Lmaoooo

#2
#2
I didn't know state universities even HAD attendance policies. I thought as long as they got your money they didn't care if you came to class or not. I went to a small Baptist school, so missing a class was akin to having your car ( with it's required university parking sticker) spotted at The Watering Hole. I really don't know how I feel about attendance policies for colleges. If a person wants to squander thousands of dollars that the school gets whether they go to class or not, shouldn't they have that right? Some folks can do self-directed studies and learn as much as some perfect attendees. Of course scholarship students are a different matter entirely, since it isn't their money they're squandering.

I am prepared to be flamed for this post. :lol:
 
#3
#3
Most colleges could care less if you go to class or not. Now people are wanting the athletes to have strict guidelines when the other students don't. Doesn't make much sense considering all the work the athletes do to perfect their craft.

I am not for athletes getting special treatment, but people need to be realistic here.

One more edit here. I didn't think about the fact that some of the players are on scholarships. Now I don't how I feel about it. I guess they should just go to class so this wouldn't be a big deal.
 
#4
#4
It's a catch 22 and no real correct answer. If you are a paying student at a public university, the only graduation requirement is a minimum gpa for your chosen degree field. Which basically means you have to take and pass the exams. Having and enforcing attendance policies for 30,000 students is a bit different than doing so at small private unviersities, where the overwhelming beliefs are that you are not squandering your money, but your parents money, so you will go to class and be accounted for. Now, if you are on scholarship, whether academic or athletic, then it is different. It is not your money. I feel those blessed students have an obligation to honor their free ride in all aspects of their life while enrolled. But, how do you have an attendance policy that says if you get assistance, you get monitored for attendance, and if you foot your own bill, you can do whatever.
 
#5
#5
As long as they are pasing on their OWN who cares if they go to class or not, I skipped my share of classes and part of mine was schorlarship and part I paid for. Why should they be held to higher attendance standards than the rest of the student body?
 
#6
#6
Looking back - at least in the first couple of years of college - I'd say that just showing up for class was about 90% of the equation.
 
#7
#7
Funny how the article warped what Fulmer's intentions really were. Fulmer had a few things to discuss before just making a policy.... I am just paraphrasing here....

1. Is there really a problem that needs to be fixed? If the players are already going to class.... if each coach already has an attendance policy.... why create a new rule just to create one??

2. If this new policy is enacted, how will UT be affected since MOST OF THE OTHER SEC SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE A SIMILAR POLICY.... basically, UT would be at a disadvantage, even if from a perception standpoint during recruiting. Other schools might use this policy against UT during recruiting.

3. Lastly, IMHO, I think Fulmer would have no problem adopting an attendance policy as long as the rest of the SEC and NCAA adopted the same policy. So the folks at other schools ridiculing Fulmer over this subject.... put your money where your mouth is.... where is your attendance policy!!!
 
#8
#8
Originally posted by allvol@Feb 21, 2005 12:47 PM
Funny how the article warped what Fulmer's intentions really were. Fulmer had a few things to discuss before just making a policy.... I am just paraphrasing here....

1. Is there really a problem that needs to be fixed? If the players are already going to class.... if each coach already has an attendance policy.... why create a new rule just to create one??

2. If this new policy is enacted, how will UT be affected since MOST OF THE OTHER SEC SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE A SIMILAR POLICY.... basically, UT would be at a disadvantage, even if from a perception standpoint during recruiting. Other schools might use this policy against UT during recruiting.

3. Lastly, IMHO, I think Fulmer would have no problem adopting an attendance policy as long as the rest of the SEC and NCAA adopted the same policy. So the folks at other schools ridiculing Fulmer over this subject.... put your money where your mouth is.... where is your attendance policy!!!
Click to expand...

good points allvol.
 
#9
#9
After reading some of the things Fulmer had to say about this, I agree w/ him. His main arguement was that it held athletes to a much higher standard than regular students. Unless dictated by the professor, there is no mandatory attendance for non-athletes at UT. We argue and argue that these guys should be allowed to enjoy their college experience, but one of those experiences is learning to live on your own. This in no way changes the fact that they must pass in order to play. All it does is give them the freedom every other student on campus has, to go or skip class.
 
#10
#10
Originally posted by allvol@Feb 21, 2005 12:47 PM
Funny how the article warped what Fulmer's intentions really were. Fulmer had a few things to discuss before just making a policy.... I am just paraphrasing here....

1. Is there really a problem that needs to be fixed? If the players are already going to class.... if each coach already has an attendance policy.... why create a new rule just to create one??

2. If this new policy is enacted, how will UT be affected since MOST OF THE OTHER SEC SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE A SIMILAR POLICY.... basically, UT would be at a disadvantage, even if from a perception standpoint during recruiting. Other schools might use this policy against UT during recruiting.

3. Lastly, IMHO, I think Fulmer would have no problem adopting an attendance policy as long as the rest of the SEC and NCAA adopted the same policy. So the folks at other schools ridiculing Fulmer over this subject.... put your money where your mouth is.... where is your attendance policy!!!
Click to expand...

Excellent points.....Those FRZ people are out of their minds LOL
 
#11
#11
I aggree with Fulmer. Face it, most of those kids are at UT to play football. They bring in millions of dollars a year for the athletic departemnt. In my opinion, as long as they are bringing in money for the university, which is what the athletic departemnt wants, they should be allowed to take a few days off is they wish to.
 
#12
#12
Doubtful anyone will have my back but I think it is a disgrace that we have nothing of sorts in terms of policing our players into going to class.

Cousin at UGA has said Richt does it...
LSU does it....
UF says they do it...

We should too
 
#13
#13
A few points on the attendance issue - from my perspective as a professor.

