Kiffin on if Butch's program is in the right direction

#126
#126
IknoxvolsI said:
Maybe, but by that logic CBJ should have beaten Okla, Fla and Ark in '05 and aTm, USCe and Vandy last year!
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Let it go man. Its football. You dont win every game you're supposed to. Your boy Kiffin lost some games he was supposed to win in his 1 single season but you're not bringing that up. We also had the lead in the 4th qtr against Bama in '15 but you haven't mentioned that yet either. But yet you hype Kiffin because he 'almost' beat Bama. Your agenda is pretty clear. As is your intelligence level.
 
#127
#127
IknoxvolsI said:
They are valid points.

Can you argue a defense of those points?
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Can I argue that Jones has not been perfect and has let some games slip away? Sure can't. I was actually pretty livid at times last year when those losses occurred. What baffles me is the people who continually bash our head coach and give no credit to the improvements he's made to our program. You can read through the forums and see some of those same people trashing Fulmer. But, those posters can somehow find a way to show Laney boy some love.

If Jones keeps letting games slip away, he should and will be gone. But, I'm not going to ignore the job he's done, the wins over Georgia and Florida, the recruiting, and the fact that we've actually been competitive. I'm not a sunshine pumper, but the constant negativity is exhausting.
 
#128
#128
K-town Vol Fan said:
Let it go man. Its football. You dont win every game you're supposed to. Your boy Kiffin lost some games he was supposed to win in his 1 single season but you're not bringing that up. We also had the lead in the 4th qtr against Bama in '15 but you haven't mentioned that yet either. But yet you hype Kiffin because he 'almost' beat Bama. Your agenda is pretty clear. As is your intelligence level.
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Oh but I have broght that up. If you will go back and read my posts, you will see where I said we should have won the UCLA game and the bowl.

I'm not going to get into a sparring session with you or start hurling insults. That's beneath me.
 
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#129
#129
TJ1985 said:
Can I argue that Jones has not been perfect and has let some games slip away? Sure can't. I was actually pretty livid at times last year when those losses occurred. What baffles me is the people who continually bash our head coach and give no credit to the improvements he's made to our program. You can read through the forums and see some of those same people trashing Fulmer. But, those posters can somehow find a way to show Laney boy some love.

If Jones keeps letting games slip away, he should and will be gone. But, I'm not going to ignore the job he's done, the wins over Georgia and Florida, the recruiting, and the fact that we've actually been competitive. I'm not a sunshine pumper, but the constant negativity is exhausting.
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Quite frankly, I agree with you. He has done alot and he has been paid alot to do what he has done.

But, my point is he should have accomplished more. Specifically in the W-L columnn.
 
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#130
#130
IknoxvolsI said:
But, my point is he should have accomplished more. Specifically in the W-L columnn.
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I agree with you but that doesnt have anything to do with Kiffin. His recruiting class that left is what propelled us further into destruction. He ran ran USC into the ground. Yeah he had success at Bama as OC but lets be honest you and I could call plays for Bama and look good. Their talent gap is phenomenal.

So this notion that if he would have stayed here he would have had success just boggles my mind. The 09 team was talented. Eric Berry, Rico McCoy, Luke Stocker, Dallas Thomas. You could easily argue he should have won more than 7 games. There were multiple NFL starters on that team including a HoF safety.
 
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#131
#131
IknoxvolsI said:
Quite frankly, I agree with you. He has done alot and he has been paid alot to do what he has done.

But, my point is he should have accomplished more. Specifically in the W-L columnn.
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I won't argue that. Vandy and SC were inexcusable. Many more of those and he'll be gone. However, rather than focus on 2 games, I'll look at his body of work, which has improved since he's been here.
 
#132
#132
K-town Vol Fan said:
I agree with you but that doesnt have anything to do with Kiffin. His recruiting class that left is what propelled us further into destruction. He ran ran USC into the ground. Yeah he had success at Bama as OC but lets be honest you and I could call plays for Bama and look good. Their talent gap is phenomenal.

So this notion that if he would have stayed here he would have had success just boggles my mind. The 09 team was talented. Eric Berry, Rico McCoy, Luke Stocker, Dallas Thomas. You could easily argue he should have won more than 7 games. There were multiple NFL starters on that team including a HoF safety.
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I'm not argueing your points. They are valid. I do however think had he stayed we would have never fallen into the abyss we did. I'm not saying that because we ended up getting Dooley either.

Now, this is purely opinion without conjecture. Had he stayed I think a/the bulk of his recruiting class would have stayed and he would have built upon that. I think he would have had the other coaches in place and he would have let them coach. I also think had he had this exact team the past two years he would have won 4-5 more games than Jones, over the past two years.
 
#133
#133
IknoxvolsI said:
I'm not argueing your points. They are valid. I do however think had he stayed we would have never fallen into the abyss we did. I'm not saying that because we ended up getting Dooley either.

