Kiffin Proven Wrong About Talent...

#151
#151
if Crompton played the whole season like he did the second half we would have beat UCLA Florida and Auburn.
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Nobody ever mentions Alabama as a game we should of won last year, when by all accounts we won in every single aspect of the game, except the final score.

Crompton playing the first half of the season the way he did in the second would not of really mattered vs Auburn & Florida IMO, the defense couldn't get a stop at any crucial time. Auburn cut through us like a knife through hot butter, and Florida played like garbage and still had the game won halfway through the third quarter, because the D couldn't get off the field. That bend but don't break defense has kept the Tennessee defense on the field far too long the last few years.

Every body wants to say Monte laid the blueprint to beat the Florida offense, I don't know when these people started watching SEC football, but I seen Coach O's Ole Miss team in 07 slow that Florida team for the first time. It was the first time I seen that confused look on Meyer's face. Houston Nutt won the next year against Florida using the same defense that O ran, and a good offensive strategy.

Who would ya'll rather have as a HFC, Houston Nutt or DD? I bet 90% say Nutt.
 
#152
#152
The Frozen Shield said:
Nobody ever mentions Alabama as a game we should of won last year, when by all accounts we won in every single aspect of the game, except the final score.

Crompton playing the first half of the season the way he did in the second would not of really mattered vs Auburn & Florida IMO, the defense couldn't get a stop at any crucial time. Auburn cut through us like a knife through hot butter, and Florida played like garbage and still had the game won halfway through the third quarter, because the D couldn't get off the field. That bend but don't break defense has kept the Tennessee defense on the field far too long the last few years.

Every body wants to say Monte laid the blueprint to beat the Florida offense, I don't know when these people started watching SEC football, but I seen Coach O's Ole Miss team in 07 slow that Florida team for the first time. It was the first time I seen that confused look on Meyer's face. Houston Nutt won the next year against Florida using the same defense that O ran, and a good offensive strategy.

Who would ya'll rather have as a HFC, Houston Nutt or DD? I bet 90% say Nutt.
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I would rather have an unknown than Nutt.
 
#153
#153
kptvol said:
The UCLA and Auburn games could have gone a lot differently if Crompton had played as well early as he did late. And the Auburn game was exactly the type of game that a UT team from recent years would normally let become a blowout. Instead, they kept in it and managed to make the final deficit a number that could have been overcome if Daniel Lincoln had made his kicks.
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^ this

It's amazing how people forgot that Crompton was still horrible until the 4th quarter of the Auburn game. The same people made at Kiffin for trying to run the ball against UCLA are the same people that would be pissed if he would have called a pass and Crompton threw it straight into the ground.
 
#154
#154
The OP is exactly right; and a lot of us mentioned it during the season.

The notion that everyone "came good" under Kiffin is astonishingly idealogical. Occam's razor - it's called being a senior and having the leadership role thrust upon you. It's being the clear #1 for the first time. It's become more obvious why it was difficult to separate Foster and Hardesty for all those years too, as Arian became the starter for Houston in the biggest game of their franchise.

It's Occam's razor on 2005 and 2008 as well, and everyone should have seen it with their own eyes this year: QB play matters. I think 2005 should have been legendary with that defense; one stupid play against Notre Dame the year before ruined it. And Phil allowed one of his most loyal assistants to fall on his sword because of it. I don't think the Butterfly Effect could be more concretely crystalized in a real-world situation.

The idealogical hatred of Phil Fulmer is misplaced. He is a Hall-of-Fame Coach who teased us with the possibility of being Legendary. That's why there is so much hate. He wasn't quite Legendary; maybe it was fate, maybe Nick Saban is just a better coach than everybody else.
 
#155
#155
timmy said:
^ this

It's amazing how people forgot that Crompton was still horrible until the 4th quarter of the Auburn game. The same people made at Kiffin for trying to run the ball against UCLA are the same people that would be pissed if he would have called a pass and Crompton threw it straight into the ground.
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I was mad at Kiffin for trying to throw during the UCLA game (and at Clawson the year before).

Now, the question becomes, with a year of continuity under Phil and the Clawfense, would Crompton have come good before the 4th quarter Auburn?

This poster says an emphatic "YES."

(And thus, Hammy should be fired)
 
#156
#156
You have to be a very odd person to want to praise Kiffin alone for Crompton's play. Sure, he certainly helped, but if the guy couldn't play then he wouldn't have fooled various offensive coordinators and two coaches. The talent was always there. I think there is more blame than credit to go around. Fulmer and his staff(s) failed big time at bringing out Crompton's talents and made no effort at all to tailor the offense to him.

