Kiffin got Fulmer fired so he could get the Tennessee job

#26
#26
VolFreakJosh said:
Hiring Kiffin over Gary Patterson whom wanted the job at the time, was the start of our downfall imo.
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Don’t think that’s debatable at all. I’ll always believe we could’ve won a championship with Patterson-he took TCU to heights anyone would’ve considered impossible before he took over. Imagine what he would have done with our resources.
 
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#27
#27
HeuperDrive said:
Don’t think that’s debatable at all. I’ll always believe we could’ve won a championship with Patterson-he took TCU to heights anyone would’ve considered impossible before he took over. Imagine what he would have done with our resources.
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Yep.

Unfortunately, Hamilton didn’t think he could handle the “Big Stage” at the time.

At the end of the day, he got the last laugh.
 
#28
#28
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Again, his choices led to him not having better opportunities. He blew the opportunity here and if he settles into a Mike Leach-esque role in the lower echelon on the SEC, that's not a bad career by any means but he had chances and he blew it.

He's not a bad coach. He's a good coach who makes lousy decisions. Think Sark except Sark learned from his mistakes and look at TX before Sark got there. There's the contrast with Kiffin. Kiffin screwed up and never really came back. Sark screwed up and will possibly get his Natty this year.
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Lane makes $9 million/year at Ole Miss and is winning 9-10 games a year at a school that does not have a great football history, and is a folk hero there. Sark is making $10.8 million/year at Texas, and currently doing great, but will be on the hot seat the minute he misses the CFP a couple of times and perpetually has to deal with all the politics entailed with that job. I'd say Lane's got a pretty good opportunity at OM, especially considering that he's at a place that lets him show his personality.

Sark currently has the more prestigious job, sure, and post-personal problems is more buttoned up than Lane is, but I wouldn't take that to mean that Lane is underachieving.
 
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#29
#29
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
How many other coaches at a young age had the advantages Kiffin had? Taken under Saban's wing and got an SEC HC job very early.

He had advantages and he blew it. Now, I doubt an SEC team with a chance of a Natty wants to take him. He's not a bad coach, like Mike Leach wasn't a bad coach, but he's not a high value coach serious schools like LSU or Bama or UT will take a chance on now.

Apples to apples, he's an SEC coach and that means he's better than most P4 coaches but given where he was when he was younger, he missed the next gear.
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1 of the 3 ain't like the others...
 
#30
#30
05_never_again said:
Lane makes $9 million/year at Ole Miss and is winning 9-10 games a year at a school that does not have a great football history, and is a folk hero there. Sark is making $10.8 million/year at Texas, and currently doing great, but will be on the hot seat the minute he misses the CFP a couple of times and perpetually has to deal with all the politics entailed with that job. I'd say Lane's got a pretty good opportunity at OM, especially considering that he's at a place that lets him show his personality.

Sark currently has the more prestigious job, sure, and post-personal problems is more buttoned up than Lane is, but I wouldn't take that to mean that Lane is underachieving.
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Kiffin is making good money and he's loved in Oxford, just as Mike Leach was in Starksville. And exactly correct, like Leach, Kiffin can be funny and quirky and have lots of personality.

You're making my point that Kiffin is a Leach-esque coach. Not bad by any means as coaches go but not a high level SEC coach. He's mid, at best, for all the hype and advantages he had in his youth.

He's not achieved like he should have and like other coaches his age have who had the hype he has had. So yeah, he can continue to be mid at Ole Miss for years and be loved and be the King of Oxford. That's where everyone pictured him at 50, eh?
 
#31
#31
So Kiffin got Fulmer fired the first time. Who got Fulmer fired the second time? I bet Kiffin had something to do with that too.
 
#33
#33
hUTch2002 said:
Typical for you Lane lover.

Sorry, I just didn’t want you to be disappointed if no one said anything. I actually don’t get why people get so emotional about Kiffin, in either direction. He’s a good, not great, coach who left us a bad spot back in his younger days. Past that, he’s pretty entertaining to listen to, almost like Spurrier back in his days.
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I thought it was kinda weird that neither of them mentioned spurrier when they were patting themselves on the back so hard for Kiffin being different. Spurrier was a lot funnier than Kiffin. It was the right moment for one of them to say "he's the king" and it seemed like they were both just so stupid that they literally couldn't bring anything about it to mind.
 
