Lack of talent??

[VolGee4]

Can somebody please tell me why our coaches are not teaching Stokes to use that huge frame he has to clear space with the defender? He(like myself let me add) is vertically challenged when he is in traffic. So why not put his backside in the other guys hip and CLEAR SO FREAKIN SPACE. He has too much talent to be getting blocked 5 times a game.

Got called for an offensive foul against Memphis for trying to "clear space." There is a fine line to this. You have to teach him to use his body, but the kid is so strong that he will pick up fouls. We need him until the end.

I didn't see the game last night, so it is probably not fair to comment. But, I know that Holloway and Buckner are physical players, and the fact that our 5 starters had 20 total fouls is a travesty. Again, didn't see the game, but I used to get so frustrated with this when Buzz was the coach. We couldn't get the same home court advantage as everyone else. In fact, I clearly remember when Buzz was tossed in a game at South Carolina- one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen (aside from a rec league game).

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Even less; asst coach who became HC and, in his second yr, had a top 5 recruiting class. Came in with a pending NCAA investigation/probation and turned it around.

Without bringing any committed recruits with him, Pastner could make UTK relevant with two recruiting classes. And, before the naysayers start, a huge part of becoming a good/great coach is great recruiting. Watch and you'll see.

The point is, Martin didn't bring recruits with him, and no follow-on "relationship" has committed to the Vols. While I am on the "give him more time" side, it's easy to see that the critics may have a point. Hubbs is the only true high-level recruit to-date. Will be interesting to see where Vol recruiting is for 2013/2014 in 6 - 9 months.

Pastner was on the Memphis staff for a year before taking over and at Arizona before that. Point being, he already had relationships built with many of the recruits that he ended up bringing in those first couple years.

You really think that when Pastner became head coach it was the first time he talked to Adonis Thomas, or Joe Jackson? On the flip side, when Cuonzo Martin took the Tennessee job it was the first time he had talked to Jarnell Stokes.

Let's also not let the fact that Pastner has a recruiting hot bed in his back yard begging to come to his school get in the way.

 

[Stoked]

J Smith wasn't even ranked coming out of high school. Lofton was a 3* coming out of high school. Watson was a 3* . Martin is doing less with more .

Hall and Wooldridge tell you that stars don't mean anything.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Good question. I'm wondering what he picked up in a big man camp this summer, or if he went to one.

When Stokes gets the ball on the block, he dribbles once and chicken-wing hooks his way into the lane.

He was busy on the USA team. Stokes is a player right now who will dominate most guys one on one, but double or triple him and he struggles.

On the USA team he wasn't doubled and that's why he was so successful and put up the great numbers he did. Last year with Maymon along his side, same thing, put up good numbers for his minutes and FGA.

This year, he's all alone. Kenny Hall, Yemi and Reese aren't scaring any coach out dog double or triple teaming him. Add in the we have nobody who's an outside threat and they're simply sagging a defender in front, and doubling behind him.

He's not a super athletic player and I've said that for a year now, it's why he won't get drafted high. He relies on his strength to get position and move his man, but that's hard to do when you've got 3 guys you've got to work around.

 

[dixiebullfrog]

Pastner was on the Memphis staff for a year before taking over and at Arizona before that. Point being, he already had relationships built with many of the recruits that he ended up bringing in those first couple years.

You really think that when Pastner became head coach it was the first time he talked to Adonis Thomas, or Joe Jackson? On the flip side, when Cuonzo Martin took the Tennessee job it was the first time he had talked to Jarnell Stokes.

Let's also not let the fact that Pastner has a recruiting hot bed in his back yard begging to come to his school get in the way.

You're wrong; any relationships were with the Calipari regime who had great success and left town. Hey kid, want to play ball for an asst coach with no HC experience and who is routinely mistaken for the ballboy?

Pastner got only Elliot Williams (by an act of God) his 1st yr, and worked his butt off for Jackson, Black, Crawford, and the Bartons from Baltimore. At one time or another, they were all (including Adonis) a heartbeat away from committing to other schools, but Pastner got'em. Pastner reached out to a Texas kid, DJ Stephens, who no one seemed to want, and he's the heart of this yr's team. That "Memphis backyard" would dry up in a heartbeat if the kids didn't want to play for Pastner and be part of Memphis history. They do and will continue to do so.

Again, the point is a coach can make a recruiting difference in two yrs. Is your point that Martin had nothing to bring to the table when he was hired? Had to start from scratch? No HC leaves one team, joins another, and truly starts from scratch. In time, he may make it happen @ UTK.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You're wrong; any relationships were with the Calipari regime who had great success and left town. Hey kid, want to play ball for an asst coach with no HC experience and who is routinely mistaken for the ballboy?