Kiffin and staff actually worked with him like any competent staff should have. And voila! I think some are just amazed that one of our highly rated recruits actually performed like it for half a season. We aren't used to that at UT unless they start out like Eric Berry. I will not praise Kiffin too much for doing what any coach should though. It is the job. That is a job that Dolley had best be up to as well. I love the fact that Crompton got drafted. Maybe he will see some action one day and turn some heads. JC is not a quitter.
 
#158
#158
Volfan8282 said:
No, the problem is that you have zero ability to judge coaching. Congratulations.
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So what do you measure coaching by? NFL says we had more veteran talent than 4 of the teams who beat us, including two losses at home and two embarrassing losses away from home; recruiting analysts said the same thing before the season started; and Vegas had us as favorites in 9 of 13 games. Even the SEC coaches had the players some of our selective-minded fans claim were talentless before Kiffin arrives (Scott, McClendon & D. Williams made all-SEC teams -- pre-season!)

But you're right -- it's whatever the Fulmer-haters/Kiffin kiddies subjectively think because that way they can ignore ever single piece of objective evidence, then call anyone who points out the objective evidence uniformly shows they're wrong, as "idiots." If you want to find an idiot, find a mirror.
 
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#159
#159
The Frozen Shield said:
Kiffin did make it seem as if Tennessee never had a player drafted to the NFL, but he did a good job actually getting the players to play up to and beyond there potential. Unlike CPF.

Favored to win 9 times, but only won 7? How many games was we favored to win in 08. Kiffin isn't a lousy coach, he was a lousy choice for the job.
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We were only favored in 5 games in 2008.
 
#160
#160
Dr Dread said:
I'm wondering if some of you guys are going to use this same logic when evaluating CDD next season. The list of players that will show significant production improvements this season will be quite long. We can start with T. Poole.
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Hypocritical standards are a key criterion for the Kiffin kiddies, so don't bet on it. Just as they conveniently forget all the players who receded, or we lost to injury, or we loss to off-field issues or on-field issues including, or who stayed relegated to the bench or left in disgust...Vlad Richard, Josh McNeil, T. Poole, B.J. Coleman, Creer, and even their own recruit, Myles. If a coach is "responsible" for a player's "improvement" on or off the field, how are they not equally responsible for those who recede or regress?
 
#161
#161
What many of you are failing to acknowledge is how important that player's POSITION coach plays in their improvement. These are the guys who are "hands on" with the players day in and day out. Not the head coach. Did anyone stop to consider that Eddie Gran might have had something to do with Hardesty's great year? What about Orgeron? Would Dan Williams have been so highly touted were it not for his coaching?? Would Chris Scott have been as good as he was were it not for Jim Chaney?

You guys are so zeroed in on Kiffin but don't forget, for better or worse he didn't do it all by himself you know. For all the criticism that Fulmer has enured, don't forget a lot of that is also attributed to some of his lousy hiring decisions for his staff and not holding them more accountable.

A head coach is only as good as the staff he surrounds himself with.
 
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#163
#163
VegasVol said:
The 2009 roster lost just one draft pick off the roster and added several more with the talent to be just that (J. Jackson, Brown, Aaron Douglas, Lathers, etc). We had a more talented team with a simpler more talent-conforming offensive scheme. Yet, we had the 3rd worst season we've had in 20 years. As Clay Travis noted, we were Vegas favorites to win 9 times, and two of those underdog games were to less-talented teams by NFL draft standards.

The problem in 2009 was a lousy HC not a lack of talent.
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:lolabove::lolabove:

I'll buy that, but if we were so loaded with talent why did the Pumpkin lose enough games to get run out of town?Could it be Lousy HC? Nope Phil let the talent drain down was his problem. Kiff is a lousy HC and that was his problem.
 
#164
#164
111262mg said:
:lolabove::lolabove:

I'll buy that, but if we were so loaded with talent why did the Pumpkin lose enough games to get run out of town?Could it be Lousy HC? Nope Phil let the talent drain down was his problem. Kiff is a lousy HC and that was his problem.
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Hear! Hear! Finally someone that gets it!!!! Two different problems with similar results! If there are any Kiffin fans left,he will show why he is the Calipari of College football without the history or wins. Everybody wanted to compare him to Spurrier, not even close. Both have too much mouth,but Kiff wouldn't make a pimple on Spurrier's a$$ when it comes to coaching!!!! Monte will suffer from a similar fate that Phil did when he runs into those psycho offenses in the Pac 10. Wilcox,however will cause some serious problems in the SEC. Give it a little time and we will be back challenging for the SEC title, and as far as next season goes: I think we have a chance to dominate defensively and that will help the rest of the team,ask the old Bama teams that won championships with zero offense. If they can't score on you, they can't beat you! Removing orange glasses and putting down the Koolaide now, time for church!
 
