Kim, make excuses! (Seriously.)

#26
#26
The problem with relying just on effort - effort was not going to beat UCONN, UCLA, LSU and South Carolina. And effort along will not beat those teams next year.

Those teams were better coached, prepared with a way to combat the chaos and fast pace and play smartly.

Not necessarily downplaying effort but do you all want to be the team that played with the best effort but lost half their games? You have to combine effort with having talent that can compete with your opponent, with in game adjustments when things are not working.

Once again - I just don't think CKC is good at considering the elephant on the court - aka the opponent. I do think at Glenville the opponent didn't matter - but in D1 in the SEC it does.
 
#29
#29
Once again - I just don't think CKC is good at considering the elephant on the court - aka the opponent. I do think at Glenville the opponent didn't matter - but in D1 in the SEC it does.
This….1,000 times over. If you want to see this in action, watch Marshall against VTech. When VTech didn’t crumble against the press, Coach Caldwell had no plan B.
 
#30
#30
This….1,000 times over. If you want to see this in action, watch Marshall against VTech. When VTech didn’t crumble against the press, Coach Caldwell had no plan B.
  • 13 Seed Win Probability: Only about 5.5% of 13 seeds beat 4 seeds in the women's tournament, making them massive underdogs.
Very few coaches have a Plan B as the 13th Seed vs the 4 Seed.
 
#31
#31
  • 13 Seed Win Probability: Only about 5.5% of 13 seeds beat 4 seeds in the women's tournament, making them massive underdogs.
Very few coaches have a Plan B as the 13th Seed vs the 4 Seed.
I wasn’t suggesting that Marshall should have won. But if you watch the game, when Georgia Amore starts slicing up the press, Marshall didn’t change the way they played. They were going to play the same way without regard to the opponent.
 
#32
#32
(With the absolute certainty this thread is going to go WILDLY astray from what I intend, I'm doing it anyway. Also, if you hate long posts, just move along. This one isn't for you.)

This was clearly a different year for Kim from any other she coached, except for the last half of last year. And I think she should learn how to make excuses for her players. No, wait. Hear me out.

First, let's look at just how different this year was:

SchoolSeasonLongest losing streakTotal losses
Glenville State2016-1726
Glenville State2017-1812
Glenville State2018-1913
Glenville State2019-2015
Glenville State2020-2124
Glenville State2021-2211
Glenville State2022-2313
Marshall2023-2427
Tennessee2024-25310
Tennessee2025-26814

So, she has RARELY had to explain failure for her team. And, as many have pointed out, her most common explanation is effort (usually in the context of defense, sometimes rebounding).

I think she should practice making excuses for her players:

That was a great shooting night for...
The ball took some crazy bounces.
Every time we knocked a ball loose, it went right to one of their players.


And so forth and so on.

Why? Resilience. I'll try to keep this short, but basically one characteristic of exceptionally high performing athletes and athletic teams is often a positive explanatory style (Martin Seligman's work). When something goes wrong, they quickly put it behind them (short memories) and explain it by pointing to some external, short-term, limited scope cause. For example, a baseball player who misses a fielding play might go "bad hop" instead of "I'm not a good fielder" or "I can't play baseball' or "I'm a loser." Each of those is progressively more pessimistic and leads to decreased effort, both in the moment and in preparation for the future. Of course, they can sound like excuses, but when individuals with a positive explanatory style look to the future they take ownership and expect effort and focus to pay off. They're optimists.

And it applies to teams! MLB teams with more positive explanatory styles outhit their season averages in the late innings of close games (clutch hitting). NBA teams with pos exp style are more likely to beat the spread in the game after a home loss.

And teams tend to adopt the style of their leader! Bobby Cox was a very successful MLB manager, but many Braves fans would get furious with him for "not holding players accountable." He'd say thinks like "the ball carried" or "it hit the heel of his glove and popped out." Anything but blame it on something internal and uncontrollable for the player. These can sound like excuses, especially when the players themselves say them, but, when internalized, they pop up in the heat of the moment and affect the player's ability to let adversity go and continue to perform at their highest level.

What about "effort"? Effort sounds like something controllable. And, when applied to the present in preparation for the future, it mostly is. But in the past? Nope. Most of us think we were giving it our all, and I'm sure basketball players at the D1 level think that. So, pointing to that as the cause is saying that failure was due to something internal that they can't change and that will continue to affect all aspects of their game going forward into the future. And, over time, the drumbeat of that explanation wears players down, even though, in the moment, it sounds like something that can be "fixed."

