

If you've been a Vol Football fan before 1992.

I... actually watched highlights of the UT - Florida games from 1993- 1997.

My God in Heaven...

I swear, it was the same game every year. Not the final scores but the feel and tone of the games were a the same.

I was like... "this was our glory years?"

Seriously, even these past 11 years didnt seem as bad as what a I was watching. How can we play so badly against the same team every year.

That was agony watching that. Graham fumbling, Peyton getting sacked, throwing picks right and left. DBs getting toasted!!

I know Fulmer is a legend, but I swear ive never seen Butch's Vols quit and play terrified like that.

I applaud all of you who endured that.

I hope we can beat them this year. They have some nice weapons in their 2017 class so far.

One year at a time. I'll go ahead and say it... some of you all are better fans than I ever will be. I hope to never see Tennessee take that type of abuse again.

 

[Vol_til_I_die]

I'd give anything to be able to "endure" all of that again compared to what we've been through the previous 6 years or so. Being snake bit against one team is a lot better than hoping we make a bowl game.

 

[sjt18]

Spurrier lived inside Fulmer's head. It was both incredible to watch and frustrating in the extreme. It was a pretty classic clash of leaderships styles.

Fulmer wanted to be the "game manager". He was cautious.... predictable... deliberate.

Spurrier was aggressive and the more conservative an opponent was.... the more aggressive he instinctively became. Fulmer's tendency of course was to become even more conservative when he sensed things getting out of hand.

Recipe for exactly what we saw.

Other coaches with no more talent than UT did better against Spurrier.

 

[LittleVol]

I'd give anything to be able to "endure" all of that again compared to what we've been through the previous 6 years or so. Being snake bit against one team is a lot better than hoping we make a bowl game.

Good point.

All of those were good Vol teams.
A lot of talent.

 

[sjt18]

Good point.

All of those were good Vol teams.
A lot of talent.

I think flashbacks of Fulmer vs Spurrier is maybe why Jones' coaching vs UF and OU last year (in addition to Vandy and others in prior years) bothered me so much.

 

[Boca Vol]

OP,

I was at UT from 90-94 but the UF teams from the 90's were very good. UT was very good but Spurrier knew how to use our aggressive D against us to create the matchups he wanted.

 

[LittleVol]

Spurrier lived inside Fulmer's head. It was both incredible to watch and frustrating in the extreme. It was a pretty classic clash of leaderships styles.

Fulmer wanted to be the "game manager". He was cautious.... predictable... deliberate.

Spurrier was aggressive and the more conservative an opponent was.... they more aggressive he instinctively became. Fulmer's tendency of course was to become even more conservative when he sensed things getting out of hand.

Recipe for exactly what we saw.

Other coaches with no more talent than UT did better against Spurrier.

Thats a great psychological breakdown of what I was seeing.

Its almost as if... the very uniform contrasts of the two teams spelled doom for UT.

SJ, do you think we beat Florida this year?

 

[LittleVol]

OP,

I was at UT from 90-94 but the UF teams from the 90's were very good. UT was very good but Spurrier knew how to use our aggressive D against us to create the matchups he wanted.

Yeah they won like 5 SEC championships in the 90s?

Florida had some playmakers at WR. And Fred Weary was friggin Charles Woodson/Deion Sanders against us.

It just felt like UT never even had a chance. Any of those years...

2014 &2015 we let slip. We were in control most of the games.

Even the Tebow and Harvin teams didnt dominate us like that. And our talent was down during those years..

 

[livefaith]

OP, the UF games are the anomaly from the 90s. UF was in our entire teams head (still are) for some reason. Our turnovers and defensive breakdowns in those game are beyond belief. To be fair though UF was unbelievably good at the same time.
Except for these and the 2 Cornhusker games we were never really outclassed in the 90s.

 

[sjt18]

Thats a great psychological breakdown of what I was seeing.

Its almost as if... the very uniform contrasts of the two teams spelled doom for UT.

SJ, do you think we beat Florida this year?

Yes. I think UT should have won the last two games as well so I understand the hesitation by some.

UT at this point has superior depth. I like the UT OL vs DL match up when compared to the other way round. UT is hands down better at QB and RB. UF has good TE's but together I'd say the receiver groups are a push.

I like UT's ST's better across the board.

The only place where UF appears to have an advantage is LB.... but I still think UT's overall front 7 when you account for depth of talent is better.


But the coaching still has to be there and Jones can't climb into a shell again. McElwain is cocky.... he won't hesitate to take advantage again.

I never went as negative as many on the DeBord hire and have grown to like it over time. The Shoop hire was an absolute coup. He may be a Saban level defensive mind. Jones just needs to NOT limit these guys if UT gets a lead.

All this said, UF will be better on O this year than last IMO. I think their D will miss Hargreaves and their other losses to the NFL. They should be thinner until McElwain's recruiting catches them back up.

Bottom line- I think UF overall will be the same or slightly improved. UT should be in full blossom with depth and talent everywhere.