Pastner got only Elliot Williams (by an act of God) his 1st yr, and worked his butt off for Jackson, Black, Crawford, and the Bartons from Baltimore. At one time or another, they were all (including Adonis) a heartbeat away from committing to other schools, but Pastner got'em. Pastner reached out to a Texas kid, DJ Stephens, who no one seemed to want, and he's the heart of this yr's team. That "Memphis backyard" would dry up in a heartbeat if the kids didn't want to play for Pastner and be part of Memphis history. They do and will continue to do so.

Again, the point is a coach can make a recruiting difference in two yrs. Is your point that Martin had nothing to bring to the table when he was hired? Had to start from scratch? No HC leaves one team, joins another, and truly starts from scratch. In time, he may make it happen @ UTK.

So in his time as an assistant for Arizona and Memphis Pastner NEVER talked with joe Jackson or Adonis Thomas...the Barton's, Stephens, or any other recruit that eventually committed to Memphis?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're dead wrong.

 

[VolGee4]

You're wrong; any relationships were with the Calipari regime who had great success and left town. Hey kid, want to play ball for an asst coach with no HC experience and who is routinely mistaken for the ballboy?

Pastner got only Elliot Williams (by an act of God) his 1st yr, and worked his butt off for Jackson, Black, Crawford, and the Bartons from Baltimore. At one time or another, they were all (including Adonis) a heartbeat away from committing to other schools, but Pastner got'em. Pastner reached out to a Texas kid, DJ Stephens, who no one seemed to want, and he's the heart of this yr's team. That "Memphis backyard" would dry up in a heartbeat if the kids didn't want to play for Pastner and be part of Memphis history. They do and will continue to do so.

Again, the point is a coach can make a recruiting difference in two yrs. Is your point that Martin had nothing to bring to the table when he was hired? Had to start from scratch? No HC leaves one team, joins another, and truly starts from scratch. In time, he may make it happen @ UTK.

Actually, I know a little bit about the Memphis program, and Glynn Cyprien had everything to do with Barton's coming to Memphis. That was the connection. Josh made a great find in DJ Stephens, and Goodwin had connections to the Memphis AAU team.

It is much easier selling Memphis guys to UM, and Josh is a great recruiter. But, it is very difficult to compare the situations. UT doesn't always sell itself in basketball. Martin was a great recruiter at Purdue, and he has tried to use his midwest connections. Just doesn't always translate into kids coming to UT because the midwest schools have great programs.

 

[dixiebullfrog]

So in his time as an assistant for Arizona and Memphis Pastner NEVER talked with joe Jackson or Adonis Thomas...the Barton's, Stephens, or any other recruit that eventually committed to Memphis?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're dead wrong.

Don't know what he did @ AZ; doubt if he talked to Memphis kids 3 or 4 yrs down the pike. Any discussions @ Memphis would have been to play for King Kal, certainly not Pastner.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Don't know what he did @ AZ; doubt if he talked to Memphis kids 3 or 4 yrs down the pike. Any discussions @ Memphis would have been to play for King Kal, certainly not Pastner.

It's still a familiarity. See when assistants leave a school and the recruit immediately decommits from that school.

Already liking Memphis and then knowing thr new head coach and being familiar with him already is a big advantage.

Thomas liking Memphis, and knowing josh had to help when josh became the coach. Jarnell not even knowing who Cuonzo was at all doesn't help much when he became Tennessee's coach.

 

[They]

2 major issues... Tennessee has confused bumping and talking trash as being a tough team. Lack of discipline. (I coach at a school that played TN earlier in the year. Those guys were the biggest trash talkers we have faced all year. And so was Cuonzo, a few of our guys said they could hear him saying stuff from the bench. IDK if true) Also they have a complete lack of an identity on the offensive side of the ball. CCM is a good coach just hasnt developed an identity with these guys offensively. They have talent and Cuonzo will right the ship. Losing Maymon was huge bc he was the single player I feel epitomized the tough guy, never say die mentality Cuonzo and his staff want to put out there.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Lol

 

[golfballs]

2 major issues... Tennessee has confused bumping and talking trash as being a tough team. Lack of discipline. (I coach at a school that played TN earlier in the year. Those guys were the biggest trash talkers we have faced all year. And so was Cuonzo, a few of our guys said they could hear him saying stuff from the bench. IDK if true) Also they have a complete lack of an identity on the offensive side of the ball. CCM is a good coach just hasnt developed an identity with these guys offensively. They have talent and Cuonzo will right the ship. Losing Maymon was huge bc he was the single player I feel epitomized the tough guy, never say die mentality Cuonzo and his staff want to put out there.

John Thompson III? That you?

 

[volboy81]

I think this team would be completely and totally different with Maymon out there but I'm beginning to question Martin's coaching

 

[UT IE 95]

Got called for an offensive foul against Memphis for trying to "clear space." There is a fine line to this. You have to teach him to use his body, but the kid is so strong that he will pick up fouls. We need him until the end.

I didn't see the game last night, so it is probably not fair to comment. But, I know that Holloway and Buckner are physical players, and the fact that our 5 starters had 20 total fouls is a travesty. Again, didn't see the game, but I used to get so frustrated with this when Buzz was the coach. We couldn't get the same home court advantage as everyone else. In fact, I clearly remember when Buzz was tossed in a game at South Carolina- one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen (aside from a rec league game).