There are some instances where in-class discussions, project work etc. requires that students be present. I vary my attendance policy depending on the course but typically, there is some penalty for missing excessive classes. Recognize too that class discussion is a valuable part of the learning experience and accordingly, students have a duty to contribute to that discussion - something that clearly requires attendance.


Ultimately, we have an education mission - if I can verify that a student's attendance is crucial to learning (not grades) then it is my obligation to require attendance. Along with that obligation comes the corresponding obligation to make class attendance valuable (not the same as entertaining). No doubt we've all experienced situations where you could pass or even make an A without full attendance. However, purchasing education is not the same as purchasing a product. Think about it, easy A's equate to an inferior education. Contrary to another poster's comment, the majority of faculty at state schools do care and take the education mission very seriously.

Since the University is ultimately making money from athletes, it has an obligation to structure the system to ensure that student-athletes receive an education. I'm not advocating a mandatory attendance policy but rather suggesting that the University take it's education mission very seriously.

Just my :twocents: --- Flame away :p
 
#15
#15
Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Feb 21, 2005 12:50 AM
I didn't know state universities even HAD attendance policies. I thought as long as they got your money they didn't care if you came to class or not. I went to a small Baptist school, so missing a class was akin to having your car ( with it's required university parking sticker) spotted at The Watering Hole. I really don't know how I feel about attendance policies for colleges. If a person wants to squander thousands of dollars that the school gets whether they go to class or not, shouldn't they have that right? Some folks can do self-directed studies and learn as much as some perfect attendees. Of course scholarship students are a different matter entirely, since it isn't their money they're squandering.

I am prepared to be flamed for this post. :lol:
Click to expand...

Exactly!

Why should athletes be held to an attendance policy that the general population is not held to.

I believe Coach Fulmer was on the right side of this issue.

It's highly discriminatory to expect a person to have a better attendance policy JUST because they're an athlete. It's just plain wrong.
 
#16
#16
Originally posted by volinbham@Feb 22, 2005 12:07 AM
A few points on the attendance issue - from my perspective as a professor.

There are some instances where in-class discussions, project work etc. requires that students be present. I vary my attendance policy depending on the course but typically, there is some penalty for missing excessive classes. Recognize too that class discussion is a valuable part of the learning experience and accordingly, students have a duty to contribute to that discussion - something that clearly requires attendance.


Ultimately, we have an education mission - if I can verify that a student's attendance is crucial to learning (not grades) then it is my obligation to require attendance. Along with that obligation comes the corresponding obligation to make class attendance valuable (not the same as entertaining). No doubt we've all experienced situations where you could pass or even make an A without full attendance. However, purchasing education is not the same as purchasing a product. Think about it, easy A's equate to an inferior education. Contrary to another poster's comment, the majority of faculty at state schools do care and take the education mission very seriously.

Since the University is ultimately making money from athletes, it has an obligation to structure the system to ensure that student-athletes receive an education. I'm not advocating a mandatory attendance policy but rather suggesting that the University take it's education mission very seriously.

Just my :twocents: --- Flame away :p
Click to expand...

Interesting perspective, but I believe you'd probably agree that any policy should apply to all students, not just athletes.

If the university believes an attendance policy is needful, then it should be applied across the board, not discriminately.

While conventional wisdom would hold that it is in the best interest of the student to attend regularly, it is not essential, nor even conjoined to a great education in every case.

While some students will profit from regular attendance, others might be just as well, or even better served, if that time is devoted to research, reading or some other opportunity of learning outside the classroom.

A quality education is like a recipe. What works for one might not work as well for another, and as any good cook knows; a little variation, a small personal touch here and there can improve the fare for one palate, and hinder it for another.
 
#17
#17
Originally posted by OldVol@Feb 22, 2005 4:56 PM

Interesting perspective, but I believe you'd probably agree that any policy should apply to all students, not just athletes.

If the university believes an attendance policy is needful, then it should be applied across the board, not discriminately.

While conventional wisdom would hold that it is in the best interest of the student to attend regularly, it is not  essential, nor even conjoined to a great education in every case.

While some students will profit from regular attendance, others might be just as well, or even better served, if that time is devoted to research, reading or some other opportunity of learning outside the classroom.

A quality education is like a recipe. What works for one might not work as well for another, and as any good cook knows; a little variation, a small personal touch here and there can improve the fare for one palate, and hinder it for another.
Click to expand...

I do agree that such a policy should apply to all in similar situations.

In theory I mostly agree with your point about a best use of a student's time. However, 2 problems arise. 1) My personal experience (15 years) is that it is a minority of students that use the time accruing from missing class to undertake other educational activities related to that course. They may be doing things of value but I can show a very strong correlation between attendance and learning the material that I'm responsible for delivering. 2) Students are often not the best judge of what is in their best interests from a learning perspective. Just as a doctor will prescribe medicine and certain behaviors, the success of the treatment lies in the patient following through. While the patient has the "right" to not follow those instructions, it is still the doctor's responsibility to suggest them and provide motivation to the patient to do so. My "hypocratic oath" if you will is to take steps to best help students achieve the educational objectives of the course.

The problem in practice is also, which classes are the ones to miss? In effect, you don't know until the class has already taken place. Since my classes are interactive, there are learning opportunities that occur in class that are not reproducible. Further, I cannot selectively change rules for certain students who instead of coming to class may choose to do some outside research. This would be considered discriminatory - setting different standards. Yes different students have differing learning styles but the adaptation in my situation happens with individual projects, meetings outside of class etc.

Believe me, it would be much easier on me to not require attendance and take the attitude that the student can choose how and when to participate in class. In effect, if they don't want to come to class, screw 'em - it's their loss. If I did that however, I would not be fulfilling my obligations.

Finally, I'd be glad to continue this discussion but it's probably more appropriate for the Pub. If it gets moved then we can continue.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top