LB Beasley Under Investigation

[HearForGrumors]

I understand just fine. I simply disagree.

Beasley is a human being. Redeeming him is more important to me than his harm to the cat.

This is your real point - you value a person's redemption more than animal life. Not a person's life. Not a person's body. A person's redemption.

And... the punishment should fit the crime. SO comparing to other things that do harm to say an innocent human life are relevant.

Here's where you're wrong, or at least make all sorts of wrong assumptions. First, your premise and conclusion just don't fit. Saying the punishment should fit the crime when talking about abortion assumes, as fact, that abortion is a crime. (it isn't) Now, morally speaking you might want to equate those things, however - that still doesn't work in this application. It's definitional - "human life" means very different things to different people. Most abortions, like 99%, occur when the thing aborted is nothing more than a human in potential. It is wholly unrecognizable as a person.

Are you claiming that all misdemeanors or particularly misdemeanors for (presumably) first time animal abuse charges are punished by jail time?

Yes, all misdemeanors in Tennessee are punishable (notice the suffix) by jail time.

So you agree that a player who does something equally or more harmful to a human being regardless of state of development should carry even more weight?

You can't do that - it's intellectually disingenuous. A "human being" is a thing. A "Human embryo" is a thing. A "Human Zygote" is a thing. A "Human Fetus" is a thing. So, just adding "regardless of development" does not make your question logical. And, no, I don't think abortion is, or should be, a crime. And, unless we have female players on the team none of them will be getting an abortion any time soon. And, if any of them forces (by using force) their partner to have an abortion against their will, well then they are guilty of a crime. But, it isn't "harming a human." It's a different crime.

He behaved in a way that put his future with the program in jeopardy. He also threatened a female student.

(Context, we're talking about Jeremy Banks) Those things were not crimes. And yet, because they were politically charged, the result was the same. How you can say that JB put his future with the program in jeopardy due to speech, while thinking that irreparably harming a kitten is okay is mind-blowing. I thought it was about redemption? I thought it was about "the next 60 years of his life." Suddenly that's not so important to you? Hypocrite.

Oh? Or is it because that crime bothers you less? Folks have mentioned statistics. Statistically a high number of violent criminals are drunk or high when they commit their crimes. Seattle and Denver have seen an increase in murder rates since legalizing pot. That's an anecdote but articles I've seen have not been able to show a crime reduction as many advocates claimed.

Please. Don't acknowledge anecdotal evidence, and then attribute deeper meaning to it. Here's some data - Only 24% of violent crime victims believe their assailant's were drunk/high at the time of the assault. Murder rates actually went down in Seattle from 2012 to 2016. Regardless, Seattle still has a murder rate well below the national average. Get out of here with your imaginary facts.

Right. It is a crime you don't like. I don't like it. But if what he did isn't a pattern then he should stay and face punishment/counseling.

Tell me other crimes you feel that way about? Rape? Theft? Vandalism? "Your honor, it isn't a pattern, so my client should continue to play football and see a therapist." Please...

Also, as many have said, having the PRIVILEGE of football taken away is a punishment. As I mentioned, which you failed to discuss, Jeremy Banks was kicked off the team as a punishment (for getting arrested after not paying a speeding ticket and smarting off to cops). Jauan Jennings was kicked off the team after making an instagram post.

If it is a pattern then I've consistently said that's a different matter.

It's arguments like this that force domestic violence victims back into the house with their abusers.

Which is why you had such an incredibly ignorant, misleading, and misguided response.....

Did you acknowledge that your argument was ignorant, misguided, and misleading - and then blame my response on your stupid position? Methinks you did.

It is serious. We're talking about changing the course of the next 60 years of this kid's life over a cat.... for better or worse.

"Over a cat..." Yes, as part of the social contract in this country - we believe that helpless animals should not be harmed for no reason. Certainly, there are terrible situations which require some level of harm (euthanasia in shelters). However, when an animal has a caregiver, we've decided that harming that animal is inhuman. Hence the word "inhumane" (from the latin root inhumanus, meaning inhuman.)

So, yes, losing your football privileges for being inhuman, inhumane, and whatnot is a fair consequence. Your defense of any contrary position is, as I've described, based in conjecture, fallacy, and opinion. Comparing this act to abortion is asinine. Minimalizing it because it "isn't a pattern" while you actually have no knowledge of whether or not it is a pattern is foolish and harmful.