 

[Volbackhomefromtx]

Those were Spurrier coached Florida teams during the time that Florida was winning a National Championship. In my opinion, he was the best coach in the SEC at the time and knew how to game plan Fulmer and Manning. That is what made the 1998 win so special and important in so many ways. Because the Vols were so talented that made the frustration hard to bear. But as Vol tie I die says, that frustration paled to what we have had to live through since 2008.

 

[sjt18]

Oh, it was also an early indication of what would eventually sink Fulmer IMO.

He was VERY resistant to change. He didn't change playbooks. He didn't change methods. He allowed personal loyalties to trump loyalty to the team by having a steady standard for discipline. Even Kiffin recognized how big this problem was when he arrived.

 

[photovol]

I'm afraid Spurrier out classed Fulmer as a coach, as bad as I hate to admit it.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I disagree that it was the same game every year. Peyton actually played very well in the '95 game and we had a 30-14 lead in the 2nd quarter. Then, came a cluster**** like none in history. We gave up a TD drive just before the end of the half where we only had 10 men on the field because one of our safeties (Raymond Austin, I think) inexplicably left the field just prior to the snap. Our corner thought he had help...and after we started the 3rd quarter with another strong drive, Jeff Hall missed a chip shot field goal (Florida then scored a TD)... our 2nd drive of the 3rd quarter was another good drive but Jay Graham fumbled while diving over the line for a 1st down, it was scooped up for a long return (Florida then scored a TD). On our 3rd series, Jay Graham fumbled again on the first play. (Florida then scored a TD). On our 4th series we went 3 and out and Larry Binion shanked a punt 15 yards...(Florida then scored a TD). It was an avalanche but very different from the '94 game where we were never in it. That was an ugly day for Jay Graham...and we could not cover Ike Hilliard to save our butts.

 

[LittleVol]

Yes. I think UT should have won the last two games as well so I understand the hesitation by some.

UT at this point has superior depth. I like the UT OL vs DL match up when compared to the other way round. UT is hands down better at QB and RB. UF has good TE's but together I'd say the receiver groups are a push.

I like UT's ST's better across the board.

The only place where UF appears to have an advantage is LB.... but I still think UT's overall front 7 when you account for depth of talent is better.


But the coaching still has to be there and Jones can't climb into a shell again. McElwain is cocky.... he won't hesitate to take advantage again.

I never went as negative as many on the DeBord hire and have grown to like it over time. The Shoop hire was an absolute coup. He may be a Saban level defensive mind. Jones just needs to NOT limit these guys if UT gets a lead.

All this said, UF will be better on O this year than last IMO. I think their D will miss Hargreaves and their other losses to the NFL. They should be thinner until McElwain's recruiting catches them back up.

Bottom line- I think UF overall will be the same or slightly improved. UT should be in full blossom with depth and talent everywhere.

We've got some horses this year.

But I agree Florida will be better than last year. So will we.

I don't care if we win on a hail Mary as time expires 63- 62 Vols in a shootout! Or a field goal 3- 0 Vols. Beating Florida HAS to become a reality...

I'm having nightmares of that Elite 11 Qb (Frank ) coming of the bench and making throws all over the field .

Jarrad Davis sacking Dobbs and causing fumbles...
No running room for Hurd.

Rashaun Gaulden can turn the tide...

 

[LittleVol]

I disagree that it was the same game every year. Peyton actually played very well in the '95 game and we had a 30-14 lead in the 2nd quarter. Then, came a cluster**** like none in history. We gave up a TD drive just before the end of the half where we only had 10 men on the field because one of our safeties (Raymond Austin, I think) inexplicably left the field just prior to the snap. Our corner thought he had help...and after we started the 3rd quarter with another strong drive, Jeff Hall missed a chip shot field goal (Florida then scored a TD)... our 2nd drive of the 3rd quarter was another good drive but Jay Graham fumbled while diving over the line for a 1st down, it was scooped up for a long return (Florida then scored a TD). On our 3rd series, Jay Graham fumbled again on the first play. (Florida then scored a TD). On our 4th series we went 3 and out and Larry Binion shanked a punt 15 yards...(Florida then scored a TD). It was an avalanche but very different from the '94 game where we were never in it. That was an ugly day for Jay Graham...and we could not cover Ike Hilliard to save our butts.

Yeah I watched all of that last night. Stuff like that just isn't supposed to happen. We could have been up 44- 14 and still end up losing 64- 44...

They bullied us...

All through the 90's.

Fate has got to grant us retribution.

Rashaun Gaulden will turn the tide.
I just have a funny feeling about him vs Florida.

 

[sjt18]

We've got some horses this year.

But I agree Florida will be better than last year. So will we.

I don't care if we win on a hail Mary as time expires 63- 62 Vols in a shootout! Or a field goal 3- 0 Vols. Beating Florida HAS to become a reality...

I'm having nightmares of that Elite 11 Qb (Frank ) coming of the bench and making throws all over the field .

