Kiffin Covers All The Bases.

#152
#152
VolDad said:
Does your God send good people (Jews, Buddhist, etc) to HELL because they do not believe that Jesus is his son?
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Whether you like it or not, He's YOUR God too and being "good" really has nothing to do with it. Salvation comes from the grace of God through Jesus Christ and not by any "good works" we may do. If that were the case you could just buy your way into heaven. It's actually not very complicated on the surface.... Believe in Jesus as the son of God in your heart and you will be saved. Reject Jesus as the son of God and go to hell. The choice however is totally, completely yours. I don't claim to entirely understand how God works or why he allows bad things to happen to "good" people, but I do believe that Jesus is who he said he is. I actually dislike this analogy vehemently because it makes it sound like I believe ONLY because I'm afraid NOT to believe, which isn't the case at all but I'll use it for the sake of clarity... If I'm wrong I haven't really lost anything.... If YOU are wrong (assuming you don't believe in God...) you have lost EVERYTHING...
 
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#153
#153
bluetickhound16 said:
Whether you like it or not, He's YOUR God too and being "good" really has nothing to do with it. Salvation comes from the grace of God through Jesus Christ and not by any "good works" we may do. ...
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So Ghandi is in HELL and the mass murderer who ask for salvation, and believes that JC is the son of God, just before the switch is pulled is in Heaven?
 
#154
#154
bluetickhound16 said:
Whether you like it or not, He's YOUR God too and being "good" really has nothing to do with it. Salvation comes from the grace of God through Jesus Christ and not by any "good works" we may do. If that were the case you could just buy your way into heaven. It's actually not very complicated on the surface.... Believe in Jesus as the son of God in your heart and you will be saved. Reject Jesus as the son of God and go to hell. The choice however is totally, completely yours. I don't claim to entirely understand how God works or why he allows bad things to happen to "good" people, but I do believe that Jesus is who he said he is. I actually dislike this analogy vehemently because it makes it sound like I believe ONLY because I'm afraid NOT to believe, which isn't the case at all but I'll use it for the sake of clarity... If I'm wrong I haven't really lost anything.... If YOU are wrong (assuming you don't believe in God...) you have lost EVERYTHING...
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I don't mean to speak for the poster, but he obviously doesn't believe that it is his god, therefore, it is not. The OP made a comment about how thorough a job CLK is doing recruiting these guys. He didn't mean to start a holy war, and instead of making it a holy war, let's focus on what we can agree on, having a good time tomorrow night and praying, hoping, wishing, cheering, rooting, any and all that apply, that Tennessee beats VA Tech. :good!:
 
#155
#155
hatvol96 said:
King James would be shocked at how successful the work of fiction he commissioned is at controlling the masses.
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A famous statement by William Blake comes to mind when you say that. It goes something along the lines of: "If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed."
 
#156
#156
And, alas, this thread has officially turned into a debate of God, religion, beliefs, and most noticeably, egos. Let the flame-throwing and stoning commence!
 
#157
#157
Volunteer_Kirby said:
A famous statement by William Blake comes to mind when you say that. It goes something along the lines of: "If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed."
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That's why it's called faith. Not believing in God because in his infinite intelligence which created the universe, he just so happens not to fit into the very tiny box your mind can comprehend, does not, to me, constitute a very smart decision.
 
#158
#158
torchb said:
I don't mean to speak for the poster, but he obviously doesn't believe that it is his god, therefore, it is not. The OP made a comment about how thorough a job CLK is doing recruiting these guys. He didn't mean to start a holy war, and instead of making it a holy war, let's focus on what we can agree on, having a good time tomorrow night and praying, hoping, wishing, cheering, rooting, any and all that apply, that Tennessee beats VA Tech. :good!:
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Roger that.... I know I overstepped the boundries of what a CFB chatboard should be. I guess I'm too easily suckered into a religious debate whether it's the proper forum for one or not. I'll be there at the 'Dome tomorrow night with a bird's eye view of Va Tech's beatdown of BIBLICAL proportion:)
 
#159
#159
bluetickhound16 said:
Roger that.... I know I overstepped the boundries of what a CFB chatboard should be. I guess I'm too easily suckered into a religious debate whether it's the proper forum for one or not. I'll be there at the 'Dome tomorrow night with a bird's eye view of Va Tech's beatdown of BIBLICAL proportion:)
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You did not answer \/

VolDad said:
So Ghandi is in HELL and the mass murderer who ask for salvation, and believes that JC is the son of God, just before the switch is pulled is in Heaven?
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#160
#160
bluetickhound16 said:
I think Charles Stanley's church on the north side is pretty influential, but I get your point..... Atlanta has a lot of very vibrant churches. Honestly... other than the historical significance, Ebenezer has lost a lot of lustre..... It has become a grandstanding photo op for self serving politicians more than anything else in the past 20 years....
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Doesnt it depend on how you classify "Atlanta"?

