Let's Talk About Sin

#577
#577
Orange_Crush said:
You don't have to believe the following, of course. I am just posting the Bible to inform the theology.





People can use their intellect and figure out God's presence and divinity. We have a tendency to suppress that truth because we want to worship ourselves and serve our base desires. People who never heard the gospel are without excuse and know deep within they are drowning (sinful).

People who never heard the Bible are accused by their own consciences-- even if they never heard the Bible. If they heard the Bible, it's an added witness against them.

No one will be in Hell that doesn't absolutely deserve to be in Hell.
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If we want to serve ourselves, that sounds like an inherent flaw. Why did my perfect creator do such a sh!++y job and make me a self loving atheist?
 
#580
#580
Vol8188 said:
If we want to serve ourselves, that sounds like an inherent flaw. Why did my perfect creator do such a sh!++y job and make me a self loving atheist?
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He didn't. Your mom and dad did.

Not being a smart***. I'm saying God didn't create you like you are. Your parents did. And their parents made them.

The only people made directly by God were Adam and Eve. His creation was perfect. They ruined it. He didn't.
 
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#581
#581
Brave Volunteer said:
There's only one problem with your analogy. The 1000 people treading water would KNOW they are drowning. In that example yes, it would be a stubborn fool who would choose not to accept the help. In the case of spiritual salvation, not everyone feels that way. Not everyone feels some need to be "saved" by a supreme being. Many go through life just fine without religion, without faith, and live happy normal lives. Just because an evangelist "witnesses" to them and tells them that they need Jesus I don't consider them fools if they don't listen.
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Brave,
Thanks for your response. One thing about analogies is that none are perfect. I was giving an example not to explain all people, but those who claim that they won't believe because of some perceived unfairness to people that they actually don't give a rip about.

Next, your post invokes a very common notion of moral relativism in that life is all about finding happiness. Not sure your point? I'm sure that Donald Trump is happy. Hell, he's happier than 99.999999% of the world's population. But how does that address whether or not he, or anyone else needs saving? A sick person can "feel" fine. Their inability, or unwillingness to recognize the symptoms doesn't change the fact that they ARE sick.

BTW, I totally disagree with your assessment of people not feeling the need to be saved. Everyone, with the exclusion of the self-deluded and sociopaths are trying to find salvation in one form or another. Perhaps a topic for another thread. And even if they weren't, what does their moral incompetency have to do with whether they ACTUALLY need saving or not?

Your example of the preacher is well taken. Here is my question. Should people listen to the truth? Does truth matter? If so, should people try to know it and pursue it?
If no, then nothing matters including our dialogue. We'd be better to get a beer and discuss football. If yes, then do you honestly believe that God will send a sincere truth seeker to Hell for no other reason than where they were born? Let's see, God can create the universe from nothing, raise the dead to life, but He can't reach Apu, who is sincerely seeking the truth.

As Crush stated, the Bible deals with this, and the fact is, as we've seen demonstrated here, many are not interested in the truth. And even if you threw them the life preserver, and they KNEW their predicament, they would stubbornly refuse rescue, because God will NOT first bow to them.

Let's look at Hebrews 11. We have a list of people who trusted what they KNEW was true from God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate they KNEW of the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus. They simply trusted what God HAD revealed to them. And it says that THEIR FAITH was counted as righteousness. In saying this, I believe that no one comes to the Father except through Christ. And I know that Jesus described Himself as THE TRUTH. Not a truth, or a source of truth, but the very source and nature of truth itself. On my journey I have met truth seekers and truth suppressors.

The question isn't whether God will reveal truth to people, but what they will do when presented with the truth. I'm not concerned with ignorance, but those who shake their fist at God(truth) in stubborn, self-worshipping arrogance.
 
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#582
#582
Orange_Crush said:
He didn't. Your mom and dad did.

Not being a smart***. I'm saying God didn't create you like you are. Your parents did. And their parents made them.

The only people made directly by God were Adam and Eve. His creation was perfect. They ruined it. He didn't.
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When were Adam and Eve around say.. in relation to the dinosaurs?

Was Eve really made from a babyback rib?


Was there a fruit that you could eat that gave you all kinds if cool knowledge?


Just getting a benchmark of how crazy you actually are.
 
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#583
#583
Vol8188 said:
If we want to serve ourselves, that sounds like an inherent flaw. Why did my perfect creator do such a sh!++y job and make me a self loving atheist?
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If you're any atheist then you don't believe there is a God. So how can you blame him for anything?
 
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#584
#584
BigOrangeTrain said:
If you're any atheist then you don't believe there is a God. So how can you blame him for anything?
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Did I ever proclaim that I believe in a god. I was simply challenging his assertion that his god is perfect, which the Old Testament clearly disproves.
 
#585
#585
MercyPercy said:
When were Adam and Eve around say.. in relation to the dinosaurs?

Was Eve really made from a babyback rib?


Was there a fruit that you could eat that gave you all kinds if cool knowledge?


Just getting a benchmark of how crazy you actually are.
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1. Nobody knows. The events of the Old Testament, especially in regards to the garden of Eden cannot be dated.

2. Well God created the whole universe so fashioning a human from a rib bone is not that difficult. Also can you say with any kind of certainty that it didn't happen?

3. To answer this question you really need at the very least a rudimentary understanding of God's sovereignty, sin, spirituality and the flesh. Obviously you don't have the knowledge to answer this, thus this question is baiting and asinine.

If God doesn't exist and therefore Christ never existed, I wonder why BC and AD are still used as dating methods? I guess many Anthropologists, Archaeologists and other scientists are just stupid.
 
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#587
#587
BigOrangeTrain said:
1. Nobody knows. The events of the Old Testament, especially in regards to the garden of Eden cannot be dated.

2. Well God created the whole universe so fashioning a human from a rib bone is not that difficult. Also can you say with any kind of certainty that it didn't happen?

3. To answer this question you really need at the very least a rudimentary understanding of God's sovereignty, sin, spirituality and the flesh. Obviously you don't have the knowledge to answer this, thus this question is baiting and asinine.

If God doesn't exist and therefore Christ never existed, I wonder why BC and AD are still used as dating methods? I guess many Anthropologists, Archaeologists and other scientists are just stupid.
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There could have been a dude named Jesus preaching around that time. That doesn't mean he was a god.
 
#594
#594
BigOrangeTrain said:
So if you don't believe in God then how can you argue anything pertaining to him?
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Lol I cannot argue that you belief in god is illogical, because I do not believe in god?

Are only believers of Santa allowed to tell others santa is not real?
 
#595
#595
BigOrangeTrain said:
If God doesn't exist and therefore Christ never existed, I wonder why BC and AD are still used as dating methods? I guess many Anthropologists, Archaeologists and other scientists are just stupid.
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HOLY. CRAP.

Checkmate atheists!
 
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#596
#596
Vol8188 said:
Lol I cannot argue that you belief in god is illogical, because I do not believe in god?

Are only believers of Santa allowed to tell others santa is not real?
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There's the santa thing again. I'm starting to think you're not a troll. You may be stupid though
 
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#598
#598
MercyPercy said:
That was probably my favorite part too.
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He's got us heathens on lock down! I read that and immediately felt like I just got decleated by Eric Berry after a late throw over the middle.
 
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