KKK statue in Alabama

#51
#51
You guys are missing the whole point. The monument was on public property in 2000 then it was moved to a donated property. Therein that is private property if they are indeed in charge of the land.

The new site is on an acre of land donated to the United Daughters of the Confederacy in 1877, said Williamson, adding that he believed the group was in control of the lot. NBC News’ efforts to reach the group for comment were not successful.

If its private property, case closed.
We still have rights in this country, freedom of speech is not there for us to talk about the weather.



Thread title is very misleading btw.
 
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#52
#52
Let's get some facts straight here.

Nathan Bedford Forrest DID NOT found the KKK.

Zebulon Pike founded the KKK and he is the only Confederate general with a monument in Washington D. C.

Forrest was invited to attend a KKK conference and was elected to be the grand dragon or whatever their top title is.

He accepted and gave one order; "that this organization be disbanded and to never meet again."

As a matter of fact he had four men hung for KKK activity.

NBF was the only American in history to advance from private to general.

In Memphis there is a NBF Park and a few years ago when some wanted it demolished it was black Americans who stood in the way of it being destroyed.

Nathan Bedford Forrest was a great man, shame on those who would bismersh his name by rewriting history.

I grew up adhering to the old black gosphel 'ain't gonna study war no more.'

But my mother in law gave me a book about Nathan Forrest as a Christmas gift one year, otherwise I would probably be condemning him as some others here are.

FWIW, the KKK of the 1880s and the KKK of the 1920s are way diferent for you serious students of history.
 
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#54
#54
gsvol said:
Let's get some facts straight here.

Nathan Bedford Forrest DID NOT found the KKK.

Zebulon Pike founded the KKK and he is the only Confederate general with a monument in Washington D. C.
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A few points...
Zebulon Pike was an explorer who was killed in the War of 1812, about 50 years prior to the founding of the Confederacy.

Albert Pike has a statue in Washington. There is no definitive proof of any involvement in the KKK.

You make some good points about Forrest, but your revisionism as to his being a faultless folk hero is absurd. The guy was no saint.

Edited re: Albert Pike's statue.
 
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#55
#55
Of course, neither was he the dark evil man as some choose to portray him. Just like the rest up us, he's somewhere in the middle.
 
#57
#57
KoachKrab127 said:
Read the article if you don't know what Forrest did.
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With both his words and his actions, Nathan Bedford Forrest supported voting rights for Blacks in a time and place when that was definitely not popular. But you don't know that, because you prefer to form your opinion from bad writers who really do not know what they are talking about. The man was no saint, but the public image created by bad journalism is far from accurate.
 
#58
#58
The KKK was an adaptation from antebellum patrols, required by state laws to police runaway slaves. Before the war, Southern states required adult male citizens to spend a certain time riding patrol. After the war, those patrols continued, without legitimacy and with altered purpose. The Southern economy had been devastated, along with much of the male population, so Southerners desperately needed to rebuild their society. But they were denied the right to vote or hold public office, which allowed Northern so-called carpetbaggers to financially exploit them further, often in alliance with freedmen. So the prewar patrols that had policed runaway slaves developed into terrorist patrols called the KKK, without leadership or discipline. Someone asked Bedford Forrest to become titular leader and he accepted. But he resigned when former Confederates began to regain their civil rights. Forrest became unpopular among racist Whites by supporting voting rights and political integration for Blacks. He publicly characterized African Americans as "a good and industrious people."
 
#59
#59
Vol Main said:
The KKK was an adaptation from antebellum patrols, required by state laws to police runaway slaves. Before the war, Southern states required adult male citizens to spend a certain time riding patrol. After the war, those patrols continued, without legitimacy and with altered purpose. The Southern economy had been devastated, along with much of the male population, so Southerners desperately needed to rebuild their society. But they were denied the right to vote or hold public office, which allowed Northern so-called carpetbaggers to financially exploit them further, often in alliance with freedmen. So the prewar patrols that had policed runaway slaves developed into terrorist patrols called the KKK, without leadership or discipline. Someone asked Bedford Forrest to become titular leader and he accepted. But he resigned when former Confederates began to regain their civil rights. Forrest became unpopular among racist Whites by supporting voting rights and political integration for Blacks. He publicly characterized African Americans as "a good and industrious people."
Click to expand...