#34
#34
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Kiffin is making good money and he's loved in Oxford, just as Mike Leach was in Starksville. And exactly correct, like Leach, Kiffin can be funny and quirky and have lots of personality.

You're making my point that Kiffin is a Leach-esque coach. Not bad by any means as coaches go but not a high level SEC coach. He's mid, at best, for all the hype and advantages he had in his youth.

He's not achieved like he should have and like other coaches his age have who had the hype he has had. So yeah, he can continue to be mid at Ole Miss for years and be loved and be the King of Oxford. That's where everyone pictured him at 50, eh?
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"Mid" at Ole Miss is not 44-18 in 5 seasons. He has an almost identical winning % at OM in 5 seasons as Heupel does at Tennessee (.710 vs. .711), and OM is a much tougher place to win.

Had a 12-team playoff been around, he would have made it in 2021 and 2023. Heup would have made one in 2022 and did make one last year, so they're even on CFP appearances. He's been way better at OM than Leach was at Miss St.
 
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#35
#35
05_never_again said:
"Mid" at Ole Miss is not 44-18 in 5 seasons. He has an almost identical winning % at OM in 5 seasons as Heupel does at Tennessee (.710 vs. .711), and OM is a much tougher place to win.

Had a 12-team playoff been around, he would have made it in 2021 and 2023. Heup would have made one in 2022 and did make one last year, so they're even on CFP appearances. He's been way better at OM than Leach was at Miss St.
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You don't seem to get it. Doing great at a mid school means there's a reason you're still at a mid school. Kiffin blew his potential and can't get hired despite whatever he does at Ole Miss.

Why is he still there? Because he's not a serious coach capable of handling serious challenges. Sark got TX because they believed in him. No school of substance believes in Kiffin so he might as well be the jolly interview, trolling media guy from Oxford. That's great. Let them pay him and enjoy his ceiling. It's a win-win.

He's not dangerous at Ole Miss except for his portal skills and that will dry up as multi year contracts develop. Good luck past that.
 
#36
#36
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You don't seem to get it. Doing great at a mid school means there's a reason you're still at a mid school. Kiffin blew his potential and can't get hired despite whatever he does at Ole Miss.

Why is he still there? Because he's not a serious coach capable of handling serious challenges. Sark got TX because they believed in him. No school of substance believes in Kiffin so he might as well be the jolly interview, trolling media guy from Oxford. That's great. Let them pay him and enjoy his ceiling. It's a win-win.

He's not dangerous at Ole Miss except for his portal skills and that will dry up as multi year contracts develop. Good luck past that.
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You said he's underachieving. At OM, he is not. That's more or less an objective statement given their history.

He definitely underachieved at USC, and threw away the opportunity he had here, but you started this off by saying that he "is underachieving." At his current job, he most certainly is not.

I thought he wasn't long for Oxford when he took that job, but at this point, he might not want to leave even if a bigger name school came calling. He's top 10 in the country in salary.
 
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#37
#37
05_never_again said:
You said he's underachieving. At OM, he is not. That's more or less an objective statement given their history.

He definitely underachieved at USC, and threw away the opportunity he had here, but you started this off by saying that he "is underachieving." At his current job, he most certainly is not.
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He's underachieved IN HIS CAREER. I made it clear that he was hyped as the "boy wonder" in the SEC and he is no longer young and has little to show for it. He's 50 and going nowhere.

He's underachieved for his potential. Like most folks, I don't give a damn who does what at Ole Miss...... why should I?

Edit: Ole Miss apparently won their last Natty in 1962. I'm old and I had to look it up so I knew it was a long time ago. It's where coaches go to exist, not excel. Kiffin will be fine there and he's well paid but he won't do much.
 
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#39
#39
Volizona said:
I don’t think Fulmer needed much help from Kiffin - he did just fine all by himself.
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Which time? I'd argue both. I think Fulmer going out ungraciously as he did was a bit of karma for the way he did Johnny. I'm not trying to start a debate and won't engage in one, it's just a thought.
 
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#40
#40
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Kiffin trying to fill the void left by Mike Leach being gone but The Pirate was genuinely quirky and funny without having to be an ass and ragging on other coaches.

They are similar coaches with some ideas about offense that are odd but useful, however Mike Leach was a genuine oddball who was very comfortable in his skin.