Church of the Apostles, North Point and First Baptist Woodstock all have more money and political power represented within their congregants than First Baptist or Eddie Longs church (unless Tyler Perry is a member and puts them over the top with the money :)
 
#161
#161
VolDad said:
So Ghandi is in HELL and the mass murderer who ask for salvation, and believes that JC is the son of God, just before the switch is pulled is in Heaven?
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We do not know whether Ghandi apprehended the truth before he died, but from all indications, yep he is burning in hell.

Also the other question you pose is something the religious hypocrites of Jesus day struggled with. He told them the parable of the vineyard owner. You may want to look it up. God gets to choose who He shows mercy to and it does not depend on man.

Cannot believe the mods are leaving this in football. If I started this thread it would have been in the pub in about 20 secs.
 
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#162
#162
MikeHamiltonFan said:
We do not know whether Ghandi apprehended the truth before he died, but from all indications, yep he is burning in hell.

Also the other question you pose is something the religious hypocrites of Jesus day struggled with. He told them the parable of the vineyard owner. You may want to look it up. God gets to choose who He shows mercy to and it does not depend on man.

Cannot believe the mods are leaving this in football. If I started this thread it would have been in the pub in about 20 secs.
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Not your place to judge Ghandi.

Judge not... You should know the rest.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#163
#163
beavbullvol said:
Armchair, I'd challenge you to argue one of the fundamental laws of Quantum Physics.

Basically, it states that nothing can come from nothing.

Additionally, there is another law that states that all things are racing towards chaos (I oversimplify greatly for your sake).

My argument is simple. How did something come from nothing without a Divine Creator?

And how could all things racing towards chaos allow for your beloved atheistic Big Bang Theory?

If you can answer those upper level Physics questions, I suppose thou mightest persuade me.
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How was the Divine Creator created?
 
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#164
#164
walt2007 said:
That's what it all comes down to. See the poster who said he doesn't necessarily have a problem with the idea of God, just who the Bible says he is - because the God of the Bible is presumptuous enough to want to be involved in the lives of his cherished sons and daughters whom he loves more than we could ever comprehend, and so he has created this world and its rules to guide us toward him: "20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." (Romans 8:20, 21)
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So if God is "involved with the lives of his cherished sons and daughters," then let's talk about the 2004 tsunami. American evangelists are happy to credit God with curing them of a head cold through the power of prayer, but let an earthquake in the Indian Ocean wipe out a quarter of a million people and they're left to hemming and hawing about how nobody can understand the ineffable mind of God and his Plan. (Or maybe it's just that it was all brown people, and they don't count.)

The first problem that any mature Christian theology absolutely has to address is that, by all available evidence, God is NOT involved with the lives of his believers. They die at the same rate as everybody else, whether they're prayed for or not. Jesus promised that prayer could move mountains....and yet not only can nobody move mountains, nobody can even reliably heal the stomach flu with prayer. This isn't necessarily a fatal flaw in Christianity, but the first thing that people need to do is drop the pretense that God is "involved in their lives." He's involved in their everyday lives to the same extent that my four-year-old son's imaginary friend George is involved in my family's life.

A mature theology confronts this problem head-on, acknowledging that the worshipper is essentially sending prayers out into the void aimed at a functionally absentee God. The Tooth Fairy version of Christianity pretends that God is hanging out in the living room with the family helping out with everything they pray about. How can you give credit to God for for good things that happen and then give him a pass for things like tornados and Katrina and disease and the tsunami?
 
#165
#165
hatvol96 said:
King James would be shocked at how successful the work of fiction he commissioned is at controlling the masses.
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This is one of the most retarded statements in the history of Volnation. If it was a joke it would be funny, but I do believe he is serious.

The King James Bible was an English translation of multiple ancient source texts.

Whatever gets you through your life of drunken sadness. At least the fornication is kept to a minimum when no one wants to sleep with your wrinkly old body absent payment.
 
#167
#167
Vercingetorix said:
So if God is "involved with the lives of his cherished sons and daughters," then let's talk about the 2004 tsunami. American evangelists are happy to credit God with curing them of a head cold through the power of prayer, but let an earthquake in the Indian Ocean wipe out a quarter of a million people and they're left to hemming and hawing about how nobody can understand the ineffable mind of God and his Plan. (Or maybe it's just that it was all brown people, and they don't count.)

The first problem that any mature Christian theology absolutely has to address is that, by all available evidence, God is NOT involved with the lives of his believers. They die at the same rate as everybody else, whether they're prayed for or not. Jesus promised that prayer could move mountains....and yet not only can nobody move mountains, nobody can even reliably heal the stomach flu with prayer. This isn't necessarily a fatal flaw in Christianity, but the first thing that people need to do is drop the pretense that God is "involved in their lives." He's involved in their everyday lives to the same extent that my four-year-old son's imaginary friend George is involved in my family's life.