We've had a pretty good home court advantage on the whistles thus far. The UM game was just ugly - we were fouling like crazy. And it wasn't poorly called, both teams got their money's worth all night.

 

[dixiebullfrog]

It's still a familiarity. See when assistants leave a school and the recruit immediately decommits from that school.

Already liking Memphis and then knowing thr new head coach and being familiar with him already is a big advantage.

Thomas liking Memphis, and knowing josh had to help when josh became the coach. Jarnell not even knowing who Cuonzo was at all doesn't help much when he became Tennessee's coach.

We all know what you're trying to prove, but you're still wrong. Adonis Thomas was in Josh's THIRD recruiting class; very likely, 4 yrs before w/Calipari, Josh had never met Adonis, i.e., there was no relationship. Stokes committed to UTK due to the scholarship; not due to CCM. That's not a knock; just a fact.

 

[OrangeBalls]

We've had a pretty good home court advantage on the whistles thus far. The UM game was just ugly - we were fouling like crazy. And it wasn't poorly called, both teams got their money's worth all night.

That's funny. I saw multiple sports writers say that the refs were clueless last night. Anytime Anthony Jordan is on the court, it's going to be a clueless crew. Maybe you need to watch more basketball.

Tell me the percentages of how many road teams shoot 18 more free throws than the home team and 44 (yes, 44) free throws total on a given night.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

We all know what you're trying to prove, but you're still wrong. Adonis Thomas was in Josh's THIRD recruiting class; very likely, 4 yrs before w/Calipari, Josh had never met Adonis, i.e., there was no relationship. Stokes committed to UTK due to the scholarship; not due to CCM. That's not a knock; just a fact.

You provide entertainment, please dont stop posting here.

 

[UT IE 95]

I have no way to prove it, but I seriously doubt Joe Jackson committed to Memphis based on the relationship he had with Pastner before he became the HC.

 

[UT IE 95]

That's funny. I saw multiple sports writers say that the refs were clueless last night. Anytime Anthony Jordan is on the court, it's going to be a clueless crew. Maybe you need to watch more basketball.

Tell me the percentages of how many road teams shoot 18 more free throws than the home team and 44 (yes, 44) free throws total on a given night.

Go away.

 

[OrangeBalls]

Go away.

No, I think I'll stay here. Maybe you can create some more falsehoods and try to get people to buy in.

Again, tell us the percentages of how many road teams shoot 18 more free throws than the home team and 44 (yes, 44) free throws total on a given night.

 

[UT IE 95]

Creepy

 

[OrangeBalls]

Yes, your obsessed hate with Cuonzo is creepy.

Still waiting on the percentages of how many road teams shoot 18 more free throws than the home team and 44 (yes, 44) free throws total on a given night.

I'm sure it's right at your fingertips.

 

[dixiebullfrog]

No, I think I'll stay here. Maybe you can create some more falsehoods and try to get people to buy in.

Again, tell us the percentages of how many road teams shoot 18 more free throws than the home team and 44 (yes, 44) free throws total on a given night.

Louisville vs. Memphis @ Memphis, 12-15-2012

L'ville - 38 of 46

UM - 14 of 20

Won't argue officiating, but style of play certainly contributed. UT jacking up 26 3-pters/shooting jumpers while OM was constantly driving the lane and baseline didn't help Vols. OM going to the line after being fouled in the act of shooting to include first 6 fouls of each half. UT joined the party in the 2nd half; too late.

 

[OrangeBalls]

No, I think I'll stay here. Maybe you can create some more falsehoods and try to get people to buy in.

Again, tell us the percentages of how many road teams shoot 18 more free throws than the home team and 44 (yes, 44) free throws total on a given night.

Louisville vs. Memphis @ Memphis, 12-15-2012

L'ville - 38 of 46

UM - 14 of 20

Won't argue officiating, but style of play certainly contributed. UT jacking up 26 3-pters/shooting jumpers while OM was constantly driving the lane and baseline didn't help Vols. OM going to the line after being fouled in the act of shooting to include first 6 fouls of each half. UT joined the party in the 2nd half; too late.

Now give me the percentages (that % sign thingy) of how often that happens on the road vs. at home.

Not arguing the style of play didn't contribute, but the officials clearly missed a goaltend and called a horrible charge on Golden on a flop to name two bad calls off the top of my head. Anthony Jordan is one of the worst, if not the worst, officials in the game.

 

[golfballs]

That's funny. I saw multiple sports writers say that the refs were clueless last night. Anytime Anthony Jordan is on the court, it's going to be a clueless crew. Maybe you need to watch more basketball.

Tell me the percentages of how many road teams shoot 18 more free throws than the home team and 44 (yes, 44) free throws total on a given night.

Only teams that are severely outmatched :whistling: