Let's be honest

[Bob Neyland]

We fans have hung in there for the past 15 years with really nothing showing things WILL EVER improve. We have bought tickets and concessions, watched on TV, bought merchandise, but we are as irrelevant today as we were when Dooley was coaching. Things are not going to get better. They really aren't. If fans will be honest with themselves, they know this. What can the AD do to change our minds?

If you really want to be honest, Tennessee is a lifetime 0.681 program and 0.671 since 1970. That means 7-8 wins a year.

Is that so hard to figure? Georgia, Alabama, and Florida are 3 tough games - given their up more than they are down, UT is 8 W's. Add in a tough loss elsewhere and there you have it.

Still, those programs can and do dip. And when they do, UT has to duke it out with LSU or Auburn for what's left.

So, if we are really honest - UT is an 8-3 program that may win the SEC once every 10 years. That's being honest.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Years like the past 3 are why fans are in an uproar. This 3 year span has been the weakest SEC east I have ever seen and somehow we haven't even been in the running for the SEC East. That is a problem.

We haven't won the SEC since 1998. It has been 10 years since we won the east.

 

[Bob Neyland]

Years like the past 3 are why fans are in an uproar. This 3 year span has been the weakest SEC east I have ever seen and somehow we haven't even been in the running for the SEC East. That is a problem.

We haven't won the SEC since 1998. It has been 10 years since we won the east.

Totally agree. This WAS the SEC down cycle and the Vols should have been SEC East champs. This is what you live for and Butch & Co. completely missed it.

I wonder, in retrospect, if he really understood that? Some coaches don't pay attention to that and just try to play every game instead of looking at the megacycles.

 

[Tennessee'83]

If you really want to be honest, Tennessee is a lifetime 0.681 program and 0.671 since 1970. That means 7-8 wins a year.

Is that so hard to figure? Georgia, Alabama, and Florida are 3 tough games - given their up more than they are down, UT is 8 W's. Add in a tough loss elsewhere and there you have it.

Still, those programs can and do dip. And when they do, UT has to duke it out with LSU or Auburn for what's left.

So, if we are really honest - UT is an 8-3 program that may win the SEC once every 10 years. That's being honest.

You're right about the long term success that we've had. Depending on who our out of conference games are, we should win all 4. At least 3 of them every year. Throw in 1-3 conference losses a year and on average we should be able to get to 9-10 wins each year, IMO. Every once in a while 11-1 shouldn't be a pipe dream and every once in a while 8 wins will happen. Realistically I think we should be winning the East as often as FL or UGA does.

My frustration with 9-4 the last two years is that in 2015 we had Oklahoma beat and CBJ had DeBord play not to lose. We had FL beat and on our last series before FL scored to go ahead, CBJ had DeBord call three straight runs and we had to punt from deep in our own territory. Then on FL's 4th & 18, we have not one but two spies playing Will Grier like he's going to scramble and pick up 18 yards. We should of had an extra DB instead of two spies. My point is, with a competent staff that same team should have been 11-3.

2016...see above...just change the opponents

 

[Godfatha]

The Vol ‘Legend’ Majors didnt win 10 games for over 10 years. Im not saying throw in the towel, but, while Saban is coaching its going to be rough for everyone.

Majors had a game or two less to work with. Add another cupcake win to Majors years and it looks much better

 

[Volview]

Bud. I remember the last Fulmer teams, as well the Dewlee teams. they were horrible. Quite honestly we were outgunned when Kiffin was here. Butch has brought us back.

He deserves a chance to fix it. This year.

He needs to turn this around fast...it looked like the players quit after the butt fumble.

 

[JoAllan]

We fans have hung in there for the past 15 years with really nothing showing things WILL EVER improve. We have bought tickets and concessions, watched on TV, bought merchandise, but we are as irrelevant today as we were when Dooley was coaching. Things are not going to get better. They really aren't. If fans will be honest with themselves, they know this. What can the AD do to change our minds?

I don't know about you but 01-07 was pretty darn good.........especially since what we have had since.

Just because Tennessee has had some bad to not great coaching hires over the past 8 and into 9 years now does not mean things can not get better.

Tennessee has been recruiting very well, has been winning bowls, and has had two 9 win seasons in a row..........those are just a start of getting back. If Tennessee can make the right coaching hire, I think most fans expectations can be realized very soon.

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

There is no coach that has been available to us that would have beat Georgia and none that will beat Alabama this year. The Florida loss was a fluke. Massachusetts is not that bad a program this year. Given these facts, we should really consider ourselves having a good year.

I expect to give USCjr a run for their money and we have a good chance against both Kentucky and Vanderbilt University.

Clearly we're not a program most flagship universities strive to be, but we could be worse.

