Lebron vs. Jordan

#126
#126
JZVOL said:
Truth. Players in the 80's/early 90's were better basketball players by far.

There weren't as many teams to water things down.

Are guys more athletic overall today? Yes, but they aren't better basketball players.

And this is coming from a 27 year old.
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Why do you say this? If you think the league is short on talent you must not be watching the same games I am.
 
#128
#128
GahLee said:
Glad you cleared it up for me...LeBron could average 40 back in the 80's...there isn't a player like him now, and there wasn't back then...6'8" 270 lbs...runs like a guard with the strength of a PF...I would love to have seen "The Bad Boys" try and play hard against him...would have been hilarious.
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Great argument... The Pistons, Lakers, Celtics would have destroyed the Cavs.
 
#129
#129
GahLee said:
Why do you say this? If you think the league is short on talent you must not be watching the same games I am.
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Talent as in athleticism, yes. The guys today are not close in terms of being basketball players.

Guys that are in the league now would not have made it in the 80's or early 90s because there are more teams.
 
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#130
#130
JZVOL said:
Great argument... The Pistons, Lakers, Celtics would have destroyed the Cavs.
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I'm not talking about the Cavs, I'm talking about LeBron...and you, nor anyone else knows for sure who would win...your " watered down" argument is absurd.
 
#131
#131
JZVOL said:
Talent as in athleticism, yes. The guys today are close in terms of being basketball players.

Guys that are in the league now would not have made it in the 80's or early 90s because there are more teams.
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Guys shoot just as well, just not mid range, I would bet money that if you went back and had the numbers, players back then didn't shoot a better percentage than they do now, if they did it was by a hair.

A lot of players don't seem like good players, as for as a skill set goes but I think that is because they are so freakishly athletic...plus ESPN and their Top 10 plays and constant loop of highlights makes guys want to play a flashy style.
 
#132
#132
GahLee said:
I'm not talking about the Cavs, I'm talking about LeBron...and you, nor anyone else knows for sure who would win...your " watered down" argument is absurd.
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There is a thing called team defense. The NBA plays 5 on 5 not one on one.

Every major sport is watered down, it is a fact.
 
#133
#133
GahLee said:
Guys shoot just as well, just not mid range, I would bet money that if you went back and had the numbers, players back then didn't shoot a better percentage than they do now, if they did it was by a hair.

A lot of players don't seem like good players, as for as a skill set goes but I think that is because they are so freakishly athletic...plus ESPN and their Top 10 plays and constant loop of highlights makes guys want to play a flashy style.
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There is a lot more to basketball than shooting percentage.

I don't disagree about kids being influenced by Sportscenter and AND1 type of stuff.
 
#134
#134
GahLee said:
I'm not talking about the Cavs, I'm talking about LeBron...and you, nor anyone else knows for sure who would win...your " watered down" argument is absurd.
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The Celtics, Lakers and Pistons from those days would destroy the Cavs. That's not even debatable.
 
#135
#135
JZVOL said:
There is a lot more to basketball than shooting percentage.

I don't disagree about kids being influenced by Sportscenter and AND1 type of stuff.
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I do not, however, understand how that meshes with his argument against your point about diminishing skill levels. One need look no further than the olympics to witness the changes.
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#138
#138
GahLee said:
It's being debating right now, everything is debatable.
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Not really. The 80s Lakers and Celts kill everybody trying today. The early 90s Pistons clean house too and the 90s Bulls: fugettaboutit.
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#139
#139
BigPapaVol said:
Not really. The 80s Lakers and Celts kill everybody trying today. The early 90s Pistons clean house too and the 90s Bulls: fugettaboutit.
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Agreed on the 80s Celts and Lakers and the 90s Bulls. Not so sure about the early 90s Pistons though.
 
