Lady Vols vs. Kentucky Game Thread

djtee

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Holly :
On (Evina) Westbrook's performance and her turnovers:
"I am going to give Evina credit, she was attacking the basket, and she was aggressive with the ball. She is going to try and get people involved. I know she threw balls that led a couple of us too far. She will reel those in. Evina is a competitor, and she understands the game. She will get that corrected."


My take We have seen this for 2 years in a row now !


Holly :
On Meme Jackson's shooting slump:
"I have to watch the tape. I thought she took some good shots, but I think she is pressing a little bit. So we will get her in the gym and put up shots – get that confidence back. She is one of our best shooters, but she hasn't shot the ball well the last two games, and obviously it has hurt us. We have to get her confidence back and her offensive scoring ability, which she can do."



My take she at her peak !
 

Amb3096

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If Jackson is Holly best option this team is cooked and you know it. Well we all know Holly can`t coach but she needs to send a message to the starters. Look at teams like Georgia there coach made a change to the starting five and now they are playing much better. SC has made a change to there lineup and it`s seems to be working Cooper has had her mins cut . There are few other teams that have tweek there lineup.
Well...yes, I know that. I've said on numerous occasions that I shudder to think of the fact that as Meme Jackson goes, so does Tennessee. The problem is that there's no one to replace her that will occupy a defender full time. Massengill is a liability on offense, and is not a good enough playmaker/defender to warrant extended minutes. Burrell is even worse.
 

djtee

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Well...yes, I know that. I've said on numerous occasions that I shudder to think of the fact that as Meme Jackson goes, so does Tennessee. The problem is that there's no one to replace her that will occupy a defender full time. Massengill is a liability on offense, and is not a good enough playmaker/defender to warrant extended minutes. Burrell is even worse.
Rae has not spent enough time on the court to even throw her into the mix so Let`s be fair, Also a good coach let`s say Geno, Muffet, or Walz i think would have sent a strong message by benching someone.
 

sccshortstop

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Rae has not spent enough time on the court to even throw her into the mix so Let`s be fair, Also a good coach let`s say Geno, Muffet, or Walz i think would have sent a strong message by benching someone.
The problem is Rae and Mimi should both by now been on the court to do better. That is not on them but on the coach.
 

PointGuard

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same thing year after year after year. but it's gotta be the players and not the coach right?
It seems to get worse as the years go on. The fall from Excellence to, at best, mediocrity is really sad. THe worst thing is it is not necessary. An AD who will not make a needed coaching change is unacceptable. An AD who gives an inept HC a raise combined with an unwarranted contract extension is unforgivable.

I see the die hard Holly defenders are MIA again in the game thread.

I've been hoping for a return to greatness for too long. Way to trash the heritage!!
 

Amb3096

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Exactly and you can’t do better if your leash is short, they don’t get the same chances to make a mistake that MeMe, Evina, and Rennia get yet the fans demand the same play from them
I get what you're saying. We know that coaches like Geno, Muffet, Vic, Jeff, etc... have high standards. I remember a NCAA tournament game a few years back where Louisville was playing, and Shook had a bad turnover with a careless pass. Jeff called a time out, and when Kylie walked over to him he said (with a very calm demeanor, arms crossed over chest), "What the f*** was that?". Then he repeated it. Point taken.

The thing is we don't know about Holly. You don't see her light into players when they make mistakes, so what feedback does Evina or Meme get? Is Holly's viewpoint that they're gonna push pace and sometimes it will be sloppy with turnovers, and that's ok? If so, you can't fault Evina/Meme if they do just that. I'd rather see her teach the experienced players how to value possessions as opposed to expecting less talented players to instinctively know what they think the coach wants, even if she never communicated it.
 

Volfan2012

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If you can't make free throws at at least a 70 percent a game your gonna lose a lot of those games depending on your turnovers and field goal shooting. 12 misses last night could just make six 50 percent of those and win the game.
 

Nuyoika

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Tennessee basically let Maci Morris beat them, and this is what is so frustrating. This is a kid who (I believe) Tennessee didn't think was worth recruiting, and who probably wouldn't see the court if she signed as a Lady Vol. To make matters worse, when she fouled out with an eternity left in the game and UK up only 4 points, Tennessee and their army of uber-athletic, tall, 5-star players couldn't just roll over 5 no-name UK players that again probably wouldn't even merit a "thanks but no thanks" response should they tried to get the coaching staff's attention as a recruit. That's what makes this most frustrating. Maci Morris, Rhyne Howard and Taylor Murray gave UK a chance, but they weren't on the court when the game was decided.
It's hard to argue with that logic. It makes sense and I agree. Were you surprised at all that they weren't fired up after their last loss? Certainly a rough start to conference play. They will get better however I do wonder what the rotations are going to be like the second half of the season. The freshman seem to be hungry so that's a good sign.
 

djtee

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I get what you're saying. We know that coaches like Geno, Muffet, Vic, Jeff, etc... have high standards. I remember a NCAA tournament game a few years back where Louisville was playing, and Shook had a bad turnover with a careless pass. Jeff called a time out, and when Kylie walked over to him he said (with a very calm demeanor, arms crossed over chest), "What the f*** was that?". Then he repeated it. Point taken.

