Let's talk polling

#1

lawgator1

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#1
Trump this morning cited Rasmussen approval numbers at 50 % (its actually 49 %, but who's counting). We have frequently had this debate.

It seems like the best approach is to take the average of the polls, as does RCP, and look at trends. Of note as to Rasmussen, which is favored by Fox and Trump, they are included in the RCP. But, Rasmussen especially of late has been way off the mark.

Just because a pollster’s figures don’t agree with other polling doesn’t mean that the polls are wrong. They could be tracking a trend that others aren’t seeing. Happily, we can evaluate Rasmussen’s accuracy against a verifiable recent benchmark: the midterm elections.


Democrats won 53.4 percent of the national House vote as of writing to the Republicans' 44.9 percent, a gap of 8.5 points. We can compare that with generic ballot polling, a poll question that asks voters which party they prefer in a generic House contest. The final RealClearPolitics average of polls gave the Democrats a 7.3-point advantage, meaning that the average was off by 1.2 points.


Rasmussen’s final poll had the Republicans with an advantage in House contests of one point. Rasmussen missed the result by 9.5 points.


So, the average poll gave the Dems a 7.3 point advantage and it ended up being 8.5. points. Rasmussen, which gave the GOP a 1 point advantage skewed the average down, and was WAY off -- almost ten points.

If you translate that over to the Trump approval rating, its more like 40 % approve, and of course that makes sense when you consider that averages showing him at 42 % or thereabouts are skewed again by Rasmussen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cientist-donald-trump/?utm_term=.2d59d2f33cdc
 
#4
#4
I'll bite, @lawgator1

Polls are essentially useless in today's highly charged political world. Either people aren't giving straight answers because they are fearful of being labeled racist/sexist/homophobic/etc or they just don't answer period.

/thread
 
#5
#5
I'll bite, @lawgator1

Polls are essentially useless in today's highly charged political world. Either people aren't giving straight answers because they are fearful of being labeled racist/sexist/homophobic/etc or they just don't answer period.

/thread


I really think it has to do with mechanics. Sampling procedures are just not accurate. In fairness to Rasmussen, that seems to be a problem for everyone. On the other hand, I do think Rasmussen is intentionally skewing its sampling process to promote the narrative that the GOP/Trump is doing better than it is. Sort of use the poll results to pull the train.
 
#6
#6
I really think it has to do with mechanics. Sampling procedures are just not accurate. In fairness to Rasmussen, that seems to be a problem for everyone. On the other hand, I do think Rasmussen is intentionally skewing its sampling process to promote the narrative that the GOP/Trump is doing better than it is. Sort of use the poll results to pull the train.

Or...

Polling is just completely inaccurate these days as I specified...
 
#7
#7
Or...

Polling is just completely inaccurate these days as I specified...

RCP average was off by a little over one point.

Rasmussen was off by almost ten points.

Trump is touting the one that makes him look good, but which most likely to be wrong, and most likely to be wrong by the widest margin.

Why he does these things, I dunno.' I mean, he has to know he is going to be mocked for it. And rightfully so.
 
#8
#8
RCP average was off by a little over one point.

Rasmussen was off by almost ten points.

Trump is touting the one that makes him look good, but which most likely to be wrong, and most likely to be wrong by the widest margin.

Why he does these things, I dunno.' I mean, he has to know he is going to be mocked for it. And rightfully so.

Or...

Polling sucks these days...
 
#9
#9
Trump is touting the one that makes him look good, but which most likely to be wrong, and most likely to be wrong by the widest margin.

If he wants to ignore most of the polls and believe just one, more power to him. It's not going to make him any more or less popular.
 
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#10
#10
I really think it has to do with mechanics. Sampling procedures are just not accurate. In fairness to Rasmussen, that seems to be a problem for everyone. On the other hand, I do think Rasmussen is intentionally skewing its sampling process to promote the narrative that the GOP/Trump is doing better than it is. Sort of use the poll results to pull the train.
One of the great untruths of the 2016 campaign is that "the polls were wrong." People's interpretations of some polls and statistical data were wrong, but the polls themselves gave a fairly good indication of the odds of each candidate of winning.

On the eve of the election, Hillary Clinton had a 2-4% lead in the national poll. She won the popular vote by 2.1%. That poll was basically dead on, but also meaningless. It isn't how the election is decided.

On the eve of the election, Donald trailed within the MOE or had a lead in virtually all the states that would decide the election (Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin). Now, it would have been a stretch to expect him to win all, or almost all, of those states. The polling was very close. That's why he was rightly considered an underdog, but he should have never been as big of an underdog as he was. The way I saw it, there was no statistical reason for the NYT to have Hillary at or above a 90% chance of winning all summer long and right up until election day. I never one thing in the polling that indicated that. If you looked at an average of polling in the swing states (RCP has a great one) and tracked it over time, about the highest chance of winning you could give Hillary was 75%. Personally, on the eve of the election, I figured she had about a 60-65% chance of winning. Based on the fact that Donald had to thread the needle and win all/almost all of the swing states, while Hillary only needed a few. That meant Donald had a 30-35% chance of winning, so while he beat the odds, it shouldn't have come as this incredible shock. He was not a 5 TD underdog that won the game - he was more like a 10 or 14 point underdog. Still an upset, but not as incredible as it seemed.

For Hillary to have had a 90%+ chance of winning (sometimes, the NYT Upshot poll was giving her a 98-99% chance of victory), she would have to have had consistent, large, outside-the-MOE leads in all the key states. She never had those. This "the polling was so wrong" narrative I think is an attempt by some in the media to make sense of the fact that a person of Donald Trump's demeanor and temperament won the presidency. A lot of inside the Beltway types still haven't come to grips with it, so they conclude things like the polling must have been wrong.

Overall, the key is to look at an average of polling over time, not just one in particular, and in a Presidential election you have to look at an average of polls in states that are going to decide the election. People got way too hung up and read way too much into the results of the national poll, or the results of one particular poll in one particular state. For example, Hillary did much better than previous Republicans did in Georgia, and pre-election polling was indicative of that. However, I saw a bunch of thinkpieces saying that this indicated support for Donald was low in a traditional red state, and this portended doom for him in the general election, because if he's a little weaker in a place like Georgia he'll get killed in Pennsylvania or Michigan. It was a dead wrong conclusion drawn from a poll that was actually accurate.

I think the same thing happened with Brexit polling in the UK too. On the eve of that vote, the polling was within the MOE. When "leave" won, the media seemed absolutely floored, which I never understood because polling was indicating the entire time that it could go either way.
 
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#12
#12
They were the second most accurate in the last presidential election so you should probably stop bashing them
 

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