I don't disagree that he needs help, just like domestic abusers must partake in anger management after their release from jail. He needs rehabilitation, to identify the part of his psyche which permits harm to animals. However, he has no business playing football while he goes on that journey of discovery and growth. Maybe you can start a GoFundMe for his therapy.

 

[m1al]

Vick needs one put right between his ****ing eyes. He’s the scum of the earth.

I detest dog fighting and those who engage in it but Vick paid the debt required of him by law under sentancing guidelines at the time.

That said, I have to say I'm very glad you're not a judge as it seems you would arbitrarily envoke the death penalty for crimes that are particularly offensive to you, regardless of whatever sentancing guidelines are in place for said crime.

 

[LittleVol]

I don't know. I would guess that there were some emotions flying around between the 3 humans involved. Just guessing by how things usually go here... we probably don't have the facts exactly accurate either.

If he tormented the cat then I really don't think he should avoid responsibility. Maybe require him to do community service at a kennel cleaning dog cages? Maybe find a hog farmer who would let him work waste deep in barn sewage? Maybe make him work in an animal adoption shelter too?

I just think redeeming the kid for the next 60 years is more important than getting revenge for the kitten.

I would agree with that.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

You feel better now?

Let me make something very clear.

There is a difference between some POS beating someone's pet kitten to near death and someone disposing of destructive, dangerous feral animals on their own property. I really don't give a sh!t if you, or anyone else for that matter, are unable to discern that.

Whoever abused that kitten should definitely suffer the consequences for his/her actions...

You never really answered my questions before. You went from saying your friend went from drowning kittens to killing adult feral cats in some manner. It’s does factor into my opinion regarding his actions. I used to be a hunter so it’s not like I think the killing of animals is unjustified, just the manner in which it is done.

 

[jdhallvols]

Let him play

we need LB's

says every winning SEC program ever because this wouldn't get beyond the person having said concerns and the fixer$$

this includes the 4 or 5 that busted into some dude's room and took his weed

BRING BACK THE 90'S DAMNIT !!

 

[99gator]

I won't say that.... even as repugnant as those are. People are still redeemable. An animal should never be valued over a human being. Humans have intrinsic worth. Humans are created in the image of God.... who also commanded us to be good stewards over creation including animals.

I think Beasley should be punished. I just think many here have gone way overboard.

I’m assuming then that you are opposed to the death penalty

 

[m1al]

You never really answered my questions before. You went from saying your friend went from drowning kittens to killing adult feral cats in some manner. It’s does factor into my opinion regarding his actions. I used to be a hunter so it’s not like I think the killing of animals is unjustified, just the manner in which it is done.

This is the last time I will engage you on this..

I don't think I ever said he drowned kittens, because he didn't.. The story he told me is that he had done this on two different occasions. They were feral cats (full grown), they were vicious, they caused a lot of damage to his property and posed a real danger to his kids who were young at the time. He did not take pleasure in doing this. He simply looked at it as problem that needed to be dealt with ASAP.. No different than farmers who shoot coyotes or wild dogs that run their cattle or ground hogs whose burrows break cows legs when they step in them...

You may not like it but people, farmers, etc. have done things like this forever and DOES NOT mean they are "sick f***s" or "sadistic"...

Have a good day....

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

This is the last time I will engage you on this..

I don't think I ever said he drowned kittens, because he didn't.. The story he told me is that he had done this on two different occasions. They were feral cats (full grown), they were vicious, they caused a lot of damage to his property and posed a real danger to his kids who were young at the time. He did not take pleasure in doing this. He simply looked at it as problem that needed to be dealt with ASAP.. No different than farmers who shoot coyotes or wild dogs that run their cattle or ground hogs whose burrows break cows legs when they step in them...

You may not like it but people, farmers, etc. have done things like this forever and DOES NOT mean they are "sick f***s" or "sadistic"...

Have a good day....

You made it seem that he had drowned kittens or killed them is some other manner. That’s why everyone jumped on you.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

What a tire fire this thread is, largely because of one poster.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

What a tire fire this thread is, largely because of one poster.

Hint.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Not necessarily. There are other ways to punish players.

Redeeming a kid who does something very stupid... if not criminal... is very good publicity.

To who besides those of us who follow UT football as closely as we do? Who do you think will remember in September if he does what is required and behaves himself?


I'm not worried about fair or really even perceptions. I am more concerned about justice. Unless this is a pattern of behavior it would be unjust and out of balance with other things done by players to boot him.

We are not "Rehab University" for these kids.

We've got enough going on and have enough of a black eye from the Pruitt and Co fiasco without this kid.