The thing is we don't know about Holly. You don't see her light into players when they make mistakes, so what feedback does Evina or Meme get? Is Holly's viewpoint that they're gonna push pace and sometimes it will be sloppy with turnovers, and that's ok? If so, you can't fault Evina/Meme if they do just that. I'd rather see her teach the experienced players how to value possessions as opposed to expecting less talented players to instinctively know what they think the coach wants, even if she never communicated it.

Well right now sloppy with turnovers and bad shooting is a problem.
 

Amb3096

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It's hard to argue with that logic. It makes sense and I agree. Were you surprised at all that they weren't fired up after their last loss? Certainly a rough start to conference play. They will get better however I do wonder what the rotations are going to be like the second half of the season. The freshman seem to be hungry so that's a good sign.
No, I wasn't surprised because Tennessee team's in the Warlick Era lack a killer instinct. They are soft. They were probably too busy whinging about Sophie's elbow and Lauren's clapping (unbelievable that they had issues with this!) during the Mizzou loss that they couldn't be bothered to figure out how to guard open threes and dribble penetration, and practice how to make a simple 3-foot layup off one of a gazillion offensive rebounds. The freshmen can be hungry all they want, but they are raw and it's unlikely that they will be able to make much of an impact this season. Mimi Collins is big and strong when matched up against a 6'1 UK post player, but she will not be a factor against teams with size. Massengill is great against cupcakes...the fact that she can't shoot and blows defensive assignments limits her usefulness against better teams. Burrell is like Collins...plays hard with a lot of energy. Also can't shoot. Low basketball IQ. They need to learn, and with the conference competition heating up, I doubt it will happen this year as games get tighter and minutes become more scarce as Holly tightens the rotation.
 

lvocd

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Clearly. I was being kind of tongue in cheek to express my opinion that she is a poor coach. It's almost like she just unleashes her team of big athletes and wonders why they aren't winning? She doesn't develop players. I thought this season was different and was starting to change my tune, but it's easy to look good against the massive roster of cupcakes they scheduled in OOC. It's kind of sad that these kids are basically ensuring Holly keeps her job because their good enough to win just enough games, but they aren't improving as players.
I'd *hoped* it would be different.... that the program had been dramatically changed to steer away from the stale drills, practice methods and so on that are clearly not working, in favor of freshly-learned, innovative coaching methods that will shake the program up and get its blood circulating again. That was the HOPE. The REALITY is that this is the exact same team that we've seen the last 7 or 8 years. Sure, the players are different, but the product on the floor is exactly the same.

There can be only one reason for this, and it has nohing to do with player effort/desire/lack of pride.
 

Undercovervol

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No, I wasn't surprised because Tennessee team's in the Warlick Era lack a killer instinct. They are soft. They were probably too busy whinging about Sophie's elbow and Lauren's clapping (unbelievable that they had issues with this!) during the Mizzou loss that they couldn't be bothered to figure out how to guard open threes and dribble penetration, and practice how to make a simple 3-foot layup off one of a gazillion offensive rebounds. The freshmen can be hungry all they want, but they are raw and it's unlikely that they will be able to make much of an impact this season. Mimi Collins is big and strong when matched up against a 6'1 UK post player, but she will not be a factor against teams with size. Massengill is great against cupcakes...the fact that she can't shoot and blows defensive assignments limits her usefulness against better teams. Burrell is like Collins...plays hard with a lot of energy. Also can't shoot. Low basketball IQ. They need to learn, and with the conference competition heating up, I doubt it will happen this year as games get tighter and minutes become more scarce as Holly tightens the rotation.
Always appreciate your takes on the games and CHW. I agree.
Unfortunately I’ve come to the realization that I can no longer be emotionally invested in this team and players with the current product on the court, so I don’t think I’ll watch anymore games this season without a miracle improvement. I’ve been on better offensive and defensive teams playing rec league basketball than these Lady Vols, and I’ve been around better high school coaches than CHW. It’s very sad that we have the talent to compete but no coach to get them going and play to a level required of a program with the most wins in women’s college basketball history. I found myself rooting for Kentucky as UT made a late run, and the announcers certainly were rooting for UK, and I don’t blame them. CHW should be fired, and until that happens, I see no change in this program. Even with the Diamond years, there was always a glimmer of hope for good games. Now, pretty much every game we play against a quality opponent, we play poorly. I think last year’s tournament loss and these three straight home losses are the low point for me as a lady vol fan.
 