Kim's career: Now look at the table above. Until last year, Kim had never lost 3 games in a row! So, even though the "we need to put in more effort" might have been slightly negative, that has always be wiped away pretty quickly by a win. Resilience, a great mental game -- all of that stuff isn't stressed when you're winning. Confidence is effort and you ride the high. But, when you lose. And lose again. And again. Yeah, then it matters.

Thus my suggestion Kim learn to make excuses. Well, not excuses, but point to something specific to that night, that opponent, that situation, that is over and done with and won't affect anything in the future. Say that to the team, and say it to the public. (This is going to be REALLY hard for Kim. She seems to motivate herself by being very critical and has a deeply ingrained habit of blunt honesty, of saying things as she sees them. She's going to really have to develop the ability to see things in a different way, so she can be honest even while saying some new things.)

Does that mean she gives up on effort? Not at all. But just use that moving forward. I believe she's trying to get players to learn they can play at a new level of intensity within her system, but you do that focused on the future. Which is why I think she should (and will) go back to a very hard version of pre-season practice. Players who learn they can practice harder than they ever have, train harder, will also start to believe they can play that way in the season. I think backing off last summer was a mistake.

Be that as it may, it's clear that Kim, with her notes about each season and the analytical, critical approach she has already turned on herself, is going to be rethinking a lot of things before next year. I think one of them should definitely be how she explains adversities. And if taking a more positive approach seems like "making excuses" -- practice until it doesn't. It's a skill that can be learned. I know. I had to do it.
I think you might be on to something there Retro. So much better than throwing you D1 athletes under the bus. Building confidence begins with not destroying internal confidence.
 
#33
#33
I wasn’t suggesting that Marshall should have won. But if you watch the game, when Georgia Amore starts slicing up the press, Marshall didn’t change the way they played. They were going to play the same way without regard to the opponent.
And if Marshall’s fans were like Tennessee fans, after that game the Marshall players were accused of “not caring” and “giving no effort,” 😪
 
#34
#34
when Georgia Amore starts slicing up the press, Marshall didn’t change the way they played. They were going to play the same way without regard to the opponent.
For more than a year I have been repeatedly asking the question, “What is the plan when the KC system isn’t working?” You have given KC's answer:
…play the same way without regard to the opponent.

This approach is the equivalent of saying that we are a one trick pony, and when that pony can’t outrun a thoroughbred, we will do two things, in precisely this order:

1) try harder, and then

2) lose.
 
#35
#35
The problem with relying just on effort - effort was not going to beat UCONN, UCLA, LSU and South Carolina. And effort along will not beat those teams next year.

Those teams were better coached, prepared with a way to combat the chaos and fast pace and play smartly.

Not necessarily downplaying effort but do you all want to be the team that played with the best effort but lost half their games? You have to combine effort with having talent that can compete with your opponent, with in game adjustments when things are not working.

Once again - I just don't think CKC is good at considering the elephant on the court - aka the opponent. I do think at Glenville the opponent didn't matter - but in D1 in the SEC it does.
What are some examples of adjustments that you would make?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orange.
#36
#36
For more than a year I have been repeatedly asking the question, “What is the plan when the KC system isn’t working?” You have given KC's answer:


This approach is the equivalent of saying that we are a one trick pony, and when that pony can’t outrun a thoroughbred, we will do two things, in precisely this order:

1) try harder, and then

2) lose.
What was the plan when UCONN got whipped by SC or SC got whipped by UCLA?
 
#37
#37
I wasn’t suggesting that Marshall should have won. But if you watch the game, when Georgia Amore starts slicing up the press, Marshall didn’t change the way they played. They were going to play the same way without regard to the opponent.
And, as that game progressed, Kim had the memory of MANY games where her teams got down -- where the other team was "slicing up the press" -- and then came back and won, including the game where Glenville State won the D2 national championship. That same thing also happened in the 2024-25 season in some of the close games they lost against top-tier SEC teams. So, she is used to seeing swings. She's said that, and told the team to expect that. What kills this approach is if the players quit trying to run the press with the effort it requires. And, as she famously said, she gave up on her system with this team, so she can't blame them for it.