Lane Kiffin is underachieving so he's compensating with smartass humor poking at everyone except Lane Kiffin, usually. As always, you can't bring yourself up by knocking everyone else down.
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You have a valid point. Leach was just being himself-and it was awesome. Kiffin-it seems like most of his jokes have been tested by a focus group. There's just no emotion there-like he's just reading off cue cards.

Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread that Kiffin was just tormenting other SEC coaches. It works both ways. I mean Heupel is amusing at points with his Bobby Hill appearance and antics-but end of the day, the guy is a football coach through and through. What's gonna happen when Ole Miss falls off a bit or start running out of money to spend $15-$20 million/yr-that is gonna happen sooner rather than later.

Those coaches who Kiff has been "tormenting" are gonna put some biblical beatings on Ole Miss and Lane. Even Heupel has shown he's not above war crimes in running up scores when it serves a purpose. That is ultimately going to be Lanes downfall I would think
Nobody is gonna pull off the gas when they have the opportunity.
 
#41
#41
I have always thought Hamilton hired him because he was completely averse to Fulmer. I also think, at that time and moment, since we were moving on from Fulmer, CLK was a good choice because he was literally the opposite of.

Face it; we basically had 32 years of the same type of football which had become not only stagnated but costing games. Second, we had a young coach with two pedigrees-his father and USC NC’s. Third, he had a very good plan to get (us) Tennessee football back in the public domain.

I’m not a CLK apologist but he was a good choice for us at that time. Now, unless you are Ole Miss, Miss St., USCe or so on, you don’t hire him. He’s not going to get you a NC. May make you relevant but not a champion.
 
#44
#44
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Kiffin trying to fill the void left by Mike Leach being gone but The Pirate was genuinely quirky and funny without having to be an ass and ragging on other coaches.

They are similar coaches with some ideas about offense that are odd but useful, however Mike Leach was a genuine oddball who was very comfortable in his skin.

Lane Kiffin is underachieving so he's compensating with smartass humor poking at everyone except Lane Kiffin, usually. As always, you can't bring yourself up by knocking everyone else down.
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Did you even watch the interview? He cracked on himself multiple times.
 
#45
#45
Who was the coach Hamilton didn’t hire because he was too much of a coach? Was that Patterson?
 
#46
#46
#1fulmerite said:
Who was the coach Hamilton didn’t hire because he was too much of a coach? Was that Patterson?
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Yes. When Patterson met with Hamilton and some others to discuss the job, he said that he thought they'd already made their mind up about Kiffin and thought he "couldn't handle the big spot."
 
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#49
#49
#1fulmerite said:
I have always thought Hamilton hired him because he was completely averse to Fulmer. I also think, at that time and moment, since we were moving on from Fulmer, CLK was a good choice because he was literally the opposite of.

Face it; we basically had 32 years of the same type of football which had become not only stagnated but costing games. Second, we had a young coach with two pedigrees-his father and USC NC’s. Third, he had a very good plan to get (us) Tennessee football back in the public domain.

I’m not a CLK apologist but he was a good choice for us at that time. Now, unless you are Ole Miss, Miss St., USCe or so on, you don’t hire him. He’s not going to get you a NC. May make you relevant but not a champion.
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I know it's hindsight but Kiffin has said before he wishes he would have stayed at Tennessee. It really would have been interesting to see that because they were putting together a nice recruiting class when he bolted.
 
#50
#50
RandomUTfan said:
I know it's hindsight but Kiffin has said before he wishes he would have stayed at Tennessee. It really would have been interesting to see that because they were putting together a nice recruiting class when he bolted.
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I think he would have had a pretty good shot at winning the East at least once. He also undoubtedly would have landed us in a bunch of NCAA trouble eventually.

Take a look at the years that followed...the division was horrible overall in 2010. A 5-3 South Carolina won it and they were the only team that finished over .500 in SEC play. A good but not great UGA team won it in 2011. Missouri had good teams in 2013 and 2014, but they benefitted from the void left by the 3 power programs in the East not playing at a high level (UGA was pretty good, but Tennessee and UF sucked). The 2014 Missouri team that won the East lost to a 4-8 Indiana team early in the season, then lost 34-0 to UGA, and backed into the game because UGA got upset by UF a few weeks later.
 
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