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#166
#166
volmanbill said:
Dude. Seriously?
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Which part do you have a problem with? I expect our defense to be very solid,maybe not dominant but very good! As far as the rest of my comment about the coaches, its all evident by their records ( spurrier,fulmer both with NC's and Kiff has won 7 more games as a college coach than you,LMFAO!!!!! Go back to bed!
 
#167
#167
111262mg said:
:lolabove::lolabove:

I'll buy that, but if we were so loaded with talent why did the Pumpkin lose enough games to get run out of town?Could it be Lousy HC? Nope Phil let the talent drain down was his problem. Kiff is a lousy HC and that was his problem.
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Phil lost because the talent was down while Kiffin was just a lousy coach? So in Kiffin's first season the team was somehow already more talented than the last few years under Fulmer?
 
#168
#168
Smokeybluetick said:
Which part do you have a problem with? I expect our defense to be very solid,maybe not dominant but very good! As far as the rest of my comment about the coaches, its all evident by their records ( spurrier,fulmer both with NC's and Kiff has won 7 more games as a college coach than you,LMFAO!!!!! Go back to bed!
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I think he has a problem with the fact that you posted. :) J/K

I agree with most everything you said. Monte isn't going to struggle in the Pac-10 though. He didn't struggle in his 144 years in the NFL so I don't know why you would think he'd struggle there. Kiffin's main concern is that Daddy isn't going to be there for very long and there isn't a guy on staff (hell, anywhere as far as matching Monte) that's good enough to take over the coordinator position when he leaves. That will expose some things.
 
#169
#169
Smokeybluetick said:
Hear! Hear! Finally someone that gets it!!!!
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pretty cool you found someone who agrees completely with you. That guy's 1 post came just in time huh?

Smokeybluetick said:
Everybody wanted to compare him to Spurrier, not even close. Both have too much mouth,but Kiff wouldn't make a pimple on Spurrier's a$$ when it comes to coaching!!!!
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Kiffin v Spurrier didn't turn out so well for the ol ball coach. I doubt they'll meet again though
 
#170
#170
utgibbs said:
I was mad at Kiffin for trying to throw during the UCLA game (and at Clawson the year before).

Now, the question becomes, with a year of continuity under Phil and the Clawfense, would Crompton have come good before the 4th quarter Auburn?

This poster says an emphatic "YES."

(And thus, Hammy should be fired)
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Had Phil been retained for 2009, Clawson still wouldn't be around. And I see no reason Crompton would have progressed. He didn't get any better for four years. Do you really think something just happened in year five that was unrelated to the offensive staff turnover? Also, it's not like Phil's staff was committed to fixing Crompton like Chaney and Kiffin were. Stephens got a lot of PT, and even a guy that flat out couldn't throw in BJ Coleman got to take the field.
 
#171
#171
VegasVol said:
So what do you measure coaching by? NFL says we had more veteran talent than 4 of the teams who beat us, including two losses at home and two embarrassing losses away from home; recruiting analysts said the same thing before the season started; and Vegas had us as favorites in 9 of 13 games. Even the SEC coaches had the players some of our selective-minded fans claim were talentless before Kiffin arrives (Scott, McClendon & D. Williams made all-SEC teams -- pre-season!)

But you're right -- it's whatever the Fulmer-haters/Kiffin kiddies subjectively think because that way they can ignore ever single piece of objective evidence, then call anyone who points out the objective evidence uniformly shows they're wrong, as "idiots." If you want to find an idiot, find a mirror.
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Well hell. If we had seven good players we should have gone undefeated. Damn that Kiffin.
 
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#172
#172
And I don't care how you feel about Kiffin, Fulmer, or Dooley - if you try to use Jon Crompton getting drafted as a negative for Kiffin you need to be drug into the street and shot.
 
#173
#173
kptvol said:
And I don't care how you feel about Kiffin, Fulmer, or Dooley - if you try to use Jon Crompton getting drafted as a negative for Kiffin you need to be drug into the street and shot.
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Flogged, maybe. Given a mark of shame, perhaps. Certainly roughed up. But I think we Vols need to start distancing ourselves from firearm incidents. :)
 
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