If you guys want to see why the culture sucks, here it is. Accountability. You don't bring the freaking national media attention to our football program with some stupid, reckless behavior.

But here is poster saying, "People don't follow football that closely, who cares what the players do....... people will forget."

THIS is how the culture turns bad. No accountability.

What do you suggest? We run him? These guys can likely run for days....... annoying, not a punishment. Do we slap his hand and tell him, "Bad boy..... don't do that!"

He's a distraction and the program has enough built in distractions right now without tolerating bonehead behavior.

Seriously, what kind of "punishment" should he get in your eyes?

 

[manUTe__VOL]

This is your real point - you value a person's redemption more than animal life. Not a person's life. Not a person's body. A person's redemption.



Here's where you're wrong, or at least make all sorts of wrong assumptions. First, your premise and conclusion just don't fit. Saying the punishment should fit the crime when talking about abortion assumes, as fact, that abortion is a crime. (it isn't) Now, morally speaking you might want to equate those things, however - that still doesn't work in this application. It's definitional - "human life" means very different things to different people. Most abortions, like 99%, occur when the thing aborted is nothing more than a human in potential. It is wholly unrecognizable as a person.



Yes, all misdemeanors in Tennessee are punishable (notice the suffix) by jail time.



You can't do that - it's intellectually disingenuous. A "human being" is a thing. A "Human embryo" is a thing. A "Human Zygote" is a thing. A "Human Fetus" is a thing. So, just adding "regardless of development" does not make your question logical. And, no, I don't think abortion is, or should be, a crime. And, unless we have female players on the team none of them will be getting an abortion any time soon. And, if any of them forces (by using force) their partner to have an abortion against their will, well then they are guilty of a crime. But, it isn't "harming a human." It's a different crime.



(Context, we're talking about Jeremy Banks) Those things were not crimes. And yet, because they were politically charged, the result was the same. How you can say that JB put his future with the program in jeopardy due to speech, while thinking that irreparably harming a kitten is okay is mind-blowing. I thought it was about redemption? I thought it was about "the next 60 years of his life." Suddenly that's not so important to you? Hypocrite.



Please. Don't acknowledge anecdotal evidence, and then attribute deeper meaning to it. Here's some data - Only 24% of violent crime victims believe their assailant's were drunk/high at the time of the assault. Murder rates actually went down in Seattle from 2012 to 2016. Regardless, Seattle still has a murder rate well below the national average. Get out of here with your imaginary facts.


Tell me other crimes you feel that way about? Rape? Theft? Vandalism? "Your honor, it isn't a pattern, so my client should continue to play football and see a therapist." Please...

Also, as many have said, having the PRIVILEGE of football taken away is a punishment. As I mentioned, which you failed to discuss, Jeremy Banks was kicked off the team as a punishment (for getting arrested after not paying a speeding ticket and smarting off to cops). Jauan Jennings was kicked off the team after making an instagram post.



It's arguments like this that force domestic violence victims back into the house with their abusers.



Did you acknowledge that your argument was ignorant, misguided, and misleading - and then blame my response on your stupid position? Methinks you did.



"Over a cat..." Yes, as part of the social contract in this country - we believe that helpless animals should not be harmed for no reason. Certainly, there are terrible situations which require some level of harm (euthanasia in shelters). However, when an animal has a caregiver, we've decided that harming that animal is inhuman. Hence the word "inhumane" (from the latin root inhumanus, meaning inhuman.)

So, yes, losing your football privileges for being inhuman, inhumane, and whatnot is a fair consequence. Your defense of any contrary position is, as I've described, based in conjecture, fallacy, and opinion. Comparing this act to abortion is asinine. Minimalizing it because it "isn't a pattern" while you actually have no knowledge of whether or not it is a pattern is foolish and harmful.

I don't disagree that he needs help, just like domestic abusers must partake in anger management after their release from jail. He needs rehabilitation, to identify the part of his psyche which permits harm to animals. However, he has no business playing football while he goes on that journey of discovery and growth. Maybe you can start a GoFundMe for his therapy.

Did you just become my favorite member on the forum?

 

[bamawriter]

Point of order... it seems more like False Equivalence than a Strawman.

False Equivalence

Not that it matters, but he's not drawing a false equivalence. Arguing that harming a cat is no different than harming a human would be a false equivalence (though there are some who might argue they're completely equal). He's shifting the argument to a completely unrelated issue to justify his conclusion.