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

If you really want to be honest, Tennessee is a lifetime 0.681 program and 0.671 since 1970. That means 7-8 wins a year.

Is that so hard to figure? Georgia, Alabama, and Florida are 3 tough games - given their up more than they are down, UT is 8 W's. Add in a tough loss elsewhere and there you have it.

Still, those programs can and do dip. And when they do, UT has to duke it out with LSU or Auburn for what's left.

So, if we are really honest - UT is an 8-3 program that may win the SEC once every 10 years. That's being honest.

:worship:

Do you mind if I copy this and paste it as a reply to literally EVERY post on VolNation for the past 5 years?

 

[Vols1891]

You guys are all missing the much bigger problem. The key to our program’s success is finding a way to stop or reverse the voodoo curse that Rohan Davey’s mom placed on the Tennessee football program during the 2001 SEC Championship Game. Butch must send someone to Haiti to study voodoo and learn what must be done to reverse the curse.

 

[JoAllan]

There is no coach that has been available to us that would have beat Georgia and none that will beat Alabama this year. The Florida loss was a fluke. Massachusetts is not that bad a program this year. Given these facts, we should really consider ourselves having a good year.

I expect to give USCjr a run for their money and we have a good chance against both Kentucky and Vanderbilt University.

Clearly we're not a program most flagship universities strive to be, but we could be worse.

UMass is 0-6, with a loss to an FCS team, Tennessee scored the least amount of points on Umass as they have given up all year........yea UMass it REAL BAD this year.

Maybe no coach could have helped Tennessee to beat GA......I cant refute or dispute; however there are many coaches out there that with in 5 years, could have gotten Tennessee into a position not to lose the game 41-0. There are many coaches that could have Tennessee into position to beat Bama and anyone else within 5 years............not saying it would have happened, but it certainly could have with the right coach at the helm.

 

[Poppa T]

Are you quoting me? Maybe i said he was ‘the guy’? Let me clarify...he has earned the chance to make it right.

And, don’t be surprised IF 7-5 does cut it.

3 wins and 5 losses in SEC (again) will not cut it. IMO. If you can't win your SEC games, all the rest is BS. I was around for Bill Battle, he had a winning SEC record and we let him go.

5 years with a losing SEC record, it is time for him to move on.

 

[alaVOL]

Watch ol Saban let us hang within a TD just to help BJ keep his job.

In the first 5 mins MAYBE....lol:

 

[ajvol01]

Bud. I remember the last Fulmer teams, as well the Dewlee teams. they were horrible. Quite honestly we were outgunned when Kiffin was here. Butch has brought us back.

He deserves a chance to fix it. This year.

Problem with that is Butch can't get out of his own damn way.

We've seen 5 games in 2017 with some of the ugliest football imaginable and "he deserves time to fix it"?

Why did he recruit/start QBs incapable of running his offense (Worley/Peterman/Dormady)?

He appears to be unwilling or unable to modify the offense to fit the personnel.

Let's watch the next 3 games and then see if you still think he deserves a chance to fix it.

The locker room issues have continued from last season. While everyone said Hurd was the problem.

I think Butch has truly lost the respect of the team and will never be able to recover. IMO Butch is out of time.

 

[ajvol01]

No we arent as irrelevant as with Dooley. Thats just a dumb statement. Dooley never had us ranked in the top 15. Nor did Dools win a bowl game, let alone 3. I get most of us are upset with Nutch and want him gone, but if ypu are being truly honest, then you cannot say we are just like the Dooley years. Because its just demonstrably false.

On a national Or SEC level, Tennessee football is as big a punchline today as it was in 2012.

 

[Wylo]

If you really want to be honest, Tennessee is a lifetime 0.681 program and 0.671 since 1970. That means 7-8 wins a year.

Is that so hard to figure? Georgia, Alabama, and Florida are 3 tough games - given their up more than they are down, UT is 8 W's. Add in a tough loss elsewhere and there you have it.

Still, those programs can and do dip. And when they do, UT has to duke it out with LSU or Auburn for what's left.

So, if we are really honest - UT is an 8-3 program that may win the SEC once every 10 years. That's being honest.

So let's accept mediocrity because a hundred plus years of the PAST. YIPPPPPPIE!

 

[tastycar]

We haven't played big games since early 2000's. But a true Vol can't quit on their team... look at Clemson, they sucked for 30 yrs. Bama was very average in mid 90s to mid 2000s. I just think it will take hiring a halfway competent coach. Gotta get some one with SEC success on their resume.

Sucking for 30 years is unacceptable. Things take time, not eternities.

 

[igotworms]

So let's accept mediocrity because a hundred plus years of the PAST. YIPPPPPPIE!

It's almost as if they walk around proud of being avèrage
Must have miserably unhappy wives too

 

[DaUndergroundMan]

If you really want to be honest, Tennessee is a lifetime 0.681 program and 0.671 since 1970. That means 7-8 wins a year.

Is that so hard to figure? Georgia, Alabama, and Florida are 3 tough games - given their up more than they are down, UT is 8 W's. Add in a tough loss elsewhere and there you have it.

Still, those programs can and do dip. And when they do, UT has to duke it out with LSU or Auburn for what's left.

So, if we are really honest - UT is an 8-3 program that may win the SEC once every 10 years. That's being honest.

681 is a really really good historical win percentage, it puts you near the top. Its an average of 8.17 wins in a 12 game regular season. Thats an excellent AVERAGE. Alabama is .722 thats amazing right? Ready for a surprise?

Its an average of 8.66 in a 12 game season. Let's be honest historically Alabama is gonna win 8.5 games out of 12. While we win 8. That's the way averages work. So Alabama should settle for someone like Butch right too hes only a couple of games off their historical average.

Well Butch has averaged 6.75 wins in a 12 game season over his first 4 years with us. With a .563 winning percentage. He's historically bad for a Vol coach. Downright sucky. And we deserve better. Lost 7 of 12, then 6 of 12, then 4, then 4. His SEC RECORD is way worse than what tennessee is used to. 14 wins 20 losses.

He averages 3.5 SEC wins a year over first four years. And 4.5 Sec losses a year. Thats horrible. He gets a bye for this season so far, since its not over, but with his 0-2 start, hes got his work cut out if he wants to match his career average...lmao. over the next 6 sec games where will he get his 3-4 wins required to maintain his tradition of suck? That could be tough.

He's a con man who's sold so much future, we keep giving him mulligans on past and present.

 

[volgrad500]

Butch has us losing bigger to worse teams. Dooley's SEC was murderer's row compared to the pillow fight we've got now.

 

[apevol]

If you really want to be honest, Tennessee is a lifetime 0.681 program and 0.671 since 1970. That means 7-8 wins a year.

Is that so hard to figure? Georgia, Alabama, and Florida are 3 tough games - given their up more than they are down, UT is 8 W's. Add in a tough loss elsewhere and there you have it.

Still, those programs can and do dip. And when they do, UT has to duke it out with LSU or Auburn for what's left.

So, if we are really honest - UT is an 8-3 program that may win the SEC once every 10 years. That's being honest.

You're a *****.

 

[piddler69]

I agree sergeant carter has elevated the program since he arrived but it is time for him to go. The past 2 seasons could have easily been 7 wins instead of 9 if luck hadn't been on our side. He has a ton of talent to work with but can't seem to get the potential out of the players. I think Currie should take a long look at Mike Leach. He made Texas Tech a winner and is doing the same at Washington State.

 

[JoAllan]

I agree sergeant carter has elevated the program since he arrived but it is time for him to go. The past 2 seasons could have easily been 7 wins instead of 9 if luck hadn't been on our side. He has a ton of talent to work with but can't seem to get the potential out of the players. I think Currie should take a long look at Mike Leach. He made Texas Tech a winner and is doing the same at Washington State.

welcome

Not trying to be rude, but this is just my 2 cents:

Leach is a builder, and can coach teams to an 8 or 9 win season most of the time......once he has built the program.

Leach has never shown that he can do anything more. Leach has had 1 season of better than 9 wins in his 16 year head coaching career.........he is also .605 for his career. Butch Jones has shown he can build something, but he has also shown he cannot coach a team he has built to more than 8 or 9 wins. Not saying Butch is better or even as good as Leach, because I think most people (including my self) think Leach is much better. But nothing in his entire career shows that Leach can do what Tennessee and the fans of Tennessee want.

 

[MemphisVol77]

And the "south will rise again" but its been 150 years and the only way we are rising is happening because them damn Yankees are seeing the light and moving here, because their northern world is going to crap. Now as for the Big Orange, We have just tried one of them "damn Yankees" o well, now what.

Minus the coaching you just described how Florida's program was created. As for coaching, they were smart enough to get a Tennessee native (may his cold dark heart burn in the 9th layer of hell for all eternity).

As for now what?
If our athletic department is willing to start the offer sheets with 5million per year coaches I'll be happy.

 

[GRN1926]

Dont you realize how easy it is to win a SEC title and NC title. If the AD would just bring in the posters from VN we would be undefeated for all eternity. They just keep hiring losers who try to coach on their own instead of just reading this forum and learning how to be the champs again.

Loser mentality right here folks. Name a point in time when the east division has been as bad. TN is trying not to be one of the worst teams in the conference. That is a real discussion. Year 5 and our coach has TN rates about 10th in the conference. But you guys are right, we're on the right track here. Let's continue doing exactly the same thing so we can maintain our spot as one of the worst teams in the sec