djtee

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No, I wasn't surprised because Tennessee team's in the Warlick Era lack a killer instinct. They are soft. They were probably too busy whinging about Sophie's elbow and Lauren's clapping (unbelievable that they had issues with this!) during the Mizzou loss that they couldn't be bothered to figure out how to guard open threes and dribble penetration, and practice how to make a simple 3-foot layup off one of a gazillion offensive rebounds. The freshmen can be hungry all they want, but they are raw and it's unlikely that they will be able to make much of an impact this season. Mimi Collins is big and strong when matched up against a 6'1 UK post player, but she will not be a factor against teams with size. Massengill is great against cupcakes...the fact that she can't shoot and blows defensive assignments limits her usefulness against better teams. Burrell is like Collins...plays hard with a lot of energy. Also can't shoot. Low basketball IQ. They need to learn, and with the conference competition heating up, I doubt it will happen this year as games get tighter and minutes become more scarce as Holly tightens the rotation.
Hmm let be real Burrell can shoot she just don`t get the mins because they are wasted on over hyped players like Jackson and Westbrook. Westbrook was the #2 player coming out of HS and she can`t even make the
Wooden Award midseason top 25 watch list
i see Fr Rhyne Howard name on that list.
 

Amb3096

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Always appreciate your takes on the games and CHW. I agree.
Unfortunately I’ve come to the realization that I can no longer be emotionally invested in this team and players with the current product on the court, so I don’t think I’ll watch anymore games this season without a miracle improvement. I’ve been on better offensive and defensive teams playing rec league basketball than these Lady Vols, and I’ve been around better high school coaches than CHW. It’s very sad that we have the talent to compete but no coach to get them going and play to a level required of a program with the most wins in women’s college basketball history. I found myself rooting for Kentucky as UT made a late run, and the announcers certainly were rooting for UK, and I don’t blame them. CHW should be fired, and until that happens, I see no change in this program. Even with the Diamond years, there was always a glimmer of hope for good games. Now, pretty much every game we play against a quality opponent, we play poorly. I think last year’s tournament loss and these three straight home losses are the low point for me as a lady vol fan.
I used to watch all their games, but when I saw the cupcake schedule this year against "really good teams" like Stetson, I opted to not waste my time watching them blow out lesser teams and saved my viewings for when they played better competition. I've watched 4 of their games, and they lost 3 of them (Auburn being the exception). I think that they have the potential to be better because they actually have balanced perimeter scoring (Meme, Evina and Rennia), but if they aren't hitting their jumpshots, they are as ugly to watch play as ever, given there's no Mercedes to bail them out when the offense stagnates. They looked like a pickup team last night, and that's being generous.

I'll likely just watch the Georgia and ND games for the rest of the season. I was looking forward to MSST, but I think I'll be out of town...probably for the best. That has the potential to be a brutal game.

We'll see how they respond to this knockdown. If they lose to UGA, I predict they will go I to a free fall.
 

Amb3096

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Hmm let be real Burrell can shoot she just don`t get the mins because they are wasted on over hyped players like Jackson and Westbrook. Westbrook was the #2 player coming out of HS and she can`t even make the
Wooden Award midseason top 25 watch list
i see Fr Rhyne Howard name on that list.
Rae is 38% overall and 27% from deep...and this is mostly against cupcakes playing just over a quarter a game. So no...she can't shoot. Westbrook is about 44% from the field and from deep. Shooting is not the problem for Evina. It's her turnovers. But take away her offense and Tennessee is much worse than 13-3.

Howard is easily a better player than Evina. I don't dispute that. I think Maci Morris is too, for that matter. Plus, I'm not at all surprised that Evina isn't on the Wooden List, given the fact that she hasn't gotten proper coaching in college. Holly is confident she will "get it". Doesn't say how, but she expects it to magically happen.
 

djtee

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I used to watch all their games, but when I saw the cupcake schedule this year against "really good teams" like Stetson, I opted to not waste my time watching them blow out lesser teams and saved my viewings for when they played better competition. I've watched 4 of their games, and they lost 3 of them (Auburn being the exception). I think that they have the potential to be better because they actually have balanced perimeter scoring (Meme, Evina and Rennia), but if they aren't hitting their jumpshots, they are as ugly to watch play as ever, given there's no Mercedes to bail them out when the offense stagnates. They looked like a pickup team last night, and that's being generous.