Bingo- well said.
 
#60
#60
Pepe_Silvia said:
That's a great analogy, since Forrest is totally comparable to Hitler. Gotta love when people pull out the Nazi references when they can't really come up with a cogent argument.
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Who comparing him to Hitler? The point was just because something isn't explicitely stated, doesn't mean it isn't in bad taste to put a monument up because dude was really good at something else.

Geez.
 
#62
#62
Pepe_Silvia said:
Furthermore, I would be interested to know your stance on statues of prominent Union figures like Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses Grant, William Sherman, and Phillip Sheridan.
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Lincoln- president. Dont care if he was responsible for the holocaust...he gets a statue alone from his title.
grant- see above.
Sherman- burnt a state to the ground, but hell....is what war is.
Sheridan- see above except not as extreme.
 
#63
#63
U. S. Grant owned a slave named William Jones, acquired from his father-in-law. At a time when he could have desperately used the money from the sale of Jones, Grant signed a document that gave him his freedom. His wife Julia owned several slaves given to her by her father. Grant was in charge of her slaves but did not own them.
Grant freed this slave in 1859.
But yet, there's statues, buildings, schools and currency of former presidents who owned slaves at one point.
NBF told his slaves to leave,...they were free to go. Guess what? They all stayed! Because NBF was respected by his slaves.
 
#67
#67
Forrest was a piece of trash. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to try and convert a figure like him into a decent, misunderstood citizen or even patriot. Forrest was a major slave trader before the Civil War, the leader responsible for the Fort Pillow massacre(i.e. murder of black soldiers) and the first Grand Wizard of the KKK. All that and, somehow, his defenders expect others to swallow the story that he really liked black people and fought for their rights. Give me a break. He was a racist murdering piece of garbage traitor. Any celebration of him for his military successes should be justly rebuked and criticized.
 
#69
#69
Unimane said:
Forrest was a piece of trash. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to try and convert a figure like him into a decent, misunderstood citizen or even patriot. Forrest was a major slave trader before the Civil War, the leader responsible for the Fort Pillow massacre(i.e. murder of black soldiers) and the first Grand Wizard of the KKK. All that and, somehow, his defenders expect others to swallow the story that he really liked black people and fought for their rights. Give me a break. He was a racist murdering piece of garbage traitor. Any celebration of him for his military successes should be justly rebuked and criticized.
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Don't know much about the man's history to be honest but your description here made me think of all those people who wear Che' shirts or have a Che' poster up in their homes.
 
#70
#70
He was no saint for sure but to blatantly call him a hater of all black people and scum is just as wrong as those who, are not on this forum, revere him for his love of country. Its somehwere in between like most famous figures are.
 
#71
#71
barknoxbrawler said:
Lincoln- president. Dont care if he was responsible for the holocaust...he gets a statue alone from his title.
grant- see above.
Sherman- burnt a state to the ground, but hell....is what war is.
Sheridan- see above except not as extreme.
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See the Indian Wars in Minnesota and on the Great Plains. Its easy to find faults with all of these men. And being President entitles you to a statue, even in the event you were responsible for the Holocaust? Interesting.
 
#73
#73
Unimane said:
Forrest was a piece of trash. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to try and convert a figure like him into a decent, misunderstood citizen or even patriot. Forrest was a major slave trader before the Civil War, the leader responsible for the Fort Pillow massacre(i.e. murder of black soldiers) and the first Grand Wizard of the KKK. All that and, somehow, his defenders expect others to swallow the story that he really liked black people and fought for their rights. Give me a break. He was a racist murdering piece of garbage traitor. Any celebration of him for his military successes should be justly rebuked and criticized.
Click to expand...

Forrest grew up in poverty and was functionally illiterate all of his life, yet he became a self-made millionaire, winning general, and county commissioner. Speaking to one of Forrest's descendents, Shelby Foote(a pretty good authority) said that the Civil War produced two true geniuses, Bedford Forrest and Abraham Lincoln. There is no doubt that Forrest advocated civil rights for African Americans after the war. At a time and place where racial integration was an absolute taboo, he accepted invitations as a speaker at Black functions in Shelby County and treated Black citizens as equals to Whites, giving them unprecedented social acceptance and political legitimacy, the exact opposite behavior of so many others throughout the South who blocked racial integration for a century. For doing that, Forrest was ostracized by Whites and chose to live the last years of his life more among among Blacks than Whites. The man had bought and sold slaves, but without accepting the ideology of slavery, that is the argument of innate racial superiority/inferiority.