#140
#140
braths said:
Agreed on the 80s Celts and Lakers and the 90s Bulls. Not so sure about the early 90s Pistons though.
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Those Pistons were the best. Defensive team ever. Two HOF guards, way above average front line. Salley, in his prime, was a bench heater on that squad.
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#141
#141
BigPapaVol said:
Those Pistons were the best. Defensive team ever. Two HOF guards, way above average front line. Salley, in his prime, was a bench heater on that squad.
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Best defensive team ever? Bold statement, IMO. That discounts an awful lot of good defensive teams.
 
#143
#143
GahLee said:
It's being debating right now, everything is debatable.
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Not by anyone who has a clue about the sport. Those were some of the best teams of all-time with multiple HOFers on each team.

It's an insult to the sport, the league and those teams to think the Cavs are even close to that level.
 
#146
#146
JZVOL said:
Not by anyone who has a clue about the sport. Those were some of the best teams of all-time with multiple HOFers on each team.

It's an insult to the sport, the league and those teams to think the Cavs are even close to that level.
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Never said the Cavs were on that level, just LeBron was on that level, he is as good as anyone on those teams...the Cavs are a good team now...historically they aren't worth mentioning, unless they go on some crazy run.

They are a good defensive team, since everyone mentions how good those tams were on D.
 
#147
#147
It's obvious lots of people in this thread do NOT watch much NBA or did not watch much NBA back in the late 80s and early 90s.

1. LeBron at 25 is NOT as good as Jordan at 25.

2. Jordan had an excellent midrange game ever since he entered the NBA.

3. Young Jordan (before first retirement) DID drive just as much as LeBron does.

4. Jordan is much more skilled than LeBron, LeBron is the better athlete.

5. LeBron is the best player in the NBA today, and it's not very close.

6. Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. He's NOT an elite defender. He makes dumb mistakes on defense all the time (fouling jumpshooters and gambling for steals).

7. LeBron is a better defender than Kobe. He uses his length and athletic ability perfectly on defense and he doesn't make stupid fouls like Kobe.

8. LeBron is NOT in his prime yet. His jumper has been improving the last 2 years, and his stats keep getting better every year.

9. To the guy saying LeBron makes it too hard on himself by shooting jumpers, he's shooting those jumpers in order to improve his shot. It has worked pretty well given that his jumper has improved quite a bit since 2008.

10. In 2-3 years, Durant might be better than LeBron, and might be better than Kobe next year.
 
#148
#148
KoachKrab127 said:
It's obvious lots of people in this thread do NOT watch much NBA or did not watch much NBA back in the late 80s and early 90s.

1. LeBron at 25 is NOT as good as Jordan at 25.

2. Jordan had an excellent midrange game ever since he entered the NBA.

3. Young Jordan (before first retirement) DID drive just as much as LeBron does.

4. Jordan is much more skilled than LeBron, LeBron is the better athlete.

5. LeBron is the best player in the NBA today, and it's not very close.

6. Kobe is one of the most overrated players in NBA history. He's NOT an elite defender. He makes dumb mistakes on defense all the time (fouling jumpshooters and gambling for steals).

7. LeBron is a better defender than Kobe. He uses his length and athletic ability perfectly on defense and he doesn't make stupid fouls like Kobe.

8. LeBron is NOT in his prime yet. His jumper has been improving the last 2 years, and his stats keep getting better every year.

9. To the guy saying LeBron makes it too hard on himself by shooting jumpers, he's shooting those jumpers in order to improve his shot. It has worked pretty well given that his jumper has improved quite a bit since 2008.

10. In 2-3 years, Durant might be better than LeBron, and might be better than Kobe next year.
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First I've heard of that.
 
#150
#150
As Knicks fan, I knew that if the Bulls were within 10 points, Jordan wasn't going to let them lose. He was ruthless and more competitive than everyone else. Kobe, who I also can't stand, has that same quality. He is a cold blooded assasin. Everyone expects him to will the victory.

Lebron is a great basketball player. His skill set is unlike anyone who's ever played. I would compare him to a more athletic version of Magic. Yet I don't see that killer attitude and I don't think other teams fear him the way they feared Jordan. That's why Jordan is the greatest and it's not really even close. If Jordan was in his prime today, he would take Lebron's lunch.
 
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