Kiffin Failing? How to Tell (the entire series merged)

#76
#76
oklavol said:
I would prefer the fans would stop spinning this.

UT is 2-3 and appears to be on the path of another losing season. It's not what the coaches, the players, or the fans want. It is what it is. Doesn't mean Kiffin won't start turning things around next year. But this season has been a bust so far.
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+100,000,000

I agree that I think he will most likely turn it around, but it is hard for me to get all jacked up with the product that I am watching on the field this year...:ermm:
 
#77
#77
walkhard said:
:fireworks:Kiff has failed, the ut athletic dept has failed...phil is laughing under his breath...the university has a multi-million dollar pr debacle on its hands...Kiff blew his credability with the Meyer comments and the media hates him...his days are numbered..oh but yeah, we will have to go thru another multi-million dollar buy out...keep buying those tics and merch boys, we are going to have to pony up AGAIN! WH:fireworks:
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Urbie?? :crazy:


Great post! It's good to see some sense for a change.


cutnitclose said:
+100,000,000

I agree that I think he will most likely turn it around, but it is hard for me to get all jacked up with the product that I am watching on the field this year...:ermm:
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I don't know how anybody couldn't be jacked, great things are ahead.
 
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#78
#78
IM4TN said:
Urbie?? :crazy:


Great post! It's good to see some sense for a change.




I don't know how anybody couldn't be jacked, great things are ahead.
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True.. I guess I should have said that diffrently.. I meant it is hard for me to get excited watching our team do basically the same thing we did last year on the field.. I do agree that I think better times are ahead.. I'm not convinced they will be great (at least not yet), but they have to get better with the way this group recruits.. There is no doubt that are top notch in that department..
 
#79
#79
Excellent logic, Houston. Clear, concise points and well thought-out statements. Have to say I agree with pretty much everything you said.
 
#80
#80
MaryvilleGator said:
I believe the jury will be out on
Kiffen
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for a while. He has given the team more focus and spirit. i admire the limited penalties, and the running game is much improved. I think if you had a QB you could easily be 4-1. I am predicting 5-7 for this year and maybe 7-5 for next. The system will be in it's second year, you should see a big improvement overall, but, unless you get a good juco QB transfer, or Stephens morphs into something great you still have a one dimensional offense, and someone will need to help BB in the backfield next year.
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And I predict maybe by next year all the trolls will be able to spell Coach Kiffins name right.:angry:
 
#81
#81
VOL_in_Florida said:
My only concern is how long does CLK plan to stay here? What ties does he have to this team, this university and the people of East Tennessee? We hired outside of the family and I question his loyalty to us. I know I am a skeptic on this subject, but it just makes me uneasy about the future. I hope CLK stays and becomes a VOL in his heart, but right now..I don't know.:question:
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We hired outside the family?? Geez buddy, you need to come out of the hills and look at reality. Inbreeding does not promote success, either in genetics or sports.

Gawd I can't believe someone would put that statement in print. The rest of the nation would have a field day with us if that gets out!
 
#82
#82
ljeller said:
Excellent logic, Houston. Clear, concise points and well thought-out statements. Have to say I agree with pretty much everything you said.
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Thanks :hi:

I can't state as fact that Kiffin will get outstanding recruiting classes in the next few years or if these classes would then automatically result in the teams of our dreams.

I am just a enginerd, err, engineer that likes to look at data and find trends and then base my opinions on facts; instead of spouting off with something inane, when, in fact, my football career petered out in the 7th grade.

And the data so far says things look hopeful, if we are patient.
 
#83
#83
It's so weird. This only like the 3rd or 4th thread I have started. I feel the need to check on it every few hours and make sure it is okay and nobody is abusing it. :fool:

Keeping threads safe from trolls since 2009.
 
#85
#85
I’ve made a profession of “turnarounds”, acquiring failed or underachieving businesses and (with the help of my team of winners) transforming them into successful and profitable operations. My team of proven self motivated winners, successfully accomplished this numerous times by being consistent and applying the same principals. It required some time and a lot of hard work, but we never failed. Why? One has to begin by realizing that each business was a loser for fundamental reasons and were staffed by individuals that too easily accepted losing. Most were negative, blamed others for their failures and didn’t want to give the extra effort required to beat the competition. Their previous owner didn’t require that they give their best efforts. Consequently, they lacked a winning attitude, had little discipline and most were slackers. Sure, there were always a few who wanted to win, but they were so influenced by the losers they could not. The old regime would not pay the price for success and so we always let the entire group go so they could join our competition. I broke my rule once and later caught that person stealing. I think this is similar to what our new coaches’ face. It’ll take some time to get rid of the losers, bring in the winners, and instill a winning attitude. But, it will happen!
 