Do I think that your one dimensional, comic book version of his life shows any understanding of it? No.
 
#74
#74
volinbham said:
Don't know much about the man's history to be honest but your description here made me think of all those people who wear Che' shirts or have a Che' poster up in their homes.
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Know how to tell a democrat from a comminist?

I don't, if you find out let me know.

Che guevara was a real piece of work, a more avid murderer who much enjoyed his work any more has never existed.

As financial minister he surpassed even Obama, taking Cuba from the highest per capita ernings in the western hemisphere to next to the lowest (higher only than Haiti) in two short years.

The communist party in America spares no chance to stir the racist pot at every turn, hoping people will overlook more important issues.






AirVol said:
U. S. Grant owned a slave named William Jones, acquired from his father-in-law. At a time when he could have desperately used the money from the sale of Jones, Grant signed a document that gave him his freedom. His wife Julia owned several slaves given to her by her father. Grant was in charge of her slaves but did not own them.
Grant freed this slave in 1859.
But yet, there's statues, buildings, schools and currency of former presidents who owned slaves at one point.
NBF told his slaves to leave,...they were free to go. Guess what? They all stayed! Because NBF was respected by his slaves.
Click to expand...

The first documented case of slavery in America involved one black man owning another.

When ft Sumpter was fired on the two men who owned the most slaves were black men, both slave merchants, one in Charleston, SC and one in New Orleans.







barknoxbrawler said:
Bingo- well said.
Click to expand...

After the end of the Civil War there were bands of night riders who robbed, raped and burned down homes.

Union soldiers were of little help in way of protection.

That was the main motivation for people joining the KKK.





Toujours Pret said:
A few points...
Zebulon Pike was an explorer who was killed in the War of 1812, about 50 years prior to the founding of the Confederacy.

Albert Pike has a statue in Washington. There is no definitive proof of any involvement in the KKK.

You make some good points about Forrest, but your revisionism as to his being a faultless folk hero is absurd. The guy was no saint.

Edited re: Albert Pike's statue.
Click to expand...

Pardon me, I should have researched that a bit before spouting off the top of my head.

Although it can't be proven that Pike was the founder, there is no proof of just who did but there is more than ample proof that Forrest didn't.

The left likes to claim that Forrest did and it has become urban myth, just like the urban myth that Jefferson studied the koran in search of spiritual values.

Jefferson studied the koran to try to understand how the enemy thought.

I'm not saying he was a saint, I was just trying to dispel the myth that he formed the KKK which is a blatant untruth.

I had the good fortune to meet his great nephew once, a fine man.

The worst thing that could be said about Forrest would be the Ft Pillow incident which is also very often distorted by those who would rewrite history to suit themselves.
 
#75
#75
Vol Main said:
Forrest grew up in poverty and was functionally illiterate all of his life, yet he became a self-made millionaire, winning general, and county commissioner. Speaking to one of Forrest's descendents, Shelby Foote(a pretty good authority) said that the Civil War produced two true geniuses, Bedford Forrest and Abraham Lincoln. There is no doubt that Forrest advocated civil rights for African Americans after the war. At a time and place where racial integration was an absolute taboo, he accepted invitations as a speaker at Black functions in Shelby County and treated Black citizens as equals to Whites, giving them unprecedented social acceptance and political legitimacy, the exact opposite behavior of so many others throughout the South who blocked racial integration for a century. For doing that, Forrest was ostracized by Whites and chose to live the last years of his life more among among Blacks than Whites. The man had bought and sold slaves, but without accepting the ideology of slavery, that is the argument of innate racial superiority/inferiority.

Do I think that your one dimensional, comic book version of his life shows any understanding of it? No.
Click to expand...

You are so right, I should be more considerate of someone who bought and sold people for profit, tearing up families to exploit the system of human ownership, had surrendering soldiers shot during the war and mauraded with hooded thugs to deny blacks the right to vote and burn down their schools. That's a person to be celebrated. A genius, no doubt. Let's build him a thousand statues.

Thanks for setting my over sensitive, bleeding heart straight.
 
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