A mature theology confronts this problem head-on, acknowledging that the worshipper is essentially sending prayers out into the void aimed at a functionally absentee God. The Tooth Fairy version of Christianity pretends that God is hanging out in the living room with the family helping out with everything they pray about. How can you give credit to God for for good things that happen and then give him a pass for things like tornados and Katrina and disease and the tsunami?
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If I thought for a moment your question was a serious one it would be fun to discuss the answer.

Death is universal and understood as the consequence of the fall theologically by Christians so using the death of Christians as evidence of God's absence is amusing. You may want to read the Bible sometime before you attempt to trash it. Healing is not something you can demand from God, and in fact when Simon tries to manipulate God he is cursed. What Jesus says is that when you are fully yielded to the will of God, miraculous things can happen. That is experientially the story of many people over the last 2000 years when most of civilization was created by people who followed His teachings. Enjoy a post modern world where people believe they are animals and behave as such, it is enough to make me desire to be an Essene and watch your world burn...too much Jonah in me I am afraid.
 
#168
#168
MikeHamiltonFan said:
If I thought for a moment your question was a serious one it would be fun to discuss the answer.

Death is universal and understood as the consequence of the fall theologically by Christians so using the death of Christians as evidence of God's absence is amusing. You may want to read the Bible sometime before you attempt to trash it. Healing is not something you can demand from God, and in fact when Simon tries to manipulate God he is cursed. What Jesus says is that when you are fully yielded to the will of God, miraculous things can happen. That is experientially the story of many people over the last 2000 years when most of civilization was created by people who followed His teachings. Enjoy a post modern world where people believe they are animals and behave as such, it is enough to make me desire to be an Essene and watch your world burn...too much Jonah in me I am afraid.
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My question is not only a serious one, but really, it's the only serious one. And as usual, you've got nothing except to deny that the deaths of a quarter of a million people mean anything because it's all part of God's Plan.

If you can't pray for health, what can you pray for? Basically you're acknowledging the prayer is meaningless, and does nothing. "Miraculous things can happen," you say, but only if nobody is looking and there's no evidence left behind. Come on -- God loves us more than we can imagine, right? and he's totally all-powerful and all-knowing, right? and the Bible says that faith can move mountains, right? Then how come you could sit there on the floor for fifteen years and pray for God to flip a light switch on and he would never do it? Why is God so all-powerful and yet so unwilling to do anything at all that might be construed as anything other than random action?
 
#169
#169
Addendum: I assume you would crap your pants over an abortion. But 230,000 people who were killed by a giant wave counts as just the "consequence of the fall theologically by Christians so using the death of Christians as evidence of God's absence is amusing." A dead fetus is awful; a quarter of a million actual people dying is just "the consequence of the fall."
 
#171
#171
VolDad said:
Does your God send good people (Jews, Buddhist, etc) to HELL because they do not believe that Jesus is his son?
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No he doesnt, they send themselves because they do not choose to believe in the one true God and accept His son as their savior. Hell was created for the devil and his angels. Everyone else chooses hell by not choosing Jesus. It's your choice.
 
#172
#172
MikeHamiltonFan said:
This is one of the most retarded statements in the history of Volnation. If it was a joke it would be funny, but I do believe he is serious.

The King James Bible was an English translation of multiple ancient source texts.

Whatever gets you through your life of drunken sadness. At least the fornication is kept to a minimum when no one wants to sleep with your wrinkly old body absent payment.
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This right here is a big reason why Christians are hated.

The hypocrisy and name-calling in this post is what gives us a bad name.

You should be ashamed.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#174
#174
MikeHamiltonFan said:
If I thought for a moment your question was a serious one it would be fun to discuss the answer.

Death is universal and understood as the consequence of the fall theologically by Christians so using the death of Christians as evidence of God's absence is amusing. You may want to read the Bible sometime before you attempt to trash it. Healing is not something you can demand from God, and in fact when Simon tries to manipulate God he is cursed. What Jesus says is that when you are fully yielded to the will of God, miraculous things can happen. That is experientially the story of many people over the last 2000 years when most of civilization was created by people who followed His teachings. Enjoy a post modern world where people believe they are animals and behave as such, it is enough to make me desire to be an Essene and watch your world burn...too much Jonah in me I am afraid.
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as a 36 year old cancer surviver with two bone marrow transplants at duke in the last two years,let me tell you...GOD is real and set with me. I prayed for him to take me, instead he lifted the pain and a total relaxing and peace came over me. I laid in the bed for 40 days with out food and lost 60lbs of muscel. It is your choice to beleive, this is some of the grand plan. Dont let the devil lie,cheat or steal this from you.your life will become awsome.PHIL 4:13
 
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