Let's Talk About Sin

#1
volinbham

volinbham

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#1
Looks like the PC thread and A&E thread are devolving into a "what is sin" debate so I figured we ought to have a separate thread.

1. Is there universal sin (across all religions/non religions)

2. Do atheists believe in sin?

3. Do you accept all that is labeled as sin in your religion as sin?

4. Is a sin in your religion still a sin if committed by someone outside your religion?

5. Are all sins created equal?

6. ?
 
#3
#3
Here's another question - is violation of religious practice a sin for someone who practices other parts of that religion.

So if a Jew eats pork, a Catholic has a burger on Friday, a Baptist slow dances with his GF, etc.
 
#4
#4
Is anything and everything mentioned in your preferred religious text as a sin actually a sin?

IOW - once a sin always a sin.
 
#5
#5
My friend is Muslim and strongly believes in Jinns which are basically Muslim demons to an extent. He says, whenever you see one, you should say "bismallah" and they will go away. Then I asked him, what if they are not Muslim and they see a Jinn? He said he doesn't know. He says you have to be really religious for Jinns to come to you. He then told me stories about how Jinns will come into your room while you sleep an start doing things, even laying on you, and your body cannot move whatsoever. Then the premed student that I am investigated this, and came across the concept of sleep paralysis. Which if anyone want to google, fits the criteria of what my friend was talking about through a scientific explanation. I came to the realization that if someone was not exposed to the idea of Jinns or Demons(my friend is really religious), there is a much less likelihood of them going through vivid dreams involving demons in comparison to a priest.

Anecdote over

Relating to the conversation, I think the idea of sin at a global level is arbitrary.
 
#7
#7
I guess it depends on the context. Is "sin" purely a religious concept? If so everything from murder to eating pork is a sin.

Is "sin" purely a moral concept? If so then all sins are not created equal and something like using the lord's name in vain is a worthless precept with no bearing on humanity.
 
#9
#9
Persian Vol said:
My friend is Muslim and strongly believes in Jinns which are basically Muslim demons to an extent. He says, whenever you see one, you should say "bismallah" and they will go away. Then I asked him, what if they are not Muslim and they see a Jinn? He said he doesn't know. He says you have to be really religious for Jinns to come to you. He then told me stories about how Jinns will come into your room while you sleep an start doing things, even laying on you, and your body cannot move whatsoever. Then the premed student that I am investigated this, and came across the concept of sleep paralysis. Which if anyone want to google, fits the criteria of what my friend was talking about through a scientific explanation. I came to the realization that if someone was not exposed to the idea of Jinns or Demons(my friend is really religious), there is a much less likelihood of them going through vivid dreams involving demons in comparison to a priest.

Anecdote over

Relating to the conversation, I think the idea of sin at a global level is arbitrary.
Click to expand...

Not to derail the thread but I have to share...

As someone who has suffered sleep paralysis, yes what he described is exactly the symptoms I had. I won't lie, before I figured out what it was, it was a very scary experience and had me questioning how I felt about ghosts/spirits/hauntings. Basically I couldn't move, heard what I can only best describe as "demon voices" and felt like some kind of entities were in the room and even standing on me. After I researched it, now when I have an episode (which is rare), I merely start trying to move my feet and it "wakes" me up, and I ignore everything my senses are telling me (though the having trouble breathing part still sucks).
 
#13
#13
I think an interesting question about sin would be, "do you believe your preferred deity punishes sin, and if so do you believe it is punishes during or after life?"

One of the most interesting parts of the bible is the dramatic change in this aspect. In the Old Testament all sin was punished during life. Then in the New Testament the concept of hell and punishment during the after life emerges.
 
#14
#14
VolsSportsFan said:
Not to derail the thread but I have to share...

As someone who has suffered sleep paralysis, yes what he described is exactly the symptoms I had. I won't lie, before I figured out what it was, it was a very scary experience and had me questioning how I felt about ghosts/spirits/hauntings. Basically I couldn't move, heard what I can only best describe as "demon voices" and felt like some kind of entities were in the room and even standing on me. After I researched it, now when I have an episode (which is rare), I merely start trying to move my feet and it "wakes" me up, and I ignore everything my senses are telling me (though the having trouble breathing part still sucks).
Click to expand...

