Lou Holtz backing up Dooley's comments on the rule

#51
#51
Volfan8282 said:
I would be very surprised, yes. My point is simply that Dooley and Co. need to look in the mirror. If he wants to be mad about the pass interference play, then fine. The number of players on the field is on them. The refs gave them time from what I could tell. Let's just say I've not been impressed with playcalling and just overall discipline in some fairly elementary aspects of football from this group of coaches.
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Hatvol doesn't post often on the football board if that's who you are trying to impress.

It's not as simple as going to the depth chart menu on NCAA and subbing players. That is why the rule is in place. As a coach, You can't move from the 35 yard line. Add that into trying to mirror your subs based on what LSU is doing withing an 8 sec window is horrendous.

Don't let that get in the way of your cuteness though....
 
#52
#52
VolSwaff said:
Hatvol doesn't post often on the football board if that's who you are trying to impress.

It's not as simple as going to the depth chart menu on NCAA and subbing players. That is why the rule is in place. As a coach, You can't move from the 35 yard line. Add that into trying to mirror your subs based on what LSU is doing withing an 8 sec window is horrendous.

Don't let that get in the way of your cuteness though....
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I don't even know what all you're referring to or talking about, and I highly doubt you do either. Hatvol? LSU didn't even know what LSU was doing on that last play. If we couldn't for sure sub correctly, then Wilcox should've just gone with what we had out there. LSU was beyond lost on that play. Hope that isn't too "cute" for you to understand
 
#54
#54
Here are my feelings from my seat:

1. He put Jefferson back in! O' how delicious. He's panicked. If they don't get in here, they won't get another play off.

2. HAW HAW HAW a corn-dog has more brains. They are trying to get substitutes in! Only Les Miles. If they snap the ball, the refs will have four offensive penalties to choose from to end the game. HAW HAW HAW! (then the fumbled snap - delicious).

3. Wait. WHY ARE WE SENDING ON SUBSTITUTES?? Don't panic, Dooley. Les has already handed you this game.....

That's almost it verbatim.
 
#55
#55
What really upsets me is that the 13-14 players on our side didn't affect the outcome of the play. The fumble didn't occur because of too many guys on the field. But unfortunatly too many men on the field does influence the outcome of the ball game. I also think the whole last few min of the ball game where handled poorly by the refs. That pass interferance call was bull----. When a ball is that overthrown you don't make that call in that situation. That gave them a few yards more and an extra down to play with. If this was at home maybe things turn out differantly. I think crowd noise, shifty offensive substitutions, and fog of war is to be blamed on this one. I could not be more proud of on the field performance. They played their hearts out and in the end it got ripped out and stomped on. Coach Dooley is getting our boys to play hard. It won't take long for him to turn this program around.
 
#56
#56
utgibbs said:
Here are my feelings from my seat:
1. He put Jefferson back in! O' how delicious. He's panicked. If they don't get in here, they won't get another play off.
2. HAW HAW HAW a corn-dog has more brains. They are trying to get substitutes in! Only Les Miles. If they snap the ball, the refs will have four offensive penalties to choose from to end the game. HAW HAW HAW! (then the fumbled snap - delicious).
3. Wait. WHY ARE WE SENDING ON SUBSTITUTES?? Don't panic, Dooley. Les has already handed you this game.....
That's almost it verbatim.
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So the fumbled snap entered your mind before we sent in subs?

Either way, it's perfectly normal to sub in and out players. I have no problem with that.
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#57
#57
how can you have 13 on the field if the players who come out know who should be running off the field ??? Would be great tyo beat Bama
 
#58
#58
DD said it on his radio show that there were other plays that could have settled the outcome. Missing the 4th and one and then letting LSU get a first down on 4th and long. It is a horrible way to lose a game on the final play but there were a ton of 'what it' plays in between play one and the last play.
 
#59
#59
RhodeIslandVol said:
So the fumbled snap entered your mind before we sent in subs?

Either way, it's perfectly normal to sub in and out players. I have no problem with that.
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No, I reckoned they would have four offensive penalties to choose from. Instead, Les Miles and co. do one better and completely botch the snap.

It wasn't a perfectly normal situation. I had a big problem with it. We all have a big problem with it now.
 
#61
#61
Will dooley push for an asterisk in the record book, with a footnote explaining the rule interpretation for this loss?
 
#62
#62
1st: The pass interference that got them to the 2 yard line in the first place was totally bogus....it was an over thrown ball. LSU player wouldn't have been able to catch it if anyone was on him.

2nd: The right tackle on the quarterback sweep was totally holding. Result: 10 yard penalty....We still held them on the play.

3rd: With all the caos at final play, was there seriously one ref counting players?

4th: The ruling that Dooley is referring to, is, once Offense is coming to ball, The Defense has time to Substitute, What if the other 2 players were telling another 2 to sub off? And when they got out there LSU was ready to snap, therefore they stayed on field in that split second? It won't be reversed but it also wouldn't put the ball at the one half line. Hec, LSU quarterback didn't even know the ball was hiked. You could say the Center for LSU won that game for knowing the time.