I'll likely just watch the Georgia and ND games for the rest of the season. I was looking forward to MSST, but I think I'll be out of town...probably for the best. That has the potential to be a brutal game.

We'll see how they respond to this knockdown. If they lose to UGA, I predict they will go I to a free fall.
I think they will win against UGA let`s see if Holly lights a fire under there rear. I could be wrong but Holly needs to get into the players face like muffet mcgraw did last night when Mabrey made a awful pass she ripped her on TV at a time out.
 

Undercovervol

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I used to watch all their games, but when I saw the cupcake schedule this year against "really good teams" like Stetson, I opted to not waste my time watching them blow out lesser teams and saved my viewings for when they played better competition. I've watched 4 of their games, and they lost 3 of them (Auburn being the exception). I think that they have the potential to be better because they actually have balanced perimeter scoring (Meme, Evina and Rennia), but if they aren't hitting their jumpshots, they are as ugly to watch play as ever, given there's no Mercedes to bail them out when the offense stagnates. They looked like a pickup team last night, and that's being generous.

I'll likely just watch the Georgia and ND games for the rest of the season. I was looking forward to MSST, but I think I'll be out of town...probably for the best. That has the potential to be a brutal game.

We'll see how they respond to this knockdown. If they lose to UGA, I predict they will go I to a free fall.
I also think they’re close to a free fall. I predict attendance to decrease dramatically. They’re likely to get hammered by State and Notre Dame, particularly because ND lost here. If the SEC were having a normal year, they’d lose more than 10 games in conference play. I wouldn’t be surprised if they missed the tournament this year. They have one good win against auburn and a suspect win against the other worst coach in WCBB.
 

Amb3096

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I think they will win against UGA let`s see if Holly lights a fire under there rear. I could be wrong but Holly needs to get into the players face like muffet mcgraw did last night when Mabrey made a awful pass she ripped her on TV at a time out.
The challenge against UGA is that they have strong interior players, and the tried and true offensive strategy of "jack up bricks, grab o-board, lather/rinse/repeat until make basket or fouled" won't be there as readily as it was vs. a smaller UK team. If UGA plays Tennessee the same way they played MSST and Meme doesn't find her shot then Tennessee is screwed 🔩
 

Amb3096

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I also think they’re close to a free fall. I predict attendance to decrease dramatically. They’re likely to get hammered by State and Notre Dame, particularly because ND lost here. If the SEC were having a normal year, they’d lose more than 10 games in conference play. I wouldn’t be surprised if they missed the tournament this year. They have one good win against auburn and a suspect win against the other worst coach in WCBB.
Too many bad teams in the SEC this year. It's unlikely they'll lose to the likes of UF, Ole Miss, or Vandy. Playing Vandy twice will only help them. As long as they don't screw up against Arky, Bama and Auburn, they should find themselves in their normal middle of the pack SEC finish, destined for a first/second round exit in the SECT.

Shame on me for thinking this season would be different...
 

JFP

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There is no reason for this team to be losers. Or to use coaching for excuse or any other excuses. It is a matter of becoming tougher and rising to their true level of capability. Forget the praise of yesteryears and grow up.
 

ksl415

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Hmm let be real Burrell can shoot she just don`t get the mins because they are wasted on over hyped players like Jackson and Westbrook. Westbrook was the #2 player coming out of HS and she can`t even make the
Wooden Award midseason top 25 watch list
i see Fr Rhyne Howard name on that list.

She may not be living up to some of you alls standards but I’ll roll with Evina with the team we have. She plays both ends and actually doesn’t mind mixing it up. Turnover prone for sure but no way can Rae or Massengil run this team. Rae is a supporting cast type player. Love her energy and yes she should be given more PT but take Zaay out for her NOT Evina.
 

ksl415

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Our team is too soft. They make a mistake, there are no repercussions, no discipline so the same mistakes will be made until Holly can put her big pants on and get this team in check. I really wish she would. Can’t change her personality she is.
 

djtee

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She may not be living up to some of you alls standards but I’ll roll with Evina with the team we have. She plays both ends and actually doesn’t mind mixing it up. Turnover prone for sure but no way can Rae or Massengil run this team. Rae is a supporting cast type player. Love her energy and yes she should be given more PT but take Zaay out for her NOT Evina.
No Westbrook should start but i would like her to clean up her game. Right now she is forcing the action and it`s not working. I remember when CP was pressing the action not sure who it was against. But anyway and at time out Pat let her have it and told her to sit down and CP responded after that. I think getting Rae more mins would help this team. This team is not built like ND, UConn where they can play only 5-6 players.
 

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