 

[JCHateSteve]

Not that it matters, but he's not drawing a false equivalence. Arguing that harming a cat is no different than harming a human would be a false equivalence (though there are some who might argue they're completely equal). He's shifting the argument to a completely unrelated issue to justify his conclusion.

Edit: Well the post got deleted, for some reason. So I'll just drop it.

 

[Voltildeath1]

IF this is true, press charges and let the law run its course... he will deserve every ounce of punishment he receives.

I would just caution everyone about jumping to conclusions and denying someone due process under the law. Remember A.J. Johnson? His case took years to resolve and may have cost him millions of dollars and years off his career.

Yes, the facts surrounding each case is different, but allowing due process to take its course is the most effective way to get to the facts and facilitate justice for both victim and accused.

It’s a cat. I’ve shot many that kill my bluebirds and crap in my mulch. Couldn’t care less.

 

[1982Alum]

It’s a cat. I’ve shot many that kill my bluebirds and crap in my mulch. Couldn’t care less.

It’s a cat. I’ve shot many that kill my bluebirds and crap in my mulch. Couldn’t care less.

AMEN.

 

[m1al]

You made it seem that he had drowned kittens or killed them is some other manner. That’s why everyone jumped on you.

No, I did not...

Seriously dude, don't try and blame me because of your inability to comprehend what I wrote...

 

[Big Al Orange]

What a tire fire this thread is, largely because of one poster.

I’m just thankful that Navin R. Johnson wrote that big check to stop all cat juggling.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

No, I did not...

Seriously dude, don't try and blame me because of your inability to comprehend what I wrote...

Others thought the same thing. I’ll go back and look.

 

[m1al]

I’m just thankful that Navin R. Johnson wrote that big check to stop all cat juggling.

Cat Juggling is out of control...

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

No, I did not...

Seriously dude, don't try and blame me because of your inability to comprehend what I wrote...

I comprehend just fine after reading your initial comment in the topic. Just looked your first post up again. Sjt18 recounted a story of someone who bagged up kittens and drowned them to help the neighborhood out. You commented that your friend(farmer) had done the same thing. That is why several of us have been coming down hard on you. You are moving the goalposts at minimum or downright lying and trying to cover up for your posts.

Edit: your post to Sjt18 was your acquaintance did the “exact same thing”. Direct quote from you.

 

[VAVol85]

It’s a cat. I’ve shot many that kill my bluebirds and crap in my mulch. Couldn’t care less.

Just when this thread was down to a few diehards, you’re going to go and fire it up again!

 

[m1al]

I comprehend just fine after reading your initial comment in the topic. Just looked your first post up again. Sjt18 recounted a story of someone who bagged up kittens and drowned them to help the neighborhood out. You commented that your friend(farmer) had done the same thing. That is why several of us have been coming down hard on you. You are moving the goalposts at minimum or downright lying and trying to cover up for your posts.

Edit: your post to Sjt18 was your acquaintance did the “exact same thing”. Direct quote from you.

As I said, No I didn't.. Not surprisingly you left the most important part out.. Here is my exact quote..

"I worked with a guy who farmed, raised cattle, chickens and the like. He was of the nicest, down to earth, hardest working, just plain good folk I've ever known. He did the same exact thing to feral cats that that multiplied like rabbits and killed his chickens. His opinion was it was a hell of..."

He drowned FERAL CATS not kittens.. Again, stop blaming me for your inability to understand a simple statement....

 

[Carl Pickens]

.

 

[Jaws]

There is an ethical, moral way of dispatching nuisance animals. Drowning, burning, blunt force trauma and the like aren’t ethical or moral.

This same code of morality is found in abundance amongst seasoned hunters. You’ll never see a hunter more disappointed or broken hearted than when his/her shot is off and an animal isn’t killed immediately and instead may be wounded and suffering. That’s why most hunters are meticulous in making sure conditions are perfect so that this scenario doesn’t play out.

I had the misfortune of seeing a social media video not long ago of a young man literally lifting his dog over his head and repeatedly body-slamming this dog to the ground. The dog was so fearful, broken and traumatized it was reduced to a whimpering, injured, horrified mess. It was sickening.

Any person who would kick a kitten, drown a kitten, body slam a dog or in any other way traumatize and torture a harmless domestic pet, or any animal for that matter, is a sick bastard.

I also agree that even if guilty, Beasley doesn’t deserve to have his life become irredeemable. He has to pay the price to society and then he has to be afforded the opportunity for redemption and forgiveness.