Now, that said, that doesn't mean there may not be ways to adjust the press when one player or one particular attack pattern is shredding it. I'm just not enough of a basketball savant to analyze that from watching games on TV. I do know some posters on here have suggested there are variations in the presses that the LVs have run under Kim, but, again, just out of my depth in commenting on that.
 
#38
#38
What was the plan when UCONN got whipped by SC or SC got whipped by UCLA?
I'm afraid I don’t get whatever point you are trying to make.
I didn’t see the UCLA game, so I can only go by press reports. According to those, UCLA was much more efficient in its offense.
What adjustments were made by either team at the half?

As to South Carolina and Uconn, the former's defense stifled the Huskies in the first half. Both teams made adjustments to start the third quarter. Dawn's were much more effective.

The important point is that the team that was struggling did not come out in Q 3 trying to do more of what didn’t work in Q 1 and Q 2. They tried to adjust. They were outplayed and arguably out-coached. Had they not tried to adjust, it’s likely they would have lost by a greater margin.

This ain’t rocket science. When your system is failing you can try something different. There’s no guarantee it will produce a win. But if you keep doing what hasn’t worked, odds are you will lose for sure.
 
#39
#39
I'm afraid I don’t get whatever point you are trying to make.
I didn’t see the UCLA game, so I can only go by press reports. According to those, UCLA was much more efficient in its offense.
What adjustments were made by either team at the half?

As to South Carolina and Uconn, the former's defense stifled the Huskies in the first half. Both teams made adjustments to start the third quarter. Dawn's were much more effective.

The important point is that the team that was struggling did not come out in Q 3 trying to do more of what didn’t work in Q 1 and Q 2. They tried to adjust. They were outplayed and arguably out-coached. Had they not tried to adjust, it’s likely they would have lost by a greater margin.

This ain’t rocket science. When your system is failing you can try something different. There’s no guarantee it will produce a win. But if you keep doing what hasn’t worked, odds are you will lose for sure.
Also it probably helps to have more than one approach and not to have told the world that you'll never play any other way. When you apologize for having done so as a grave mistake and the sole reason for a historically horrible season, it sort of gives the game away in advance. Our coach thinks complete predictability is an adjustment advantage.
 
#40
#40
Effort. Mmm, how do coaches coach effort? The answer from any really big time coach is: NEVER. Effort should be evaluated during the recruiting process, watching them perform previous to becoming a college player. Effort should not have to be questioned by a healthy player, no matter what level is being played. Players that don't show up every game is a player that doesn't deserve to wear a D1 uniform. Elite players give effort every minute they are on the floor, even if injured. Real coaches know that a computer ranking doesn't tell the entire story about a player, just their talent, not their effort or ability to play well with others.
Real recruiting takes a lot of time, something this coach does not have. Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tnphil
#41
#41
Effort. Mmm, how do coaches coach effort? The answer from any really big time coach is: NEVER. Effort should be evaluated during the recruiting process, watching them perform previous to becoming a college player. Effort should not have to be questioned by a healthy player, no matter what level is being played. Players that don't show up every game is a player that doesn't deserve to wear a D1 uniform. Elite players give effort every minute they are on the floor, even if injured. Real coaches know that a computer ranking doesn't tell the entire story about a player, just their talent, not their effort or ability to play well with others.
Real recruiting takes a lot of time, something this coach does not have. Good luck.
Which is exactly what basketball analysts of her system have been saying - effort and endurance will not be separators at this level. But her complete blind obsession causes her not to be able to hear this, nor the other plain common sense reasons that no one else uses this system.
 
#42
#42
Idk but we should have moved on... bet we miss tournament next year little too no interest from any good top players right now just mid majors
Best teams to sign players off the squad which quit midseason are Rutgers and Ole Miss. What's your point here exactly? LOL

We have moved on. On to players we are paying money to who will actually hustle next season.
 
#43
#43
I'm afraid I don’t get whatever point you are trying to make.
I didn’t see the UCLA game, so I can only go by press reports. According to those, UCLA was much more efficient in its offense.
What adjustments were made by either team at the half?

As to South Carolina and Uconn, the former's defense stifled the Huskies in the first half. Both teams made adjustments to start the third quarter. Dawn's were much more effective.

The important point is that the team that was struggling did not come out in Q 3 trying to do more of what didn’t work in Q 1 and Q 2. They tried to adjust. They were outplayed and arguably out-coached. Had they not tried to adjust, it’s likely they would have lost by a greater margin.