#87
#87
Houston Vol said:
You have missed my entire premise. Allow me to break it down for you.
1) Kiffin & Co. are going to go after the best recruits in the country - hard
2) If they are successful in getting them, UT will win big, period
3) coaching, smoaching (see brown, mack)
4) He is off to a damn good start, but not there yet

I am not claiming that my rather simplistic Rivals / Scout star rating analysis of Texas/Florida/USC recruiting would stand up to scientific scrutiny. No regression analyses were conducted, nor FORTRAN codes written. But it looks like a pretty good predictor to me.
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I think you are absolutely right that Kiffin is a great recruiter. However, recruiting helps but does not win championships. For example, Ron Zook was a great recruiter for Florida but a bad coach when it came to developing talent and preparing for gameday. I think you are overlooking the fact that just because you have talent does not always mean you are going to win. Look at FSU, they have way more talent according to Rivals/Scout than some of the teams they are losing to, but the talent is not coached up. I think the jury is still out on how good of a coach Lane is.
 
#88
#88
guys you all are killin me and not only that all this negative kiffin talk is going to scare recruits off..you dont think they look at this site? keep threads like this kiffin is the man and he will get us what we want...we just need to recruit and he is doing that...all you haters go f yourself
 
#89
#89
I think it takes about 3 years to bring a football program back. But that's based on the current talent on hand. Look at Urban Meyer. Instant success. I'm surprised that we /the staff at UT didn't want to look at some other coaches from other conferences such as Big 12, Big East, PAC 10, Big 10. Were there other posswibilities. I'd like to have seen the list. If a university has better than average talent and upgrade it within 2 years then we're back where we used to be-at least top 15. Here's the thing we need to remember,it takes great talent and great coaching/recruiting to win 10 games every season. I think as long as we win 8 (once in awhile) and 9 or better 80& of the time then we're in the top 10. The big players are the QB, WR's, running backs, tight ends and then offensive/defensive players.
 
#90
#90
rsg87gator said:
I think you are absolutely right that Kiffin is a great recruiter. However, recruiting helps but does not win championships. For example, Ron Zook was a great recruiter for Florida but a bad coach when it came to developing talent and preparing for gameday. I think you are overlooking the fact that just because you have talent does not always mean you are going to win. Look at FSU, they have way more talent according to Rivals/Scout than some of the teams they are losing to, but the talent is not coached up. I think the jury is still out on how good of a coach Lane is.
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Your gonna find some here that disagree with that post.

I agree that it takes more than just talent, to compete with the elite.

I have no doubt that CLK can recruit with UM, Saban, adn the others that fit this group.

UF and Bama will continue to bring in great players, as long as they have UM, and Saban. Player development, game planning, and coaching will be what it takes to beat the best. If you can get on the same talent level as they are.
 
#91
#91
Jaytrain5 said:
Boo! Propaganda!

Kiffin's stubborn...Stephens is a ginger-Staubach, and our staff is too dumb to put him in the game...

Monte's a has-been....The Tampa 2 is wiggity-wack compared to the 'Stanger....

Regards,

griffithmikeclr_.jpg
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Jaytrain is 'in the zone' today! :eek:lol: :eek:lol: :eek:lol:
 
#92
#92
cutnitclose said:
+100,000,000

I agree that I think he will most likely turn it around, but it is hard for me to get all jacked up with the product that I am watching on the field this year...:ermm:
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Look at it this way, if Fulmer was still here the future would be much dimmer. Hardesty would not be starting, Tahj Boyd would be redshirting, we would have a rotating QB carousel, there would be no Brown, Oku or Nuke. We would have been slaughtered by FL and AU with 3rd and Chavis at the helm. I could go on but why kill your buzz
 
#93
#93
rsg87gator said:
recruiting helps but does not win championships. For example, Ron Zook was a great recruiter for Florida but a bad coach when it came to developing talent and preparing for gameday. I think you are overlooking the fact that just because you have talent does not always mean you are going to win. Look at FSU, they have way more talent according to Rivals/Scout than some of the teams they are losing to, but the talent is not coached up. I think the jury is still out on how good of a coach Lane is.
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My fundamental premise is that if you are a top 40 BCS conference school that can attract top 3 talent year in and year out, good coaching will be a given, at least to the point that you can't screw up that much talent. Differentiating coaching (Saban) is not needed, just solid coaching. Talent determines the winner of most games. Top 20 classes (Auburn) beat Top 40 classes (S. Carolina). Top 3 classes (Florida) beat top 10classes (Georgia). Most independent observers agree that our staff, besides being excellent recruiters, are probably above average teachers and game day strategists, on balance. That leaves poor little Laney, who has been around Xs and Os all his life, and has plenty of solid recommendations from both his USC and NFL days if you would care to dig them up. We aren't too worried about our offensive brain trust. Is Lane the leader of men that we need, is he going to go on tilt at the wrong moment as you previously suggested, is he cool under pressure? What looks like arrogance from sunny Florida looks like supreme self-confidence in Knoxville. Cool under pressure? Check.