These are my thoughts: But on the contrary, coaches shouldn't have been subbing. But to say they need to be fired? Come on! What if you got fired everytime you made mistake at work? You would have multiple jobs. Our defense was solid and fought til the very end. Screw those who want to point fingers and fire people. IF you have a problem with it....hit me back.....I would love to meet you anywhere. SERIOUSLY! You kind of people make me sick and you need to be slapped around. I am not your passive little activist that sits behind a computer. Lets go! Shut your mouth and pull for your VOLS! A simple, man the coaches cost us that one, but I think they learned alot from this experience. I hate negativity and if I were a board member or able to have control. Negative posting wouldn't be allowed period. There is a difference it man they missed this or man we have to get better at this than saying a bunch of negative stuff. Bet I could say ALOT!!! of negative stuff about you, but I bet you have some great qualities about you.....I tend to say, Hey lets get better in our weeknessess but even get stronger in our strengths. Anyway, I bitter about the loss, but I sure as hec ain't getting on here listening to you bunch of winers.
 
#63
#63
VolBurgers said:
They didn't get off because there was chaos and confusion due to the referee inadequately doing his job.
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Lol...............now that's funny. The confusion was caused by the refs? Seriously?


Why can't most admit that we made a sub error in the frantic finish of a big game. The ref stood over the ball until we ran 2 extra guys onto the field. He did his job. Move on. We made the last bonehead error of the game, giving the real boneheads an extra play.


The fact remains:

1) We didn't run enough clock during our last drive.

2) We couldn't get 4th and a foot to extend the drive and kill the clock.

3) We couldn't stop them on 4th and 17 (or so).

4) We couldn't stop them in the last play.


Blame the refs all you want, but we could have ended them LONG before that final play fiasco.
 
#65
#65
The coaching staff blew this one. we had plenty of the time to substitute. this loss hurts , but it hurts even worse knowing it was our own damn fault.
 
#66
#66
PA Vol said:
Just agreed with Dooley. said that we were not given ample time to adjust to LSU's substitution. said that it is a blatant rule break and the ref should have pointed this out.

Mark May blamed the coaching staff, Wilcox and Dooley alike.

I have mixed feelings. May is right, but if it was a rule violation then it shouldve been enforced.

Thoughts?

edit: Mods, i know there is already 49577 threads about this topic. i only made a new one because Holtz was talking about it. merge if necessary.
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Reference: 2009-10 NCAA® FOOTBALL RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS

Rule 3, Article 5, paragraph e.
“While in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, Team A is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage with the obvious attempt of creating a defensive disadvantage. If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitutes.”

The key here is that the officials did not attempt to stop play. If play had been stopped, NR, or the oncoming subs would have had time to communicate the change.

The issue that really bothers me is LSU's number 53 throwing his helmet after the play. This was a dead-ball infraction (unsportsmanlike), so in reality, the penalties should have been administered as follows:

  1. Live Ball: Half the distance to the goal (set up on the one).
  2. Dead Ball - 15 yards from position.

The ball should have been put in play at the 16 yard line.
 
#67
#67
VolBurgers said:
They didn't get off because there was chaos and confusion due to the referee inadequately doing his job.
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Didn't look like they were trying to get off. It's a good point from Dooley, but it wasn't like they were trotting off the field when the ball was snapped.
 
#68
#68
utgibbs said:
Here are my feelings from my seat:

1. He put Jefferson back in! O' how delicious. He's panicked. If they don't get in here, they won't get another play off.

2. HAW HAW HAW a corn-dog has more brains. They are trying to get substitutes in! Only Les Miles. If they snap the ball, the refs will have four offensive penalties to choose from to end the game. HAW HAW HAW! (then the fumbled snap - delicious).

3. Wait. WHY ARE WE SENDING ON SUBSTITUTES?? Don't panic, Dooley. Les has already handed you this game.....

That's almost it verbatim.
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I'm 100% certain you're lying.
 
#69
#69
Well crap! Went to bed thinking maybe this is a bad dream.....but you guys are still ripping, so it must be true. Looks like there is no consensus yet as to who was driving the train at the end of the game.
 
#70
#70
kptvol said:
I'm 100% certain you're lying.
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I yelled in front of the 10 people watching the game in my living room, "We have 15 men on the field" when they went down and set before the last play.

Then I celebrated when I saw no flag and assumed I had been wrong.
 
#71
#71
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I yelled in front of the 10 people watching the game in my living room, "We have 15 men on the field" when they went down and set before the last play.

Then I celebrated when I saw no flag and assumed I had been wrong.
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Do you have two screen names? I noticed 10 men on the field for the UAB game, so I'm not saying it's impossible to pick up. I just know gibbs didn't.
 
#73
#73
kptvol said:
Didn't look like they were trying to get off. It's a good point from Dooley, but it wasn't like they were trotting off the field when the ball was snapped.
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They weren't moving because the damn ball was about to be snapped. If the referee stood over the ball and did not allow the center to get set the players would have had ample time to look over to the coaching staff and get the proper calls, etc.

The clusterfck was caused by the official.
 
#75
#75
VolBurgers said:
They weren't moving because the damn ball was about to be snapped. If the referee stood over the ball and did not allow the center to get set the players would have had ample time to look over to the coaching staff and get the proper calls, etc.

The clusterfck was caused by the official.
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Maybe, but it's not like there was a safety on the play behind everyone that could stand there and count 10, or uh 12, guys in front of him.
 
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