This ain’t rocket science. When your system is failing you can try something different. There’s no guarantee it will produce a win. But if you keep doing what hasn’t worked, odds are you will lose for sure.
What halftime adjustments did SC make?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orange.
#46
#46
And, as that game progressed, Kim had the memory of MANY games where her teams got down -- where the other team was "slicing up the press" -- and then came back and won, including the game where Glenville State won the D2 national championship. That same thing also happened in the 2024-25 season in some of the close games they lost against top-tier SEC teams. So, she is used to seeing swings. She's said that, and told the team to expect that. What kills this approach is if the players quit trying to run the press with the effort it requires. And, as she famously said, she gave up on her system with this team, so she can't blame them for it.

Now, that said, that doesn't mean there may not be ways to adjust the press when one player or one particular attack pattern is shredding it. I'm just not enough of a basketball savant to analyze that from watching games on TV. I do know some posters on here have suggested there are variations in the presses that the LVs have run under Kim, but, again, just out of my depth in commenting on that.

Once again CKC ignores the opponent - expecting that the opponent will be (1) worn down or (2) stop what is working during the game.

She does not rely on her skills as a coach to inject change to force those swings to happen. Rather it is "work harder" just keep "working harder" and "maybe" good things will start happening. And if good things don't happen, it is because the players did not "work hard enough".

Too much of it is based on the idea that by going fast the other team will run out of steam - but they don't - in most games it was the LV's that looked like they were out of steam. That is because the other team was not forced to actually play fast because they deployed tactics and played smart.
 
#47
#47
I'm afraid I don’t get whatever point you are trying to make.
I didn’t see the UCLA game, so I can only go by press reports. According to those, UCLA was much more efficient in its offense.
What adjustments were made by either team at the half?

As to South Carolina and Uconn, the former's defense stifled the Huskies in the first half. Both teams made adjustments to start the third quarter. Dawn's were much more effective.

The important point is that the team that was struggling did not come out in Q 3 trying to do more of what didn’t work in Q 1 and Q 2. They tried to adjust. They were outplayed and arguably out-coached. Had they not tried to adjust, it’s likely they would have lost by a greater margin.

This ain’t rocket science. When your system is failing you can try something different. There’s no guarantee it will produce a win. But if you keep doing what hasn’t worked, odds are you will lose for sure.
South Caroline’s adjustment was Dawn getting on her team to be more aggressive on defense. Her team played “harder” in the second half leading to more stops and opportunities to run. Most coaches only make subtle changes during the game and don’t make very big changes at all.

Several coaches teach man and hate going to a zone defense. Rick Barnes is one example of that. A zone gives up easy baskets if the team is not use to playing it and it is also bad for rebounding.

We have Kim and we win if her style is successful. If not, she will be fired and the next coach will get a chance.
 
#48
#48
South Caroline’s adjustment was Dawn getting on her team to be more aggressive on defense. Her team played “harder” in the second half leading to more stops and opportunities to run. Most coaches only make subtle changes during the game and don’t make very big changes at all.

Several coaches teach man and hate going to a zone defense. Rick Barnes is one example of that. A zone gives up easy baskets if the team is not use to playing it and it is also bad for rebounding.

We have Kim and we win if her style is successful. If not, she will be fired and the next coach will get a chance.
They adjusted slightly before half by going zone. Although they don't use the zone much, it did slow UCLA ever so slightly. Not enough.

SC was flat basically that entire game. Extremely flat. And UCLA was the better team.

There weren't major changes to volbeats's point but you could definitely see adjustments occurring. Never seemed like they had the Scout right on this one from the beginning though vs how effectively they scouted UConn, which I guess kind of proves some of the point. There were different adjustments and considerations needed for each team.
 
#50
#50
We have Kim and we win if her style is successful.
On a superficial level that sounds just right. But how do we define
successful?
- the team is aggressive on defense, creates turnovers, shoots quickly from 3 point land and wins?
or
- the team is aggressive on defense, creates turnovers, shoots quickly from 3 point land and loses because the opponent turns us over just as many times and scores more fast break points?
or
- the team follows KC's system and wins because the other team is a creampuff?
- we do everything Kim asks, except convert on FTs, and lose by a point?

If we say her style is successful every time we win, and declare it unsuccessful when we don’t, then we will have created a useless truism.

I believe the true test is whether we follow her system closely against the top four or five SEC teams and win the majority of those games.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ScreamingEagleVol

Advertisement



Back
Top