I experience sleep paralysis on a regular basis. Originally it was scary, but now I actually look forward to it. It's like an adrenaline high, if I were to compare it to anything.
 
#15
#15
VolsSportsFan said:
Not to derail the thread but I have to share...

As someone who has suffered sleep paralysis, yes what he described is exactly the symptoms I had. I won't lie, before I figured out what it was, it was a very scary experience and had me questioning how I felt about ghosts/spirits/hauntings. Basically I couldn't move, heard what I can only best describe as "demon voices" and felt like some kind of entities were in the room and even standing on me. After I researched it, now when I have an episode (which is rare), I merely start trying to move my feet and it "wakes" me up, and I ignore everything my senses are telling me (though the having trouble breathing part still sucks).
Click to expand...

I had the old hag syndrome once. I believe that it is demonic. There is no logical explanation for people all seeing a nearly identical creature while experiencing it.
 
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#16
#16
Anyone ever have dreams of flying?(I mean actually having wings on your back) Sigmon Freaud interpreted it as having a high sex drive.. I don't know that I agree, wet dreams would make more sense in that case to me. Anyways.. That's the most reacuring dreams I have.
 
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#17
#17
davethevol said:
I had the old hag syndrome once. I believe that it is demonic. There is no logical explanation for people all seeing a nearly identical creature while experiencing it.
Click to expand...

Two of my episodes stood out.

One, I did actually see the "old hag". And this was before I knew anything about the syndrome or that it was a commonly described occurrence. It was only for a few seconds, but I vividly remember seeing her at the foot of the bed.

Two, the other the best way I can describe it was "out of body" experience. For about 15 seconds or so, I "watched" myself sleep, and was able to go into the next room and "see" my wife sitting on the couch watching TV with our dog. I was able to see the TV and a clock to see the time. I woke up a few minutes later, in the same position I was in when I "saw" myself, got up and went into the next room and my wife was on couch with the dog, in the same position, watching the show I saw in my experience, and the clock about 3 minutes later.

I'll leave it at that. Whether that stuff was real, or I created a very vivid dream from my other senses, I don't know. That was the only time that has happened when I've had a sleep paralysis episode.
 
#18
#18
Persian Vol said:
My friend is Muslim and strongly believes in Jinns which are basically Muslim demons to an extent. He says, whenever you see one, you should say "bismallah" and they will go away. Then I asked him, what if they are not Muslim and they see a Jinn? He said he doesn't know. He says you have to be really religious for Jinns to come to you. He then told me stories about how Jinns will come into your room while you sleep an start doing things, even laying on you, and your body cannot move whatsoever. Then the premed student that I am investigated this, and came across the concept of sleep paralysis. Which if anyone want to google, fits the criteria of what my friend was talking about through a scientific explanation. I came to the realization that if someone was not exposed to the idea of Jinns or Demons(my friend is really religious), there is a much less likelihood of them going through vivid dreams involving demons in comparison to a priest.

Anecdote over

Relating to the conversation, I think the idea of sin at a global level is arbitrary.
Click to expand...

People who believe this are the same people that believe when a male is born satan is in his butthole and the only way to get Satan out is with the ejaculate of another man. Same goes for girls except Satan hides in their vagina. Didn't make this up..there are videos of Clerics preaching this crap. I guess its a not so clever way to scapegoat rape and pedophilia.
 
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#19
#19
volinbham said:
Looks like the PC thread and A&E thread are devolving into a "what is sin" debate so I figured we ought to have a separate thread.

1. Is there universal sin (across all religions/non religions)

2. Do atheists believe in sin?

3. Do you accept all that is labeled as sin in your religion as sin?

4. Is a sin in your religion still a sin if committed by someone outside your religion?

5. Are all sins created equal?

6. ?
Click to expand...

1. No, each religion and idealism comes with its own set of moral rules, based on the people's beliefs, societal norms and general desire to live in a stable and safe community.