We are closer to this situation than the enemy. You and ten other SEC teams are hoping against hope for failure, yet we see rising GPAs, increasing disciplinary measures, zero points on the Fulmer Cup scoreboard, a team in the top ten in the country in fewest penalties, etc... Sounds like a leader to me. Even our own fan base is giving him hell about playing Nick Stevens and he looks us in the eye and says "STFU, I am the coach and Ocho Stinko is my QB. Now come yell like crazy Sat night, kickoff is at 7."

Bottom line - of course the jury is still out - we wouldn't need this thread if it wasn't (see title). But, so far all of the long term vital signs look promising. Your "bad coach" reference seems to still be tied up in all of the circus sideshow from the off season. You can't see any of the other signals that the program is sending out.

Your Ron Zook point is a very good one. Unfortunately, I don't have data from 1998-2001 to say how much talent Spurrier left for Zook. I do recall some criticism that Spurrier had let recruiting slide a bit toward the end of his tenure. Would you say that Florida's talent was among the top three in the country during the Zook years? If Zook is the exception to this rule, I would not be surprised. Ron Zook is a lying scumbag. I was at UT when he was the DB coach and we had the faxed playbook incident. Remember that? My brother worked at the Kinko's where it all went down.

Florida State is a bad example. As I have tried to point out, the basis of the premise is that if you have differentiating talent (something that applies only to USC, Florida and USC during the period 2002-2009) then it seems you have success at an very high level that is difficult to screw up. Lots of teams underachieve with good paper talent (Fla St, Georgia, ND, UT - back when we had talent)

By the way, I bet if I had data for the late 1980s and 1990s for Miami and Florida State, it would support my hypothesis quite nicely. :matrix:
 
#95
#95
Finally a positive thread about our coach and his choices! I am so sick of the bashing CLK threads about Crompton and Stephens that I could scream!
 
#97
#97
Houston Vol said:
Part One - The Plan

I'm not promising you how many wins, how many championships. I can't do that. I don’t know that. There are too many variables, but I can tell you this right now: No one is going to outwork us. No one is going to outwork me as a head coach and no one is going to outwork our staff that we put together. That's the promise I'm giving you, the wins will come after that.
Lane Kiffin, Introductory Press Conference

"Every coach I considered could get us eight, nine, 10 wins a year. But Lane was the one guy I felt had a plan to get us 12 or 13 wins and a shot at a national championship. I just thought he was unique."
Mike Hamilton

As we kind of went through the interviews, I kept going back to the recruiting component. The part that I really kept coming back to was his competitiveness as it related to recruiting and the recruiting process.”
Mike Hamilton

"As a recruiting coordinator, I’m excited to have all the tools necessary to recruit the best players in the country. Hard work, hard work. Outwork your opponent. There’s no one that will outwork us. No one. You better wake up early and go to bed late."
Ed Orgeron

The message we should take away is that UT did not hire a coach that would come in with today's version of the 90s run-and-shoot quick fix for our woeful offense (Malzahn/Leach). We are sacrificing short term pain for long term gain. Establishing a system come hell or high water. Focusing on recruiting. Building a foundation for success at the highest level.

next - Part Two - The Measuring Stick
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Wow. Sounds just like Ron Zook circa 2002.
 
#99
#99
volinasheville said:
Saban, Miles and Meyer were bad hires for the same reason. Ray Goff @UGA, Mike DuBose @Bammer and John Bunting at UNC, now those in family hires were brilliant.
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Well, Saban has yet to show he is faithful to any school or program and one can say the jury is still out on Meyer because of the swirlings about him jumping to ND on the first offer. However Miles is a different story, he had an opportunity to go to his alamater but chose to stay at LSU. However, one thing those three to have in common is they have won 4 NCs between them. What category will LK fall into? No one knows.
 
#100
#100
yep... 3 or 4 years from now we'll either be saying "I can believe we sat through a year of JC for this bum" or "2009 with JC was totally worth it to be here (wherever here is)"
 
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