Now, this is purely opinion without conjecture. Had he stayed I think a/the bulk of his recruiting class would have stayed and he would have built upon that. I think he would have had the other coaches in place and he would have let them coach. I also think had he had this exact team the past two years he would have won 4-5 more games than Jones, over the past two years.
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I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Kiffin has shown me nothing whatsoever that leads me to believe hes a better coach than CBJ. Especially not 2 wins per season better. You may think CBJ is failing or will fail at UT and he could, but the fact is LK already has failed at USC. Horribly. At his dream job.
 
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#134
#134
K-town Vol Fan said:
I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Kiffin has shown me nothing whatsoever that leads me to believe hes a better coach than CBJ. Especially not 2 wins per season better. You may think CBJ is failing or will fail at UT and he could, but the fact is LK already has failed at USC. Horribly. At his dream job.
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This.
 
#143
#143
Behr said:
Some, like me, feel this way about Butch. Am I loyal to Butch over the program?
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No, not if you're truly taking this approach.

Support the coach only to the extent that he's helping your program get better and win. When you can't be critical and discerning about where he's failed and not met expectations, where he's hurt the program, then that's the problem. Not at all saying that's you, just trying to define where the "line" is.

There are plenty on here who do nothing but ***** and moan about those of us have the program's best interest in mind rather than the current head coach....those are the guys who cross the line or don't even know the line is imho.
 
#145
#145
KBVol said:
No, not if you're truly taking this approach.

Support the coach only to the extent that he's helping your program get better and win. When you can't be critical and discerning about where he's failed and not met expectations, where he's hurt the program, then that's the problem. Not at all saying that's you, just trying to define where the "line" is.

There are plenty on here who do nothing but ***** and moan about those of us have the program's best interest in mind rather than the current head coach....those are the guys who cross the line or don't even know the line is imho.
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That's your line and your definition.

Those plenty have made it clear they B&M at those who constantly beat down with no discretion the coach that is part of and responsible for the program that is in the best interest in all of our minds. "Those of us" don't have a monopoly on it. I guarantee you won't find one of those plenty that care more about Butch than the program.

I think you know all of this, not sure why you and others want to make it a fawking issue. :crazy:
 
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#146
#146
Here is the real question about CBJ. Does Anyone truly know where his ceiling is at? No.. they don't.

Just like any other employee at any job he has to continue to change and grow as a coach.

I personally feel he is trying to improve in many areas. He is a tireless recruiter and doesn't rest on successfully putting together one good class. I feel he saw weaknesses in some of his assistants and has attempted to make the necessary changes to improve the staff. Can anyone honestly say we don't have a better overall staff now than when he was hired? Scott and Shoop both have a lot to prove this year and I have a feeling they will do just fine if everyone stays relatively healthy.

That leaves his game day coaching as the final question. Will he improve and change? Make better decisions? Who knows for sure because the ONLY way to tell is let it play out. He will either get better and win more games and everyone be happy or he won't and be shown the door and some of you will still be happy.

Everyone is judged on their performance at their job. I know I'm not perfect and haven't Always made the right decision.Evidently according to some of you if I do 95 to 97 percent of my job really really well and screw up the remaining 3 to 5 percent I should be fired. How realistic is that? Even Saban screws up, just with better talent.

Again the shovel is in his hands, he can either dig himself out or bury himself.
 
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#147
#147
IknoxvolsI said:
Luck is the QB (Arkansas-98) dropping the ball.
Breaks is a LB jarring it loose.

Luck is a starting RB (Florida-01) being put out the week before.

Breaks is your team putting the starting QB & RB (LSU-01) out of the game. Lol-but still couldn't win.

Luck is the Referee calling a personal foul (Florida-04) even though both teams had players slap each other.

There are plenty of other examples.
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what was the term for the ref calling Gaffneys TD ?
 
#149
#149
buckfama said:
Here is the real question about CBJ. Does Anyone truly know where his ceiling is at? No.. they don't.

Just like any other employee at any job he has to continue to change and grow as a coach.

I personally feel he is trying to improve in many areas. He is a tireless recruiter and doesn't rest on successfully putting together one good class. I feel he saw weaknesses in some of his assistants and has attempted to make the necessary changes to improve the staff. Can anyone honestly say we don't have a better overall staff now than when he was hired? Scott and Shoop both have a lot to prove this year and I have a feeling they will do just fine if everyone stays relatively healthy.

That leaves his game day coaching as the final question. Will he improve and change? Make better decisions? Who knows for sure because the ONLY way to tell is let it play out. He will either get better and win more games and everyone be happy or he won't and be shown the door and some of you will still be happy.

Everyone is judged on their performance at their job. I know I'm not perfect and haven't Always made the right decision.Evidently according to some of you if I do 95 to 97 percent of my job really really well and screw up the remaining 3 to 5 percent I should be fired. How realistic is that? Even Saban screws up, just with better talent.

Again the shovel is in his hands, he can either dig himself out or bury himself.
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CBJ is conservative. He relies on proper execution of his conservative game plans to win games. There is little room for error due to his conservative nature.

121 may be the team he loosens the chain.

#RTB
 
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