2. Depends, no two atheists have the exact same beliefs just as no two Christians, Muslims, ect. believe everything the exact same way (see the many denominations and branches of each faith). In the sense that a sin is a moral wrong, only sociopaths and people lacking emotions for one reason or the other don't believe in any taboos, if for any other reason people don't want 'sins' to be perpetrated against themselves.

In the sense of a governing moral code set forth by a supreme being or intelligence, I doubt any truth atheist believes in them as that would contradict their view on deities.

3. Can not comment as I belong to no religion, though I strictly believe and adhere to a code of common decency as a human being trying to live a peaceful life in the company of other such individuals. Though my ideas of right and wrong probably do not match most others, I completely believe many sins set forth in any scripture are pure ****.

4. Each religion is a set of standards and beliefs a group of people adhere to. If someone truly believes something is a sin, it makes no logical sense that just cause someone doesn't believe as you do that they do not commit sins.

5. In the idea that sins are a moral wrong committed, no, some of course are far worse. Stealing from someone is bad; raping a woman is terrible.

In the context of most religions, sins are equal. Coveting your neighbors wife and murdering her are the same, abominations to God's code of ethics (Christianity being the example here)

6. !
 
#21
#21
VOLinFL_ said:
2. Depends, no two atheists have the exact same beliefs just as no two Christians, Muslims, ect. believe everything the exact same way (see the many denominations and branches of each faith). In the sense that a sin is a moral wrong, only sociopaths and people lacking emotions for one reason or the other don't believe in any taboos, if for any other reason people don't want 'sins' to be perpetrated against themselves.
Click to expand...

That's confusing, an atheist is someone who who rejects the belief in deities.

They may have used different avenues of reason to arrive at their conclusion and of course there can be "degrees" of skepticism (e.g. agnostics), but all atheist's hold the absence of belief, that is - there are no god(s).

I dunno, I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that statement. All the rest is pretty spot on.
 
#22
#22
Septic said:
That's confusing, an atheist is someone who who rejects the belief in deities.

They may have used different avenues of reason to arrive at their conclusion and of course there can be "degrees" of skepticism (e.g. agnostics), but all atheist's hold the absence of belief, that is - there are no god(s).

I dunno, I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that statement. All the rest is pretty spot on.
Click to expand...


By beliefs I meant personal moral codes, not belief in some kind of god or higher intelligence. While not a sin in the religious sense, atheists have their own personal ideas of whats morally wrong. Some may believe in decent acts, peaceful living, ect. while another may, perhaps because of the absence of God and a guiding force, think no act in of itself is 'wrong.'
 
#23
#23
Anyone who thinks all sin are equal are fools.

If I kill a hundred people in cold blood, torturing them while I do it, you tell me that it's the same as telling my girlfriend I didn't get her something expensive for her birthday when I really did? No.

As for the rest, I think religious people especially have a hard time grasping that morality can exist without the fear of punishment or the idea of "sin." Personally, I find it far more impressive and meaningful to do good deeds (or not do bad ones) because you have a sense of morality compared to doing it out of fear of punishment in the next life.
 
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#24
#24
Cyclopskiller said:
Anyone ever have dreams of flying?(I mean actually having wings on your back) Sigmon Freaud interpreted it as having a high sex drive.. I don't know that I agree, wet dreams would make more sense in that case to me. Anyways.. That's the most reacuring dreams I have.
Click to expand...

I do..of flying into an orgy of Swedish lesbian bikini models looking for a chance to incorporate a guy into said orgy.
 
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#25
#25
Daloth said:
Anyone who thinks all sin are equal are fools.

If I kill a hundred people in cold blood, torturing them while I do it, you tell me that it's the same as telling my girlfriend I didn't get her something expensive for her birthday when I really did? No.

As for the rest, I think religious people especially have a hard time grasping that morality can exist without the fear of punishment or the idea of "sin." Personally, I find it far more impressive and meaningful to do good deeds (or not do bad ones) because you have a since of morality compared to doing it out of fear of punishment in the next life.
Click to expand...

+1.
 
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