Jarrad Davis sacking Dobbs and causing fumbles...
No running room for Hurd.

Rashaun Gaulden can turn the tide...

I would have felt good without Shoop. I feel GREAT with Shoop.

The O IMO comes down to someone being able to catch a pass down field and Dobbs being able to deliver it. If there's no threat over the top then UF will play everyone up close and make things tough. Go over their heads a time or two... even on incompletions... and you get more room. Complete one... and you can really get things going.

 

[BowlBrother85]

However, from '98-'01 we played them to a standstill...Chavis definitely seemed to learn where to start bringing the pressure from (and we got better on the defensive front as well). For the most part, Florida's offensive line really whipped us from '93-'97. That was not the case at all from '98-'01..

 

[ETV]

Florida had a ton of talent on the roster during that time. Multiple conference titles during that time span show how superior they were.

For the better part of the decade, the SEC was Florida w/ Tennessee in a close second place and everyone else a distant third.

 

[LittleVol]

However, from '98-'01 we played them to a standstill...Chavis definitely seemed to learn where to start bringing the pressure from (and we got better on the defensive front as well). For the most part, Florida's offensive line really whipped us from '93-'97. That was not the case at all from '98-'01..

Yeah it was a true rivalry during those years!
The Ice Man had a lot to do with that...

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Spurrier lived inside Fulmer's head. It was both incredible to watch and frustrating in the extreme. It was a pretty classic clash of leaderships styles.

Fulmer wanted to be the "game manager". He was cautious.... predictable... deliberate.

Spurrier was aggressive and the more conservative an opponent was.... the more aggressive he instinctively became. Fulmer's tendency of course was to become even more conservative when he sensed things getting out of hand.

Recipe for exactly what we saw.

Other coaches with no more talent than UT did better against Spurrier.

Really, SJT? Not while he was at Florida (which is when Fulmer played him).

Spurrier had at least as good a win rate against everyone else* as he did against Fulmer, with one exception: Bobby Bowden at FSU.

Spurrier @ Florida was 12-0 against Kentucky, 10-0 vs USCe, and 10-0 against Vandy, of course. But he was also perfect against Arkansas (3-0), and here's how the rest of Spurrier's regular opponents stack up in W/L %:

Georgia - 11-1 (92%)
LSU - 11-1 (92%)
Auburn - 10-3 (84%)
Miss St - 4-2 (67%)
Alabama - 6-3 (67%)
Tennessee - 8-4 (67%)
FSU - 5-8-1 (39%)

Bottom line is, Spurrier wasn't so much inside Fulmer's head (though he sure tried to be, and constantly) as he was just a very, very good coach who won a heck of a lot of games.

Fulmer actually did pretty well against him, compared to most everyone else.

Go Vols!


*Among teams he played two or more times. Notre Dame (Lou Holtz), Nebraska (Tom Osborne), Miami (Butch Davis), and a Nick Saban-led Michigan State squad were all able to beat Spurrier once. Then again, if the Fulmer-Spurrier series ended after just one game, Fulmer would've been 1-0 against the man, too.

 

[livefaith]

Really, SJT? Not while he was at Florida (which is when Fulmer played him).

Spurrier had at least as good a win rate against everyone else* as he did against Fulmer, with one exception: Bobby Bowden at FSU.

Spurrier @ Florida was 12-0 against Kentucky, 10-0 vs USCe, and 10-0 against Vandy, of course. But he was also perfect against Arkansas (3-0), and here's how the rest of Spurrier's regular opponents stack up in W/L %:

Georgia - 11-1 (92%)
LSU - 11-1 (92%)
Auburn - 10-3 (84%)
Miss St - 4-2 (67%)
Alabama - 6-3 (67%)
Tennessee - 8-4 (67%)
FSU - 5-8-1 (39%)

Bottom line is, Spurrier wasn't so much inside Fulmer's head (though he sure tried to be, and constantly) as he was just a very, very good coach who won a heck of a lot of games.

Fulmer actually did pretty well against him, compared to most everyone else.

Go Vols!


*Among teams he played two or more times. Notre Dame, Nebraska, Miami, and a Nick Saban-led Michigan State squad were all able to beat Spurrier once.

Solid post

 

[photovol]

Florida for the most part had better athletes than Tennessee for a large number of years, not to mention a better coach.....

 

[jackaro]

Fulmer had a load of talent on those teams and won a lot of games with talent alone. However, Tennessee would often get their butts kicked when they went against a team of equal or better talent. That was coaching. Spurrier was a fantastic coach, Fulmer could recruit.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Fulmer had a load of talent on those teams and won a lot of games with talent alone. However, Tennessee would often get their butts kicked when they went against a team of equal or better talent. That was coaching. Spurrier was a fantastic coach, Fulmer could recruit.

You don't win a national championship without being able to do all parts of your job well.

Fulmer was a very good coach...a very good trainer...a very good recruiter...and a very good leader and manager. He did all parts of his job well, some a bit better than others.